It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Deficit is biggest as share of economy since 1945

page: 2
9
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Hush mate - that sounds suspiciously like socialism
and you know how some people feel about that!

You know, a system where everyone contributes as they are able, and collectively reap the rewards instead of the system where everyone works as hard as they can just to make 1% of the population even richer.

Joking aside (or semi-joking) I have wondered for years why more citizens don't look at and accept this economic model - it's not communism, it's just common sense.



It's actually a democratic yet tribal system of government where the tribe itself recognizes the benefit to everyone of sharing the resources, the business ventures and profits off of them, through sound management and hard work and a fair distribution of the proceeds.

They vote in honest fair open elections of who is going to run the Tribal Corporate Enterprises, who is going to oversee the Tribal Infrastucture, and who is going to be the Leader.

One of the problems with our 'democratic' system is it involves too many non-elected appointees, the Fed the head of the Government Departments, are people making the most important day to day decisions but aren't elected at all.

This is where our democratic system really just becomes a corrupt form of cronyism and the system breaks down.

We elect the person to function as cheif executive but not the person who decides the education cirriculum or runs health services, or social services or the military or the CIA etc.

So in reality our elected government is not so elected at all.




posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:10 AM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Lets not forget those corporate "luminaries" who use lobbyists to manipulate the system for their own ends, usually to the detriment of the populace who are conned into thinking that real change can or is happening, whilst the shysters who run the government laugh all the way to the bank with their ill-gotten gains.

I really do despair sometimes, but every day I see signs that people (here at least) are slowly but surely waking up to the reality of life since WW2 and the propaganda they have been force fed through the MSM at the behest of government and corporations.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:14 AM
link   
To be totally honest with you Proto....

I have come to realize that this economy, while working on a superficial level, is a big fake scam that is solely intended to placate the masses with bread and circuses.

The way that our joke of an "economy" is now run, actually since Nixon removed us from the pseudo-gold standard, is no different than a system of credits and debits.
Real wealth is not even a freaking concept, because we have allowed treaties, charters, titles, codes, and statutes to rob us of any wealth found in this country, which was conquered by our forefathers....

By committing mass genocide against a peace loving people that had ALREADY developed highly civilized forms of community, division of wealth, jurisprudence, and hierarchy.
They understood, inherently, the term carrying capacity and massive hoards of staples necessary for survival were readily available by walking around and hunting it down, or planting and harvesting.

And to be honest with you, not a whole lot changed from that lifestyle, other than those completely FAKE treaties, charters, etc..., until about the 40's.
Right about the time Operation Paperclip began, ironically enough.

How can anyone complain that social services bankrupt a community when people pay taxes?

You want to know why?
Because we are too busy paying interest to people with fake money, so that they can gain power, not wealth, through the accumulation of FAKE money.

The entire game is smoke and mirrors and the only possible way out is to have enough people realize how incredibly FAKE the entire scam has become.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:20 AM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Interesting headlines concerning the deficit especially considering, coincidentally we also happened to have been at war for the longest time in US history.

And that the US spends more per capita on defense than any other nation in the world ?

How do we pay for these wars ? Especially after 10 years ? It certainly has to come from somewhere.

Is a war against a group of people with nary a a tank, air force or a navy, armed with IED's made from our own bombs, pickup trucks, AK-47's and RPG really require 10 years ?

Perhaps there is some truth to the entire concept of the Military Industrial Complex that both Dwight Eisenhower and JFK warned us about 50 years ago ?

The Rothschilds Banking empire began during the Napoleonic wars by lending to governments in order to fund wars primarily with the collateral of these loans being the tax revenues of the Nation's Govt.

That is exactly why the Federal "Reserve" bank and their collection agency called the IRS (Internal Ripoff Service) came to be even though the US Constitution forbade it.

So no, there is no intent of ever paying these deficits down. For in essence It's all a big Ponzi scheme. The tax revenues pay the bankers, keeping them happy rolling in dough ( Look at Goldman Sachs bonuses), and who are more than willing to lend us more money with interest.....to further finance our wars.

Until people figure that this is the root cause and resulting effect of our current fiscal crisis, it will be business as usual. Presidential Election year after Presidential Election year I am afraid.....



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:24 AM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


I agree that it's all bsaed on imaginary debtis and credits that are really just bleeps on a computer screen and entries in a ledger...but... and it's a big but...

