TA-THREATS: Recent Terrorism Dry Run on Flight 327?

In an article By Annie Jacobsen of the Women's Wall Street Journal, she details her personal experience on a NorthWest Airlines flight between Detroit and Los Angeles on June 29, 2004.
The article raises many questions about the adequacy of security procedures by the airline crews, staff, screeners and government agencies tasked with preventing another 9/11 from happening.


From her story it appears that some kind of dry run by possible terrorists had indeed occured on this flight.

The 14 men on the flight later identified themselves as musicians. They had no American arrest records and were not on any watch lists.

They did, however, fly to California on one way tickets. All 14 of them flew on one-way tickets. Their return flight to New York? Yes, they flew on one-way tickets back, too.

After deboarding the flight, Mrs. Jacobsen and her family saw a large number of official-looking "men in dark suits" waiting at the gate. The men turned out to be LAPD, FBI, TSA, and Federal Air Marshall personnel. The fourteen suspicious men from the plane were ushered away quickly.

The Jacobsen family willingly interviewed with the government officials, detailing the activity they'd seen. They witnessed one official holding "14 Syrian passports" in the location they were being interviewed.

As though the suspiscious activity wasn't disturbing enough, the response of personnel on the plane - or lack of response - is moreso. And that lack of response, how does that happen after the events of 9-11?

It's because it's illegal to question large groups of minority persons behaving in a peculiar way in an airport or on a flight. It's discriminitory. According to the Chairman of the independant 9-11 Commission, John Lehman, "...it was the policy (before 9/11) and I believe remains the policy today to fine airlines if they have more than two young Arab males in secondary questioning because that's discriminatory."

Then there's the question of screening. Despite the fact that restaurants in the airport, located beyond security screening points, serve meals with metal cutlery - including knives - no inspection of carryon luggage takes place after a passenger goes through that metal detector. Passengers who wear "orthopedic shoes," as one of the 14 on Flight 327 wore, are never required to remove those shoes, even at screening points. The same goes for many other medical devices. The Transportation Security Administration even provides a checklist on their website detailing what sort of medical devices are exempt from screening.

The skies are supposed to be safer. We are supposed to have increased security measures in place to prevent a repeat of 9-11.

Judging by Mrs. Jacobsen's story, however, that safety is most definately in question.

UPDATE: Mrs. Jacobsen has provided a follow-up piece on the day's events, including reaction from aviation professionals.
Terror in the Skies, Again? Part II

[edit on 20-7-2004 by Banshee]

[edit on 7-20-2004 by Valhall]

hmmm well that DOES seem odd and what makes me uneasy is they went unchallenged, noone said a damn word to them.

this country is screwed! everyone is walking around like zombies and paying very little attention still.

have we learned nothing??????? good grief! the crew on that flight should be fired. if that had been the real thing they could have died.

thats right! far better to say something and be accused of being an alarmist than to be DEAD!

better to be safe than dead.

seven guys get up at the same time and head to the bathrooms and this isnt seen an unusual behavior????

good god, expect more planes to be used as weapons, the crews of these flights obviously dont have a clue or seem to care.

I believe it. The goverment might be planning a 911 pt2 to swing the election towards Bush. To Bush supporters this might sound rediculous but in my recent trip to NYC none of the subway stations had guards a neither did the river crossings (lincoln tunnel,GW Bridge) Yet the threat level is elevated?

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
hmmm well that DOES seem odd and what makes me uneasy is they went unchallenged, noone said a damn word to them.

this country is screwed! everyone is walking around like zombies and paying very little attention still.

seven guys get up at the same time and head to the bathrooms and this isnt seen an unusual behavior????

good god, expect more planes to be used as weapons, the crews of these flights obviously dont have a clue or seem to care.

Jacobson does say in her article that the flight crew was aware that sky marshalls were onboard the A/C, If these people had intended to assemble a bomb for instance then the actions of the sky marshalls don't indicate that their presence would have prevented it.

The real gist of this article is the continuing PC policy of screening old ladies very closely while letting more obvious security risks pass on by.

1. Maybe it was Al-Jazeera's new reality show... "American Martyr"

2. was this a joke to these 'musicians'?. Let's scare the Americans on our flight and see what happens. That would be sickinening if true. C'mon, 3 one a plane is one thing, but over a dozen acting in unison?

3. It was a staged event to guage public reaction. Would the gov't place people on a plane to enact a event to see what the public reaction would be to the movements?( I think, no, I know I would have said something to these guys if I was on the plane with my wife. C'mon....)

Interesting article.......

Absolutely terrifying. The feeling of helplessness and doubt you would have. Was she overreacting? What could she actually do if it was the real thing?

If profiling is not a consideration, then what? Prohibit all carry-on items - search everyone - fly naked.

A good thought was brought up here. Why are we still allowing carryon luggage? Okay I know the convience factor but you know, I will be put out a bit if it means my plane is not as likely to be turned into a missle. Those who would complain are most likely the same people that complain just to hear themselves complain (anyone that travels on business knows these people).

