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"Karma" is the SOURCE of evil.

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posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 03:07 AM
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So far, I have this idea about "free will" and "good vs evil/pain vs pleasure/positive vs negative" - If we imagine an individual, with a balanced level of 9001 energy units, and 8995 separate individuals with a level of 5. If those 8995 individuals attack and each siphon 1 energy unit from the being with 9001 energy, then all individuals will have a level of 6. Now, three possible implications:

Being with 9001 energy is good, 8995 beings are parasites
Being with 9001 energy is selfish, 8995 beings deserve food
With all 8997 beings at an energy level of 6, things are balanced and "equal"

Lets say, that was assuming "free will" where all 8996 beings exist in separate personal domains and must compete for energy. However, without freewill, thus, while sharing the same personal domain in a state of harmony, then either:

A) Being with 9001 remains at 9001, others remain at 5 while in the same domain (partial separation)

OR

B) All beings become "one" being and the one being exists multidimensionally at a collective level of 53976 (no separation).

Karma is thus a result of our separation from each-other. Crossing between A and B might represent the choice to ascend to the next plane.
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edit on 15-2-2011 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by SystemResistor
 


Yes, an unending, unbreakable chain. I have also read you nest post, and there are assumptions that I think shouldn't be made, by societies.
The first one is "free-will". This notion, which I find ridiculous, if not dangerous, assumes that beings start off from "Absolute Zero", and thus, all their decisions are conscious options. This view is mainly one of Police-Societies, that know they have to maintain order, and set examples:
- Does a newborn to a "Crack-Whore", raised in some inner-city Ghetto, jumping from one abusive "foster-home" to another really have "free-will"?
- Does an Ivy League Lawyer, that only became what he is due to his Parents/Pears insistence, black-mail, and intellectual violation, really have "free-will"?

The inconvenient truth is, there is no such thing as "free-will", we are all part of the collective, that surrounds us, and steers us, from our first breath, to the last. Even our revolt, against this, is triggered by, and directed by, the collective.

As for Good/Evil, there is no such thing. Just Propaganda, and points of view...

Of course, there is always a way our - it's called hard work, a thing that frightens most beings, and that takes time, sometimes a lifetime, which also frightens most beings, since everybody is after the "quick-fix" "miracle-solution".

I would point to deconstructionism, and/or Objectivism, as a good way to start this long journey. But, remember, even though the road is long, and the occasional partner (teacher) is acceptable; it must be traveled alone, and always alert...the last thing any Society wants is Free, Independent, Informed, and Empowered individuals...those, they like to imprison, or institutionalize...



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by CerBeRus666
 


I guess at the heart of it is Adam and Eve, a Snake, an Apple, and another outmoded belief system. Trying to cram reality into neat little pockets being the obvious mistake.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by SystemResistor
So far, I have this idea about "free will" and "good vs evil/pain vs pleasure/positive vs negative" - If we imagine an individual, with a balanced level of 9001 energy units, and 8995 separate individuals with a level of 5. If those 8995 individuals attack and each siphon 1 energy unit from the being with 9001 energy, then all individuals will have a level of 6. Now, three possible implications:

Karma is thus a result of our separation from each-other. Crossing between A and B might represent the choice to ascend to the next plane.


Not quite sure but I think I'm beginning to understand what you're trying to make sense of. Karma cannot really be compared to energy in the way you do because it is not energy, if anything it describes the motions of energy, not how it is perceived motionless at any given time. It's not like that energy can be siphoned in any way, that sounds like vampirism to me, it would lead to a lot of confusion.


A) Being with 9001 remains at 9001, others remain at 5 while in the same domain (partial separation)

OR

B) All beings become "one" being and the one being exists multidimensionally at a collective level of 53976 (no separation).


Can there be a C) all beings with the same energy level are put in the same domain? That way they are not seperated from eachother within their own level but are divided up. I dunno, just sounds more cozy to me. Plus I don't want to get swallowed up by some being that says there's no seperation between me and it, I like my walls, they keep out the bad beings. The good beings ofcourse can just jump over it (having a higher energy level and all) but don't unless I agree.

