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Everett Harris, 89yrs, tells of his UFO sighting during WW2

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posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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Before their debriefing session, the young pilot asked his wingman, who he only knew briefly, "Are you going to say anything about what we saw this morning?" The wingman's response was, "Hell no! If we do, they'll think we've lost it and we won't fly anymore."



Just a short piece but I have great admiration for these old people who decide to talk. Spill the beans, get it off their chests, give the fingers to the MIB maybe!! This guy tells of what he saw with his wingman over Germany during WW11.
I am NOT thinking Tesla here BTW.....8)...lol

Rest of story here.....

Source
edit on 15-2-2011 by annella because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-2-2011 by annella because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-2-2011 by annella because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by annella
 


You might want to change your heading...at the moment it reads '...during WW Eleven, not WWII.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:50 AM
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reply to post by spikey
 


You beat me to it, I was just about to say. 'World War Eleven, when did that happen?' LOL

Good article though :-)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:53 AM
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"Harris said he could clearly see rivets on them, but no source of propulsion"



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:54 AM
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My PC must be alien... I get the same numerals pushing the number one, twice! So Ive gone for 2. What a hoot!

Anyways, is he not a gorgeous old man? Wish he was my grandaddy. Would be wonderful to have a grandfather with such tales to tell. And at 89 to decide to come clean is just so special, he obviously had this on his mind for a long time bless him!



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by annella
 


I wish more of these guys would come forwards.

Good story, typical of what many, many pilots saw during the war.

Interesting that he said that he could clearly see rivets on the spheres...that would imply a terrestrial or human made craft, rather than ET made.

Perhaps the Nazi efforts to build anti gravity craft are actually true, either that or our own side had them way back then.

If the latter is true, that has monumental implications for society. It means that everything we've been told about...pretty much everything really, at least since 1945 is a total fabrication.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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what this man saw back then was a nazy replica of some recovered alien ship!
WHEN THE REAL ALIENS WOULD START "ARGUING" ABOUT HUMANS AND TO WHOM THEY BELONG , THAT'S WHEN WE'LL SEE SOME "INTERESTING THINGS" (shouldn't be long now! 10-20 years max !
)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:10 AM
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Mr Harris is not sure what it was, so stating it was a Nazi replica of a captured alien ship may be a wee bit off target.

One thing is for sure, no 89 yr old is gonna look for fame at that age, living in a nursing home and in the depth of his winter years. And what a wonderful face he has!



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by annella
One thing is for sure, no 89 yr old is gonna look for fame at that age, living in a nursing home and in the depth of his winter years. And what a wonderful face he has!


Who knows. My 92 year old grandmother is a compulsive liar. Has been for years. Anything for a bit of attention. Not saying that this dude is lying. Just think that you're making a big assumption that people won't lie just because they're old. People lie at all ages. I'd say that old people tend to exaggerate many of their old stories. My grandmothers stories about the blitz make it sound like she lived through an intergalactic war. She lived in Essex, not even close to the east end!



No disrespect to the old digger, but many sweet faced old people are full of bs. And why wait until your 89? The MIB are hardly gonna take somebody out for a story with this little detail. Was he still flying in his 80's? If not, why hold onto the story this long? Nothing to fear after you give your wings back. It's an interesting story for a low circulation rag no? I'd print it. He sure looks a cool old fella.

The rivets being visible sure is interesting. He must have gotten very, very close.

Star for ya Annella.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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Thank you lazernation, now I wont feel like such a jerk with this post.

I have a few problems with Everetts story as told in the article however I believe overzealous reporting of a 65 year old event might factor in with an old fighter pilots natural tendency to embellish and exaggerate in making Everetts story sound so suspect. It would help if dates and places were included, I believe its very possible that the writer purposefully omitted anything specific hoping to make fact checking impossible ( no mention of squadron or mission specifics out of three pages writtin by Everett describing the encounter is a huge red flag)

I believe the easy part is the physical description regarding the UFO's




two spherical objects, each bigger than a single-engine plane


and



Harris said he could clearly see rivets on them, but no source of propulsion.


Rivets are a very terrestrial invention and as this was the early jet age there were a number of Luftwaffe jet and rocket powered aircraft that would show no obvious source of propulsion for a pilot who had never seen anything other than a glider fly without a prop.


