Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker Readies National Guard Against Unions

Q.I wonder what our mates here would do if this were against corporations???

A.Probably act as human shields

reply to post by Flatfish

Look, if you think that the National Guard has enough manpower to fill all the vacancies in the event that the unions refuse to work, well you'd have another think coming.

That may not be true. Reagan proved that the efficiency of the military far outweighs the typical workers. He replaced all of the Air Traffic Controllers with military personnel during a strike and he did it with something like 25 or 30% of the staff, and no mishaps.

While I am entirely on board with the Government Employees exercising their rights (I am a State employee also), I do think they should understand that they are replaceable, and that many of them are probably redundant anyway. It is ok to protest, but it is also ok to be replaced with a more efficient model!

Unions in America are not Democratic.

You can't pick your Union Steward in America. The Union President has "Executive Powers" to pick your Union Steward.

Communist Mafia...If they went back to their roots and became Democratic Unions they'd have alot more support.

Originally posted by Flatfish

Janky Red is another one of those in early brain development stages who tends to respond with one line troll like insults. I wouldn't expect much from him either.

edit on 15-2-2011 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)

Janky Red is just being sarcastic. Heavy handed sarcasm to make a point can be lost if you don't know the posters history. Janky rocks!

Topic....In Unity there is Strength.....Unions, Kickinass for the working class.

Pervius
You can't pick your Union Steward in America. The Union President has "Executive Powers" to pick your Union Steward.

Untrue! In our local we vote.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Flatfish

 

Look, if you think that the National Guard has enough manpower to fill all the vacancies in the event that the unions refuse to work, well you'd have another think coming.

That may not be true. Reagan proved that the efficiency of the military far outweighs the typical workers. He replaced all of the Air Traffic Controllers with military personnel during a strike and he did it with something like 25 or 30% of the staff, and no mishaps.

While I am entirely on board with the Government Employees exercising their rights (I am a State employee also), I do think they should understand that they are replaceable, and that many of them are probably redundant anyway. It is ok to protest, but it is also ok to be replaced with a more efficient model!

Nothing wrong with efficiency, I agree. Most unions are more than willing to take moves that improve efficiency, after all that's what collective bargaining is all about. They just don't believe that slave labor is the key to that efficiency.

On the other hand, all Reagan did was to replace one small aspect of unionized labor in America which was air traffic controllers. Do you really believe that they have the manpower to replace all unionized labor at once? I agree that it could be done provided that the unions don't stick together, but that's the beauty of being union. Our strength is derived from our solidarity and a few wealthy interest have no power against the masses. Egypt is a perfect example of what happens when things hit critical mass and guess what America, this movie is coming to a theatre near you, sooner than you may think.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Flatfish

Janky Red is another one of those in early brain development stages who tends to respond with one line troll like insults. I wouldn't expect much from him either.

edit on 15-2-2011 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)

Janky Red is just being sarcastic. Heavy handed sarcasm to make a point can be lost if you don't know the posters history. Janky rocks!

Topic....In Unity there is Strength.....Unions, Kickinass for the working class.

If that's the case, then I stand corrected and I offer my apologies to Janky Red. Sometimes I fail to recognize the sarcasm for what it is and that's my mistake. Thanks for enlightening me.

reply to post by The Sword


NOT against state employees as you keep mentioning.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) said Friday that he was willing to mobilize the state's National Guard force in order to address the potential repercussions of his stated proposal to eliminate collective bargaining rights for state employees.

"Potential repercussions" I remember when the Canadian posties went on strike last they destroyed thousands of pieces of mail as part of the strike. I suspect he is looking to use the national guard to keep essential services running, he's not pointing guns at the union people he's making a plan to have the guard fill those positions until the strikes are over.

The fact is that the unions always bolieve that money is an unlimited bucket that they can keep asking for more cash and benefits until the cows come home. Well they have, there isn't enough tax revenue with all these people out of work to meet the demands of the union so now decisions have to be made to try and bring the state back to a position of fiscal ballance.

Originally posted by Pervius
Unions in America are not Democratic.

You can't pick your Union Steward in America. The Union President has "Executive Powers" to pick your Union Steward.

Communist Mafia...If they went back to their roots and became Democratic Unions they'd have alot more support.