If this did in fact happen it should scare the hell out of all of us. Even more so, where is the news reports of this? Why has there been nothing done to the flight crew. They should ALL be fired. Also if there were Marshalls on the flight, a public flogging followed by termination is in order.

why in God's name would you not say something before the plane took off?

They noticed some things while people were still boarding, so what if it turns out to be nothing.

If I'm on a plane with my spouse and kid and start to notice things, I'm speaking up.

I find the story interesting and alarming, but sort of hard to beleive...

The article states, if you read it fully, that the flight attendants did indeed notice. There were federal air marshals on board. They communicated through notes to each other. They were fully aware of what was going on on board, but the flight attendanants and pilots were not allowed to do anything until something happened.

It is because of the anti discrimination policies the federal govornment has imposed on airlines. It states in the article Norm Minneta had the nerve to fine Both American and United Airlines because they had orginially detained more than two Arab males at a time. Because of the anti discrimination laws, airlines are not allowed to detain more than two arabs at a time for questioning.

With assholes like Norm Minetta in charge of national transportation security, who needs worry about terrorists?

She is correct about lax security. I noticed it too last time I was flying. Hell, security was 10 times harder at Manchester in the UK than it was at Logan or Sea Tac.

According to the FBI, what they told this owman is that they were all Syrian musicians, and werent on any FBI terrorist watchlists.

Its interesting to note many of the 9/11 hijackers were pulled aside, questioned, then allowed to board thier flights. Go figure.

So now we have terrorists learning to play musical instruments. Wonderful.

The 9/11 hijackers were spotted by some famous guy one week before 9/11 doing a trial run on the same flight from Boston to LA. Nothign was done about it.

My guess is nothing will be done here either.

The airline industry, and the government regulation of it, are all run by idiots. Seriously. Besides these obvious security lapses, how else do you explain the fact that in 50+ years no airline has been able to be profitable without being on government welfare?

I think Seanbaby's discussion on terrorism and airline security best sums up my feelings:
www.seanbaby.com...

"...Maybe it's wrong to discriminate against a people just because they occasionally blow up a plane, but I'm going to try to talk you into it. Say, for example, you're an Arab at the airport. First of all, welcome to one of my country's beautiful airports, suspicious traveller from afar. You'll notice that security searches everyone in the airport including you. That means you have to wait in line for three to four hours while they go through the luggage of all the old ladies ahead of you for no good reason other than try to not hurt you and and your people's feelings. Now imagine how nice it would be if they ignored everyone else and went straight for your luggage. You just saved four hours of standing in line, and all you have to do to get on the plane is not carry a bomb. I want to make it clear that no one is accusing you of being a highjacking murderer, we're only accusing you of being of the only race that has a CHANCE of being a highjacking murderer..."

He has a lot more to say, and he's hilarious. But what he says makes sense...

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
The airline industry, and the government regulation of it, are all run by idiots. Seriously. Besides these obvious security lapses, how else do you explain the fact that in 50+ years no airline has been able to be profitable without being on government welfare?

I think Seanbaby's discussion on terrorism and airline security best sums up my feelings:
www.seanbaby.com...

"...Maybe it's wrong to discriminate against a people just because they occasionally blow up a plane, but I'm going to try to talk you into it. Say, for example, you're an Arab at the airport. First of all, welcome to one of my country's beautiful airports, suspicious traveller from afar. You'll notice that security searches everyone in the airport including you. That means you have to wait in line for three to four hours while they go through the luggage of all the old ladies ahead of you for no good reason other than try to not hurt you and and your people's feelings. Now imagine how nice it would be if they ignored everyone else and went straight for your luggage. You just saved four hours of standing in line, and all you have to do to get on the plane is not carry a bomb. I want to make it clear that no one is accusing you of being a highjacking murderer, we're only accusing you of being of the only race that has a CHANCE of being a highjacking murderer..."

He has a lot more to say, and he's hilarious. But what he says makes sense...

It's funny you would post that on a ATS whose motto is deny ignorance. I have as much capability as the next arab to hijack a plane. All of us do. Security should be across the board regardless of race or ethnic backround.

I DID fully read the article and I still say, BULLSH.... if I'm on a plane with my family and notice things like that around me and can open my mouth and say something before the plane takes off, I'm going to.

Call me stupid, racist, whatever, you just never know and I'm not taking any chances.

Besides.. as it says in the article...

As boarding continued, we watched as, one by one, most of the Middle Eastern men made eye contact with each other. They continued to look at each other and nod, as if they were all in agreement about something. I could tell that my husband was beginning to feel anxious.

yeah, I know that just nodding could mean nothing, but even the husband started to feel anxious...

I'm just saying, watch out, you don't know when or where they could attack, I'm not taking any chances.