ME-163 Komet


ME-262 Schwalbe

The spherical and larger than a single engine plane description isnt necessarily odd either, the description could fit anything from a barrage or meteorological balloons to an ME-163 Komet rocket plane and a dozen forgotten "wonderweapons" in between.

I think the photos below hold the inspiration behind Everett's "Mystery Spheres"


Getty Image Women making barrage balloons in a German factory, circa 1943






Here is where it gets very sketchy...



Before their debriefing session, the young pilot asked his wingman, who he only knew briefly, "Are you going to say anything about what we saw this morning?" The wingman's response was, "Hell no! If we do, they'll think we've lost it and we won't fly anymore."


One way you can guarantee to be grounded and possibly court-martialed would be to knowingly conspire to omit intelligence details from a contact report. While the nonsense of pilots not reporting UFO's in fear of being persecuted is deeply engrained in the modern saucer mythos is just that, nonsense, this statement is absurd. The allied mindset was that Germany had developed and fielded weaponry that was straight out of the Flash Gordon movie serial. Supersonic missiles that flew to space and back, rocketplanes that would still rival the climbrate of any modern jet flying today, jet aircraft that flew faster than the gun turrets could traverse. In short incredible technology that the intelligence officers sought to glean every bit of information possible and who would have taken Everett's spherical objects sighting gravely seriously.

I also question Everett's account that places him and only one other aircraft together to witness the UFO. Allied aircraft flew 1000 strong late in the war. Tactical formations ( the unit size that operational plans developed around) were a fighter group which in turn was made up of 3 fighter squadrons of 24 aircraft, 16 of which were expected to be operational at any time.

The tactical element further broke down into 4 flights of 4 aircraft and then into lead and wingman. Fighter tactics and doctrine were geared around the fighter squadron so anytime the squadron was broken into individual flights it was a mistake somebody would have to answer for as the integrity of the squadron was compromised. While not unheard of, it was a potentially fatal error to become separated and allow the formation to break up and standard doctrine at the time would be to start yelling for friendly help the moment you found your flight broken up and if you couldn't rejoin you would run for home rather than risk being caught by the luftwaffe without the supporting cover of the other aircraft.

Another oddity is Everett and his wingman's reaction to the spheres. A combat pilot who sights an unknown aircraft 20 yards off his wing in enemy territory that takes the time to make sign language small talk with his wingman is going to have a very short career and breaking into something a few yards off your wing is a habit that will kill you as well. I would expect them to take immediate evasive action, gain separation and after having decided it wasn't friendly they would turn their guns into the unknown craft and press the attack. Absolutely the last thing would be to react as described in Everett's story. Once again, it fits in well with what we expect from modern UFO lore but their reactions make little sense in light of their training and fighter doctrine of the time.

Up until the last few years that would be the end of it and we would be left with another UFO story amongst thousands, however this is the information age and even though the author either purposefully or negligently gave no specific details to pin down we have a picture of Everetts aircraft and for somebody with an interest in WW2 aviation that is more than enough to get quite a bit more.

Both the aircraft in the photo and the model Everett is holding share the same livelry and markings so its a safe bet that was his plane.





The P-51D with a yellow nose and tail with the E9 mark positively identifies Everett's aircraft as part of the 361st Fighter Group, 376th fighter squadron aka "the Yellowjackets".


376th Patch

Interestingly, the 361st was somewhat famous and the available records are surprisingly complete however there is little mention of Everett. After digging a bit I believe I know why.

Lets start here...





(L-R) Yellow 3, Lt. Herbert G. Spencer (3 Ju52s destroyed); Yellow 2, Lt. Donald W. Jones (1 unidentified destroyed); Yellow Leader, Lt. George R. Vanden Heuval (2 FW190s and 1Me410 destroyed plus 1 JU52 damaged) and Yellow 4, Lt. Lewis P. Chadwick (3 Ju52s destroyed). F/O Everett E. Harris (extreme right) was one of several replacement pilots in late April.


O’Connell Stories

Here we see young Everett looking every bit the killer the Army Air Core trained him to be. Of interest here is Everett's rank of Flight Officer his status as a replacement pilot and lack of aircraft assignment ( see others Yellow 3, Yellow Lead etc.. This means he just arrived from training in the States, was green as grass and wasn't getting near combat in an aircraft for some time to come.

Next we have some unit history, it seems the 361st were busy in the month of april, 1945.



Constituted as 361st Fighter Group on 28 Jan 1943. Activated on 10 Feb 1943. Joined Eighth AF in England in Nov 1943..... Flew last combat mission on 20 Apr 1945. Returned to the US in Nov. Inactivated on 10 Nov 1945.