There are some buddhist scholars of the past who have worked out similar ideas, involving how it was like before people existed as we know now, a time when all beings were completely enlightened, then they degraded into humans, further down to being reborn as animals but inevitably becoming buddha's again in many kalpa's (like billions/millions of years) and this just keeps repeating itself eternally.
edit on 15/2/2011 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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Isn't that everyone has different morals proof that it's in reality all in our heads to start with?

I mean the death sentence law differs from place to place, I would say that is a question of morality.

Sure morality will generally reflect what society desires and needs, but that is mostly because the majority kill off impression of otherwise force others to follow your morals.

Everyone also sees different levels of value in things, such as some people would stab another for $50, to their moral conduct $50 is worth more than your conscious of that persons well being, your identification with that persons feelings/well being, or however else you wish to define it.

While others will kill themselves rather than have that person stabbed. Morality, good evil god no god, It's all in the persons head and drastically changes with each person.

I found this Video interesting, it even made me question my own views on the matter:



IDK how to embed youtube video's

In the end though, I think it is rather obvious that there currently is no universal good or bad, Not even this video can say that, It simply goes by social progression, and what is better for a society.

Saying that eventually, science and progression will eventually dictate our morals.


edit on 15-2-2011 by Alina because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by SystemResistor
Imagine, firstly that there is such a thing as "karma" - that is, a kind of punishment/reward system, that our negative actions create negativity and that our positive actions create positivity. What if our negative actions created positivity and our positive actions created negativity. Thus, a hateful person would be rewarded, and thus would no longer feel hate (thus no cruelty), a generous person would be shunned and thus no one would feel privilaged for receiving gifts from them (thus no envy). The positive and negative would exist in a constant state of harmony...


i think one could bypass having to reverse the flow of karma like you mentioned, and instead a person could just respond to 'hateful people, hateful karma' with positive karma.

for example, if person A says something mean to person B - person B might respond in a 'turn the cheek kind of manner' which would allow person A a chance to respond to that response positively



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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Karma is an evil concept, but its not the source of evil.

Karma promotes: Duality (which is a trick of darkness to equate it to the Light)
Judgement
Attachment to action/intention
Senseless punishment (from a past life)


We are not connected to this world through our actions, but through our hearts and soul.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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This isn't a logicall induction. Apparently, you don't grasp the full concept if karma. Karma is not a punishment reward system in the slightest since. I think your thinking of the award punishment system of heaven and hell, not karma. I'll elaborate more on karma when I'm on a computer



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by SystemResistor
 




Cause and effect. That's no mystery unless one considers the obvious requirement of a source. Yep. It's factual. "Goes around, comes around" as they say on the street. It is better understood if we can manage to stay away from the complications inherent in the attempt to define this in terms of religion though. Religion only makes things harder to understand. I would not call this "metaphysical" though because of it's universal qualities. "Metaphysics" is only the phenomenal aspect found in the higher part of the physical realm so it is very limiting really. Cause and effect includes all the levels that are so much higher than that as well. Yeah I believe in the concept.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
Karma is not good or evil it is just the natural consequences of our actions and choices according to the natural laws of the universe. Kind of like gravity, if you jump off a building you will fall and hit the ground as a result of your action and choice.


I agree here. KARMA is also a "Bank" and absolutely there are consequences for our actions. Be it negative or positive.

But for me, it's a sure thing. KARMA bights me hard....because the Universe knows I know better, based on the path I've chosen.

Therefore, I can tell you that some decisions are selfish...as in...I don't want it to come back and bite me! I supposes it depends on your perspective, but isn't that what life REALLY is....about perspective?



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by SystemResistor
 


You seem to confuse 'punishment and reward' with 'what you give, you recieve'.
Lets say you kill someone. Then you die, and you are faced with the infamous 'flash review' and you are that person taking the bullet.

Is it 'punishment' or active learning\wisdom? What if yes, there is 'negative' and 'posetive' but on the broader perspective two sides of the same coin? Its hard to THINK in terms of unity and see only "1" when your verry brain is a conflict pumping duality machine. I dont wanna sound like a buddha or that guy from that documentary somewhere, but it SEEMS to ME that im being fooled!

Thats my five cents.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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Alot of you claim to fully grasp the conceptual understanding of karma, but obviously do not. Don't fool yourself, or others, and act like you do, it does both you and us no good. This is a fairly complex concept, so do not feel bad, just keep contemplating on it.