Originally posted by elevatedone
I DID fully read the article and I still say, BULLSH.... if I'm on a plane with my family and notice things like that around me and can open my mouth and say something before the plane takes off, I'm going to.

Call me stupid, racist, whatever, you just never know and I'm not taking any chances.

Besides.. as it says in the article...

As boarding continued, we watched as, one by one, most of the Middle Eastern men made eye contact with each other. They continued to look at each other and nod, as if they were all in agreement about something. I could tell that my husband was beginning to feel anxious.

yeah, I know that just nodding could mean nothing, but even the husband started to feel anxious...

I'm just saying, watch out, you don't know when or where they could attack, I'm not taking any chances.

I respect your feelings towards security and in a real world your promptness and awareness would get you auplause. However, if these guys were just waiting to use the bathroom and you started to cause a ruckus you, not them would be in trouble especially if they cleared further investagation.

no no no.... I'm not saying I would cause "trouble",

I would simply inform the flight attendants of my "feelings" and probably ask to be put on another flight,

I wouldn't jump up and down and yell.... terrorist.... terrorist

Originally posted by elevatedone
no no no.... I'm not saying I would cause "trouble",

I would simply inform the flight attendants of my "feelings" and probably ask to be put on another flight,

I wouldn't jump up and down and yell.... terrorist.... terrorist

Sorry I misunderstood you. I would probably do the same

i heard this on the Schnitt show on NPR. proves our gov. isn't doing a good job with its intel.

Flying is a privilege, not a right. If it takes 7 hours to do pre-flight, too bad. Wanna Drive?

This is s side rant but......5 Simple Rules to safe flight
1. No carry on items. (restrict this to a clear plastic bag if you are a parent or Diapers and wipeys provided on board.Short of a child or someone with a medical condition, what do you truly need ot carry on?

2. Wear sandals? hey, just a thought to save some time....

3. If you are Arab, sorry, those are the breaks. I didn't see any Irishman on the 9/11 terrosit list (Just like being black, white with LONG hair, mexican with a banadana...Don't dress like a gangster or Marilyn Manson
and people won't notice you and wonder what you are up to)

4. One person may get up on the plane at a time. NO EXCEPTIONS.

5. Take some of the funding for those Iraqi police and train enough marshalls so there is one on EVERY FLIGHT. (don't day it can;t happen, becasue it probably does)


I am very suprised that this story has not hit hte mainstream media by now. I read it a second time and it still gave me the shivers. A motion across his neck and a no???? That arab would have been on his a** and the hell with the consequences if I was on that flight....I would rather be alive than BBQ.....

That was an extremely interesting article. Part of me wants to believe that perhaps a bit is stretched for the news, perhaps the part where he made the cut signal to his throat and mouthed the word no (would he be so obvious with such a threatening gesture??) However, I just can't get over the feeling that perhaps this is a distraction. Maybe a "lets start pretending like we're going for the planes again and get them looking over there, then we'll blow up a mall" sort of thing. Who knows, but i'm getting more nervous as the election approaches.

I hope this is the proper forum to post this. This story reminds me of what happened to my husband and myself 2 weeks prior to 9/11. We were waiting for a plane at Phoenix Sky Harbour. The plane was due from L.A. and going on to Dallas.
While waiting for the plane to arrive, we noticed some very strange looking individuals. I can't even tell you now, if they were Middle-Eastern. They just seemed very serious, scarey, and creepy.
Neither hubby or I are the kind to make broad sweeping assumptions or to panic unnecessarily. However, we looked at these guys, looked at each other, and said: "Let's skip this flight." Of course, nothing happened to the flight.
However, we've wondered, many times, after we learned about the Phoenix Memo and the terrorists who trained in Phoenix, if these were actually terrorists making a dry run prior to 9/11.
I've fought my whole life for civil rights, BUT, if I felt my life or my family's life was in danger. I wouldn't think twice about notifying a flight attendant or someone in authority. I don't care it that "someone" were Middle Eastern, Asian, Hispanic, or a Bubba from Texas. I'm not taking any chances.
Sorry for the ramble.
joey

Joey, that is some scary stuff.

Originally posted by SoaringFalcon
I have as much capability as the next arab to hijack a plane. All of us do. Security should be across the board regardless of race or ethnic backround.

This is very true, but since it's physically impossible to search everyone, all the time, shouldn't we at least search first the people who are the most likely candidates to commit the crimes?

I believe in equality and fairness just as much as anyone else here -- but there's no racism in looking for the right people based on their descriptions.

Certain types of people are prone to attempt certain types of crimes... 99% of all serial killers are white males between 18-35, 99% of all plane hijackers are Middle Eastern males between 18-35, etc. (Is it racism to first search all the white males between 18-35 in an area for suspects when there's a serial killer on the loose? I don't think so.) There are always exceptions, but the police can't ignore common sense and forgo criminal profiles. It would make a reasonable police investigation impossible, and mean certain death for some unlucky victims...


[edit on 7/16/2004 by ThunderCloud]