361st Fighter Group

Here we have a more complete accounting of the 361st during April 1945




April 1945

April 4th: A target escort mission to Parchim airfield, in support of 2nd Air Division B-24s, witnessed what would be the Group's last aerial encounters with Luftwaffe fighters. The bombers were attacked three times by 30 Me262s but, even so, 374th pilot Lt. James T. Sloan claimed one destroyed, while others of both the 374th and 375th claimed another 12 Me262s damaged, for no loss.

April 6th: Following rumours of a return to England, orders from 8th AF HQ confirmed that the 361st would move back to its former station at Little Walden. The move began with the transfer of the advance party.

April 9th: Advance party established at F-165. The last mission flown from Belgium, an uneventful escort mission to Lechfeld, took off from 181-B and landed at Little Walden.

April 10th: The Group was transferred from VIII FC to the 65th FW, 2nd Air Division. C-47s and C-46s moved heavier equipment to F-165.

April 12th: Road convoy departed 181-B for Le Havre and returned to the UK via LST ships.

April 15th: L/Col. Roy B. Caviness assumed command of the Group and Station.

April16th: A split mission saw one section of the 361st escorting 2nd AD B-24s to Landshut marshalling yards while the second strafed Kircham, Reichersburg, Pocking and Muhldorf airfields. 17 E/A were destroyed and five damaged. However, Lts. Delmar R. Ford and Russell E. Kenoyer of the 376th were KIA.

April 17th: Another split mission called for one section of the Group to escort 2nd AD heavies attacking rail targets in Czechoslovakia while the second attacked Pilsen and Eger airfields. Six E/A were destroyed and seven damaged, but Lt. Joseph B. Wolfe of the 375th was KIA.

April 20th: An uneventful target escort mission to Zwiesel was the Group's last operational mission of WW2.


There is no mention of Everett in the order of battle on April 16th, the 376th was fully committed and he would have been in the thick of it as a replacement amongst a group of short time vets. The only losses I've seen for the 376th in March or April were 2 pilots on the 16th and as Everett is described in a passing byline as "one of several replacement pilots in late April" it is most likely he was slotted to replace either Lt. Delmar R. Ford or Lt.Russell E. Kenoyer.

As a footnote, I found this photo from July,1945 interesting as well.



Notice the E9 V aircraft in the background is described as being flown by Lt. Kenneth J. Scott, not our good man F/O Everett Harris. The 361st order of battle credits Lt. Scott with the following action on March 30, 1945..During an anti-jet patrol in the Meldorf-Hollingstedt area, Lt. Kenneth J. Scott, Jr. of the 376th destroyed an Me262.

So we know Lt. Scott was flying the E9 V aircraft from presumably 3/45 through 7/45. We know that the 361st last combat sorties were 4/20/45 and that Everett joined in "late" 4/45, claims to have piloted the E9 V aircraft however we have photos of a senior pilot having claim to the same aircraft and photographic evidence during the same time frame. The group was officialy stood down on V.E. day May 8, 1945, and the unit was disbanded and returned stateside without the aircraft November 4th 1945.

I believe in light of this information along with the oddities in the narrative, Everett arrived in theatre to late to see combat, was possibly never assigned an aircraft and thus the whole story is very likely an embellishment, exaggeration or fraud.

I'll try digging a bit more, if anyone is interested the 361st maintains a website and message board where you can contact the surviving members and group historian here..

361st FG

Hope this helps..








edit on 15-2-2011 by Drunkenparrot because: Syntax correction.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by annella
 
Nice thread. I have no problem at all accepting the reports of foos and spheres back in the skies of WWII. Western newspapers published articles about them and guessed that they were some else's 'secret weapons.' Pilots reported them too...

This one sounds like Harris' account...



This is a report from '42 of a 'cigar-shaped' craft..




Based on the article, the claims of Everett make me wonder how accurate they are? If he's flying his plane and two spheres, 'each bigger than a single-engine plane,' flew beside him at less than 20 yards, why the hell would he fly any closer? Pilots would fly away, and fast, to avoid collision or unpredictable turbulence.

As far as I can tell, the story hit the web in November last year. There may be more information, but it's hard to find anything more substantial.

ETA: Nice work Drunken Parrot

edit on 15-2-2011 by Kandinsky because: (no reason given)



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