I don't know where you people get this crap. What union are you talking about? Do you have any idea how stringent the Dept. of Labor laws are with respect to union elections? There is not a corporation in existence today that has to comply with election laws like those imposed on unions. Unions are required to send notices of upcoming elections, by mail, to all union members at least 14 days prior to an election. Unions are required to store the actual ballots cast, under lock and key, for a period of one year after an election. Proxies are not allowed in union votes but they are the rave when it comes to corporate votes. You can even hire someone to vote your proxies in a corporation, go figure. Unions are all about democracy and to my knowledge, no one becomes a representative without being elected to that position by the body of their union.

This is not about unions geez. This is about a failed government that wants to change the rules now because they've spent money they didnt have and now its time to pay the piper.

Funny every cut you hear out of the government comes from the people isnt it? Have you heard one pundit even hint at cutting the military spending except for Ron Paul? No they all want to tax more pay less or else unleash hell on us.

Fine,lets get it on then. I'm with the workers,I hope they do strike and I hope the rest of the countrys workers strike. Maybe then we can rid ourselves of the real problem,the federal reserve system and the banksters and their little lapdog puppets the politicos.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Q.I wonder what our mates here would do if this were against corporations???

A.Probably act as human shields

This just goes to show how under educated you are. Corporations hate unions. Why? Because it removes the power from the management and owners to do what they wish. I have seen both sides of the spectrum, corporations and Unions - while both are corrupt, it seems the only people who make comments like yours are the ones who are jealous because they lack job security.

Believe it or not, you are the human shield of corporations because of your undying hate of unions. You are the one giving corporations power, not unions. Go read a book or three and then talk about this. Stop trolling.

Originally posted by Pervius
Unions in America are not Democratic.

You can't pick your Union Steward in America. The Union President has "Executive Powers" to pick your Union Steward.

Communist Mafia...If they went back to their roots and became Democratic Unions they'd have alot more support.

I wonder what unions you are refering to? In all of the unions I have seen and work along side; anyone who holds any type of office is voted in. In the union I belong to, we even have an external company review and count the votes to maintain that there is no fraud. What a strange statement....

Originally posted by LukeSky
This is not about unions geez. This is about a failed government that wants to change the rules now because they've spent money they didnt have and now its time to pay the piper.

Funny every cut you hear out of the government comes from the people isnt it? Have you heard one pundit even hint at cutting the military spending except for Ron Paul? No they all want to tax more pay less or else unleash hell on us.

The state doesn't have a military budget or any recourse about the federal reserve. This is about one governer looking at his states budget and saying that they need to cut money from the budget. They can either reduce services or reduce the labour used to provide those services. It's not that difficult of a choice. The previous government spent too much by giving into the union demands. How hard is it to realize that the concessions you where strong armed into giving you can't afford. If a couple of mobsters come to my bussiness and threaten to shut me down unless I give them and there buddies money then I agree because if I don't they'll start smashing equipment. So after they leave do I send them the money or do I increase security and get rid of the criminals?

I've worked both union and non-union jobs and I can say that in the union jobs there were dozens of people who did no work and bragged that they couldn't be fired because they had too much seniority, when lay offs came it was the younger harder workers who got canned because the lazy ones couldn't be let go until all the people who had been there less time got tossed first. In my own business I won't let union types in the door, they create too many issues and unionizing is a death spiral for a company.

I made the mistake once of hiring a union welder (it was so hard to find welders I let the union convince me to try hiring union welders at the unions rules) on his first day he tried to leave at noon, seems the union says he only needs to weld X number of inches of weld per day and he finished that amount at 11:45 so he figured he should be done for the day. My non-union welders welded X inches before 10am so I got 3-4 times as much welding out of the non union guys in a day. Plus the union rules said that there welders can have upto 25% welds rejected, my non union guys got talked to if they went over 5%.

Yes the union guy lasted less than two days before I tossed him for cause. The union decided that since I wouldn't unionize my business they would make my life hell. They filled false accusations with workers comp, safety and various other government departments. It took a year to fight all those accusations and the occupational safety inspector told me that obviously the union wanted to punish me for not unionizing because the vp of the union had come into thier offices in person with 10 guys who all said my shop was unsafe (only 1 of which had either worked for me or even been in my shop). In the end the union got a fine for false accusations and the shop I ran was out thousands of dollars in legal fees. The issue is unions want to make money and they are corrupt to the core.

reply to post by exile1981


I find it odd that you paint unions as "corrupt to the core" for their stance that X number of welds equals a days work. It wasn't too long ago that a very prominent, non-union, grocery store chain was successfully sued for demanding that their employees complete a predetermined list of task before going home, even if it meant working off the clock, (extra hrs. without pay and/or overtime compensation) to do so. Are they also corrupt to the core or are they just carrying out sound business practices?