Karma is not dualism, nor does it promote dualism. You think that because you perceive the world and all its laws from a dualistic perspective of good and evil (bad). Cause and effect is not dualism, it is interdependent of each other.

The OP asked a very good question: "I wonder, what is it inside of us that deems there to be a "polarity" in the first place?"

Dualism is merely a fabrication of our minds (ego), and it arises from our perception of 'self' (individuality). One of the first people in recorded history to write about dualism was Rene Descartes, and he said the body was like a machine that was made of material properties and thus subject to the laws of physics, but that the mind (soul) was immaterial and so not subject to the laws of physics, therefore there is separation between the two, hence dualism. But this has been scientifically proven wrong now that we know the mind is created through chemical reactions.

Eastern philosophy has long denounced the inherent reality of dualism, and now as western science begins to advance further and further it too is denouncing the inherent reality of dualism. Karma is a law of physics, so if the law of physics is not to be understood in dualistic terms, then either is karma.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by SystemResistor
reply to post by squandered
 


Wild animals do not have "free-will" and they are far more diffiult to control than the average human, usually an elaborate system of fences and continuous supply of free food before they can perform any "tricks" - much like us really!


I think we fail at controlling wild animals because we don't understand them.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by SystemResistor
 


This is not what Karma means. You are looking at an Indian / Hindu spiritual belief with the eyes of a western Christian. It does not work that way. Karma is about balance and learning each aspect of all your lives combined. Karma can be good or bad as an energy of balance. You also have to take into account past deeds in other lives etc...



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by Spirit Warrior 11:11
 


When I think about fate in India's context, that sounds like a simplistic form of karma to me.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Dragonfly79
 


I guess I need to elaborate, all beings can experience the same high energy level (or happiness/freedom) when they all work/exist together in a perfect state of equilibrium, in such a world there would be no death and suffering as being would not have to compete for resources/consume each other. In effect, without free-will (the ability to go against the natural flow of others, or inability to interseed in the actions/individuality/energy of others (as every free-will action is always going to have an "effect" on other beings) there is no karma. So, we would not necessarily be swallowed up into one being, however, the effect would be that we would be individual thoughts in the same mind, as opposed to individual minds that have conflicting thoughts. In a way I am describing, probably, the highest reality that exists.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by indigothefish
 


Usually when I confront similar situations, what I do is try to alter my perception of the words that were said, so I use my imagination to perceive the words as not being mean, and respond as if the words were positive. However, in cases of physical harm, I guess there are some things in this world that we cannot alter directly, however, there are ways to avoid said scenarios in the first place.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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It is better to say that Karma is the source of "Good" (Tob, Purity) and "Evil" (Ra, Pollution).

This is why the Tantric Buddhist teachings on Karma-Mudra (see also the Dharmodaya) are so intimately related to the Kabbalistic Phoenician and Hebrew Daath (The Tree of Knowledge of Tob and Ra).

There are many references to this found in my posts here (see also my current signature), as Daath (the Dharmodaya) is related to Yesod which is the Foundation of entering Spiritual Initiation.


"The (Philosophers) Stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner (Yesod), and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." - 1 Peter 2: 7-8

It is taught that in order to go beyond good and evil, we must first comprehend good and evil.



edit on 16-2-2011 by Tamahu because: edited text



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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I think really, I am trying to work towards a grand view of the "this world is a prison" - and was created by evil, and is controlled by evil. The duality exists, the ideas of karma are designed to help people navigate the maze, however, inherrently, it is linked to a doctrine of right and wrong, and simply knowing what is wrong and what is right to begin with, could be the cause of all our problems in the first place.



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by SystemResistor
 


Some of us have, and had similar views (if I'm understanding you correctly) in the past; where we want or wanted to blame everything "evil" on the Demiurge, the Illuminati, etc.

But look at it this way for a moment:

If we don't start blaming ourselves for the majority of our problems, when are we going to know true happiness?

Well, if we keep blaming others, we might not experience true happiness until the Pralaya or end of the Manvantara, or even the Mahapralaya or end of the Mahamanvantara!


This isn't to say that there aren't both overt and occult forces at work that we have to defend ourselves against at times; however in the end, we mainly have only ourselves to blame for our situation.



edit on 16-2-2011 by Tamahu because: (no reason given)




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