Notions of debt are used to basically make the debtor feel beholden to the creditor.

So our government is in essence conspiring to make us all feel indebted, to international sources, who allegedly loan us the money to pay for amongst other things the government spends on, social services and defense.

Of course what happens when you can't pay back one of your own creditors, you have to make some kind of compromise or risk being labelled 'bad'.

So in a lot of ways it really is just the International Elite and their Corporate Enterprises making us feel like as a nation we have no choice but to compromise, since we can't pay our own debts.

Join this international body, join that International body, give up this portion of sovereignty accept this portion of international control and compromise is the presumed trade off for being 'hopelessly' in debt with no way to repay it.

So debt is really being used as a weapon to effect compromise and change on a global scale, that doesn't actually serve us or any other country particuarlly well, just the Corporations and the Shadow Government who want total power of us all through notions of debt and their control of the resources ours and other governments sold them for a song and a dance.

We often joke about the Native Americans selling Manhattan for 14.00 in cheap trinkets, yet ultimately it looks like Americans will sell their sovereignty to a International group of Bankers and Corporations for imaginary credits and ledger entries worth absolutely nothing at all.


edit on 15/2/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Lets not forget those corporate "luminaries" who use lobbyists to manipulate the system for their own ends, usually to the detriment of the populace who are conned into thinking that real change can or is happening, whilst the shysters who run the government laugh all the way to the bank with their ill-gotten gains.

I really do despair sometimes, but every day I see signs that people (here at least) are slowly but surely waking up to the reality of life since WW2 and the propaganda they have been force fed through the MSM at the behest of government and corporations.



The good news is more and more people are waking up to it.

The bad news is the trillions of dollars we have been dumping into defense, and defense research and development has left a very entrenched corrupt government and it's armed henchmen armed with an array of weaponry a revolutionary war musket or even illegally modified AK-47 is going to have a hard time standing up too.

We have created the near perfect beast, and it get's angry enough when it's not worshipped, it's going to get pretty ugly when it feels genuinely threatened and uglier still if it's openly attacked.

People, all people and Americans especially are going to have to pay a price for being so asleep at the wheel, laxadaisacal and trusting in this corrupt and often murderous system that is ultimately going to cost far more than dollars and cents.

Until people start learning from history and standing up to confront lying media, politicians and corporations that want to repeat it's mistakes over and over again at the onset of when they first start making them, we are going to just continue on in a very violent and destructive cycle that takes us no where the hard way I fear.

Great posts, thanks for joining in.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:37 AM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Completely 100% agreed Proto...

That was more or less my intent with the mention of Operation Paperclip.
The world that I live in is the Fourth Reich and growing and a large part of that is due to "the economy stupid".
(God that meme killed me during the election. I spittled a bit in my mouth every time I overheard some talking head utter that same mental fragment about the FAKE economy over and over, anyhow)

We are at war with fascism and have been well... since 2500 years ago.

These guys are smart, but ruthless, sociopaths with no remorse.

It is like TPTB are robots programmed with a singular goal, no different than a colony of ants.

And debt is now, and has been since the inception of the IMF, being used as a weapon.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:59 AM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


One of the inherent dangers in armed conflict is that these are the original things that came out of organized war:

1. Debt, if you were conquered by an invading army and your life was spared you owed a debt to the soldier who decided not to impale you on their sword and spear, and the king and country that led them to your door and breast.

2. This almost always led to slavery, your spared life is now forfiet and forever in the debt of the person and nation that spared it. So slavery as an institution was born of war.

3. Money/Currency/Coins were in fact first invented and used to pay armies in the field because it was impractible for them to barter and trade on the march.

4. The market system and prostitution were immediately invented to relieve soldiers of their coin, with the first marktes and prostitutes appearing next to army camps.

Prior to that everyone bartered and traded products, crops and services, where you would simply get paid the things you didn't have or need from people you preformed a service for, whether you needed corn, or wood, or cloth, or beer or what not.

So basically our governments who are perpetually at war and all about war, and extolling the virtue of war, do so because it creates debt on multiple levels in myriad ways and then allows for control of everything through a market system based on currency the government issues and controls and then taxes you back so they have to provide you with less resources, goods and services for your labor and loyalty to it.

The more debt your government is in, the more you expect to be taxed, the less you expect to have for yourself, so it's a very thrifty system of hording for control, through violence, that creates and leads to debt, a debt taken out in your name, that you are presumed to owe.