Originally posted by 4nsicphd

Originally posted by MMPI2
The unions as they currently exist are nothing more than highly organized criminal enterprises.

I truly hope the worst for them.

Oh really? And specifically what crime. Give the statute number and the name of the person commiting the crime. Or was your post just a mindless repitetion of Chamber of Commerce slogans?

Well, I don't have the next ten days to compile cases of arrests, indictments and convictions typical of union lawbreaking and corruption, but here is one that you might find interesting if you ever decide to read anything other than Scooby Doo comic books.

367 F.2d 698

UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. James R. HOFFA, Benjamin Dranow, Zachary A. Strate, Jr., S. George Burris, Abe I. Weinblatt, Calvin Kovens, and Samuel Hyman, Defendants-Appellants.

United States Court of Appeals Seventh Circuit.
October 4, 1966.
Rehearing Denied November 28, 1966.

And it just goes on and on and on. The words "labor union" are synonymous with "organized crime" and "racketeering influenced corrupt organization."

Everybody knows it. Pretending that it isn't true doesn't make it false.

reply to post by Flatfish


No that business was breaking the law by forcing employees to work unpaid over time. In the case of what I was saying is that employees should expect to work 8 hours and get paid for the time they work, if the welders worked 8.5 hours they got paid full wage for 8 hours and 1.5 times for the next half hour so it was like getting paid for 8.75 hours.

During my year of hell the Union took to following home the non union guys and harrassing them at home and demanding they sign forms authorizing the union to represent them to management. We where a small shop with 5 welders and 4 other staff, it's not like we were a big fish but they didn't like the idea of a non-union shop and though as a little guy they could pressure us easier.

reply to post by Flatfish


There is a big difference between a employeer saying you have to work for free and a union saying you have to only work a quarter day to get a full days wages. Both are corrupt and immoral. If you want that pay do the work if you want to only work 2-3 hours then expect to get paid for only 2-3 hours. It's a very simple concept.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) said Friday that he was willing to mobilize the state's National Guard force in order to address the potential repercussions of his stated proposal to eliminate collective bargaining rights for state employees.

and

On Thursday, Walker told the Associated Press that he will propose removing nearly all public employee collective bargaining rights to help plug a $3.6 billion budget hole.

WHO caused this mess? Unions? or the very government and banks people blindly follow?

How much more does it have to be dumbed down? This isn't about unions people, it is about rights. All of the people in this thread who are making it about unions need to open your eyes and stop being fixated on your corporate conservative beliefs.

How much money is it taking the state to take measures to mobilize the Guard? Wouldn't the police and other security forces work along side the guard costing tax payers MILLIONS? This isn't about filling a budget hole – this is about diminishing the quality of life of the people of Wisconsin. This is about the elites and government vs. humanity.

How can people not see this? Are some of you that brainwashed?

Are people protesting and revolting all over the world because of UNIONS or IDIOTIC politicians? THINK.

reply to post by Pervius


Your right in my union the president chooses the steward but the position of president, vice president, business agent, ect...are elected so in fact if the elected board doesn't do right by the members or if they aren't happy with their decisions they can simply not vote for him. It's one of the few places that I've actually seen democracy work! Now I will say Unions are only out for themselves but that's why we join them to ensure that as a worker under a company you will still have the right to a fair workplace including the abundance of work in your trade and to be paid well for it. However this may not be what's best for everyone else and so draw comments such as the one you made. In my experience I.A.T.S.E. has upheld my interests as a worker and kept the board to a standard of service to the member.

As a side note I have worked on jobs along side non-union members and i can say they normally make 1/4 to 1/2 as much as we do showing if they can get away with they will!

reply to post by Black_Fox


You people think your slaves now wait untill they break all unions. People that are diehard against unions have forgotten the reason they have lunch/breaks/8hr working days and overtime pay are becouse of unions. Yes there is corruption in upper level union positions but they keep in check greedy corperations and employers from abusing the workforce.Think twice before bashing unions becouse these republicans in office are licking there chops to bust unions to lower your wages and employee benefits.Unionize or the workforce will be taken advantage of. p.j. Bricklayers local #5 Cleveland,Ohio