A debt should you fail to pay or choose to question will get you labelled as 'bad', and not pulling your fair share, and entreaties to go live somewhere else we plan to invade anyway to put you back in the state's debt!

Go figure.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 12:35 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Just a thought, but it would be interesting to construct a "debt pyramid" diagram based on maslows hierarchy of needs, showing the different types and levels of debt and their impact on society, or even perceived impact according to the debtee, and then another one from the point of view of the "lender" or creator of debt.

In fact the more I think about it, the more of an interesting exercise it appears to me.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 12:44 PM
link   
President Obama used his first press conference of the year Tuesday to defend his new budget plan against critics who say it doesn’t move quickly enough to cut the federal government’s massive deficit and fails to confront the difficult choices needed to reform ballooning entitlement programs.

“You guys are pretty impatient. If something doesn’t happen today, then the assumption is it isn’t going to happen,” Obama said. “My goal here is to actually solve the problem….It’s not to get a good headline on the first day.”

For more information...

www.politico.com...


Well it seems Obama is going on the defensive again, wonder what cuts will actually come to fruition, my feeling is it won't be enough since our debt is too out of control, we have a long road to hoe.

It amazes me how fast the criticism comes, he barely got the words out of his mouth, will be watching to see how much support he gets in trying to make these cuts, of course when most of them get blocked they will blame Obama, passing the buck is all that gets done these days.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 02:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Aquarius1
 


I tend to wonder what problem he imaines he is solving by projecting a 'decificit savings' over the course of 10 years, when at a maiximum if reelected he is in office for another 5 budget cycles.

It's a voodoo of numbers where there is no telling where the heck they even get the numbers that they base these rediculous projections on, in a process he can't even be involved in over the course of time the numbers are supposed to run out, because he can't legally hold office that long.

Honestly I think everyone involved in the process just needs tarred and feathered until we start getting some straight answers out of them.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 02:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Aquarius1
 


I tend to wonder what problem he imagines he is solving by projecting a 'decificit savings' over the course of 10 years, when at a maiximum if reelected he is in office for another 5 budget cycles


Proto what is the point of 10 years, don't think we have that long, there needs to be immediate cuts, like tomorrow, these subsidies to big farmer, oil and pharma could be stopped now, the sick part is those corporations don't need it, when is the last time the government subsided me or you?.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 02:38 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


There is no hope of recovery under the current Federal Reserve controled system. If we had trustworthy leaders, we could immediately fire the Fed and take over the issuance of our own currency. But we don't and we won't.

All we can do on a personal level is prepare for the fall of the current economic system, IMO. Abandon dollar based currency, accumulate long term food and water storage, buy silver coins, guns and ammo. Above all reach out to loved ones and hold them close. Really bad times are comming.


edit on 15-2-2011 by romanmel because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 03:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


There is no hope of recovery under the current Federal Reserve controled system. If we had trustworthy leaders, we could immediately fire the Fed and take over the issuance of our own currency. But we don't and we won't.


The current system certainly can't be fixed, with 14 trillion in debt and only 3 trillion in actual currency in circulation it's a false debt to begin with.

They have loaned out 4 times more than they have.

So as a result I don't think it's hopeless once people just want to employ some basic common sense and stop listening to the conventional wisdom of the politically correct media and the lying politicians.

As Aquarius1 points out they don't like to be truly questioned even on softball questions because they truly have no real answers to explain a way their frauds and crimes.

People will wise up, and yes growing pains are often that, painful, but I remain optimistic and convinced that the people will rise up to the challenge that awaits them.

Right now the biggest problem that faces us is the morality of the task.

The forefathers clearly wanted us armed to stand up to government and they clearly warned it would try to grow itself to an all intrusive and controlling body, and they clearly wanted us to water the tree of liberty by cutting off those unneeded branches in a process that might require blood be shed.

Right now many people think that wronger than what the government is doing, but the number who see a virtue in it grows every day.

In the end there are only a couple thousand people controlling and holding this system together at the top and a very small group in control of them.

So they are far more vulnerable than one thinks, and if the smoke and mirrors stop working they are going to have to fire off everything they have and run for their lives.

There is in reality no reason why the people can't win and change it all, just the reasons frightened people make up to explain away why they don't want to try and don't want anyone else to try either.

That day is coming though when people are going to, and hopefully we each do what's right no matter what the cost of doing so when that day comes.


edit on 15/2/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)

edit on 15/2/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 03:38 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I once heard a smart man say that "being ethical means doing the right thing every time".

That is an ambiguous statement bordering on pith, but it does carry some value relative to our current situation.

Because this will all blow up. The system is designed to blow up. We are told this when CNN jokingly refers to the economy as a "house of cards". (more like a house of cards that doesn't even exist)

When our economy blows up, just as it almost did back in 08, we will be faced with a choice.

I wonder if we will make the ethical decision?



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 04:01 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I hope and pray you are right on this one, ProTrav. We do have a well armed society. We can hope that many would fight rather than give in to tyrants. It CANNOT be reformed within the current system, IMO. The last time a president issued non-Fed issued currency, he was killed within that year (1963):

www.john-f-kennedy.net...

The international banksters are ruthless. No president since has had the fortitude to stand against the Federal Reserve.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 04:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I hope and pray you are right on this one, ProTrav. We do have a well armed society. We can hope that many would fight rather than give in to tyrants. It CANNOT be reformed within the current system, IMO. The last time a president issued non-Fed issued currency, he was killed within that year (1963):

www.john-f-kennedy.net...

The international banksters are ruthless. No president since has had the fortitude to stand against the Federal Reserve.


I suggest watching Burn Notice, now in it's fourth season, the intriquing often hearthbreaking and humurous tale of a burned (fired) CIA operative, living in Miami trying to get his own job back.

You too can learn how to turn every day ordinary household items into effective weapons for all most any season or reason.

But the truth is our greatest weapons our own minds and resolve, and that's why the media and the politicians try so hard to fill them with crap, rule them through emotions like fear, and withhold pertinent and salient facts to speak lie after lie after falsehood after falsehood.

They are great at convincing people day is night, war is peace, hate is love, fear is hope etc.

Partially because people are just frightened of what they will have to responsibly do if they reject the lie being offered.

Many wars our won and lost before a shot is even fired, because people don't have the resolve to fight them or assume it's a lost caused.

Regardless no one should go quietly into that good night, and should rage against the dying of a nation.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 04:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I once heard a smart man say that "being ethical means doing the right thing every time".

That is an ambiguous statement bordering on pith, but it does carry some value relative to our current situation.

Because this will all blow up. The system is designed to blow up. We are told this when CNN jokingly refers to the economy as a "house of cards". (more like a house of cards that doesn't even exist)

When our economy blows up, just as it almost did back in 08, we will be faced with a choice.

I wonder if we will make the ethical decision?


Did it all blow up or did they just want us to believe it was about to blow up.

Could they have been using fear of loss, to sell us, the one thing we really don't want or need, except when we fear it's about to suddenly be taken away.

Fear of loss is a powerful sales tool called 'take away'.

Because we have no ready alternative for their system, we fear them suddenly taking that system away, and then fight for them to perpetuate it.

Like many notions of God the illusion is made more real through the negatives the belief it can destruct and cause horrible deprivation and destruction if it does, this fear of the systsem collapsing is often the only thing that gives it any virtue at all and any realness at all.

So yes please be advised if we stop printing phony paper money attached to nothing of value through a dishonest system of credits and debits and interest, then the banks will close, the stores will too, so will the gas stations, and everyone will starve and the Army will have to patrol the streets.

You don't want that to happen so believe in and support the system...

Or else.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:07 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Be sure. There is a fine line between reasoned optimism and denial of the obvious.

I see the country in worse condition than I have witnessed in my 64 years.

Yet I see no massive crowds in the streets protesting. Precious few even complain in public.

If not now, when?



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Be sure. There is a fine line between reasoned optimism and denial of the obvious.

I see the country in worse condition than I have witnessed in my 64 years.

Yet I see no massive crowds in the streets protesting. Precious few even complain in public.

If not now, when?






I have seen it degrade steadily but predictably during my 46 years of life here in these United States and the optimism is not that the people will rally to save it. People never want saved, and they never want to save themselves...go figure.

The optimism is in myself, and others, who will dust of their rusty scabbards and ride out in the 11th hour to do battle and win they day, get the girls, and really big endorsement deals with Nike!

Did you know Nke was the Roman God of victory!

So see it all has a happy ending.

Well for me anyway.

Not so sure about everyone else, but I am working on it.


edit on 15/2/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
9
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join