Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker Readies National Guard Against Unions

reply to post by zappafan1

REPLY: I agree with you somewhat, but taxpayers in Wisconsin pay 87% of teachers health care premiums, and 100% match of what they put into their pension. Too damn much.

I do agree that it is way too much... but I only see this as another illusion to disrupt people from joining together against a greater evil. People are segregated because we allow 'them' to classify us into categories.

Think of it this way. Wisconsinites pay 87% of health care of teachers, right? Teachers are state employees right?

Now, how much are Wisconsinites paying for other state employees health and welfare benefits, example: the Governor, members of the state congress etc. Aren't they state employees also? If some people like teachers and DMV employees need to be cut back on their health and pensions, it needs to affect everyone across the board from the Governor, the teachers, police, firefighters, congress, senate...

You see it now don't you?

The Governor wants people to accept a dictation of who has more 'worth' in society - but yet fails to focus on the cause of the problem: banks, and government.

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
Most things start out good but with time seem to fail.
I think most of you opposed to unions don't have a clue what unions have accomplished.
I have been a union steward and a executive board member , I have seen the accomplishments and achievements by unions and the abuse by the unions and their members.
As for the unions, the good out weights the bad.
Thought this article was relivent.

finance.yahoo.com...


How the middle class became the underclass
cnnmoney



Annalyn Censky, staff reporter, On Wednesday February 16, 2011, 9:28 am EST

Are you better off than your parents?

Probably not if you're in the middle class.

Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it's not just because of the Great Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.

In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.

REPLY: Thanks to high state and federal taxes; and you didn't mention if the 2008 number was inflation adjusted.

Meanwhile, the richest 1% of Americans -- those making $380,000 or more -- have seen their incomes grow 33% over the last 20 years, leaving average Americans in the dust. Experts point to some of the usual suspects -- like technology and globalization -- to explain the widening gap between the haves and have-nots.

REPLY: GOOD! That means the economy is working like it should in a free society. By the way, 99% of the "have-nots" are "will nots." The average American won't expend the effort to educate themselves or do the hard work required to earn more than $380K. So what's your point here?

Because of deals struck through collective bargaining, union workers have traditionally earned 15% to 20% more than their non-union counterparts, Rodgers said.

REPLY: Gee... he's a real genius; but he's correct because unions force companies to pay their workers more than the job is actually worth.

But union membership has declined rapidly over the past 30 years. In 1983, union workers made up about 20% of the workforce. In 2010, they represented less than 12%.

"The erosion of collective bargaining is a key factor to explain why low-wage workers and middle income workers have seen their wages not stay up with inflation," Rodgers said.

REPLY: I hope this guy doesn't call himself an economist, and he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near our youth. A company can't pay their workers with an eye to keeping up with inflation. To do so, their goods and/or services would have to go up in price, both of which could put the company out of business; what good would your union do you then?

Without collective bargaining pushing up wages, especially for blue-collar work -- average incomes have stagnated.

Whereas 50 years earlier, there were plenty of blue collar opportunities for workers who had only high school diploma, now employers seek "soft skills" that are typically honed in college, Rodgers said.

A boon for the rich.

REPLY Good! The "rich" are the ones who provide jobs in the first place.

"With a global economy, people who have extraordinary skills... whether they be in financial services, technology, entertainment or media, have a bigger place to play and be rewarded from," said Alan Johnson, a Wall Street compensation consultant.

REPLY: Isn't freedom wonderful?

As a result, the disparity between the wages for college educated workers versus high school grads has widened significantly since the 1980s.

REPLY: Again, good! Of course, our failed school system, who graduate kids who can't read or make change, doesn't have anything to do with that?


The S&P 500 has gained more than 1,300% since 1970. While that's helped the American economy grow, the benefits have been disproportionately reaped by the wealthy.

REPLY: Economics 101. The wealthy invest more and therefore profit more.

Tax cuts enacted during the Bush administration and extended under Obama were also a major windfall for the nation's richest.

REPLY: So what? It's a crime that they get to keep more of what they earned? IT'S THEIR MONEY!

But the story didn't end well. Eventually, it all came crashing down, resulting in the worst economic slump since the Great Depression.

REPLY: Yes, thanks to Leftist Socialist ideology of selling houses to those that couldn't afford them

Originally posted by kroms33
reply to post by zappafan1

 

REPLY: I agree with you somewhat, but taxpayers in Wisconsin pay 87% of teachers health care premiums, and 100% match of what they put into their pension. Too damn much.

I do agree that it is way too much... but I only see this as another illusion to disrupt people from joining together against a greater evil. People are segregated because we allow 'them' to classify us into categories.

Think of it this way. Wisconsinites pay 87% of health care of teachers, right? Teachers are state employees right?

Now, how much are Wisconsinites paying for other state employees health and welfare benefits, example: the Governor, members of the state congress etc. Aren't they state employees also? If some people like teachers and DMV employees need to be cut back on their health and pensions, it needs to affect everyone across the board from the Governor, the teachers, police, firefighters, congress, senate...

You see it now don't you?

The Governor wants people to accept a dictation of who has more 'worth' in society - but yet fails to focus on the cause of the problem: banks, and government.

edit on 2/24/2011 by kroms33 because: quotes messed up

edit on 2/24/2011 by kroms33 because: (no reason given)

REPLY:Yes, they are state employees, but they are not elected; there's your difference. Don't you get it??? ..... joining a "group" doesn't give you a voice, it takes away from it, because the "group" speaks for you..... supposedly. What hasn't been mentioned is that the teachers don't deserve what they make now, let alone giving them more. Only 40% of the Madison 8th grade students read at a proficient level (meaning 4th grade reading capabilities.) No, people put themselves into categories by their education and therefore their earning capabilities.
Yes, some people have more "worth" than others, all through history and in all cultures and countries.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


No, actually, the unions don't care about that at all. It's all about getting dues money, and political power.

reply to post by Gooey6


What are you talking about? Walker blocked specific Web sites from the State Capitol's free Wifi; this isn't an "employee only" WAP but set up for visitors to the capitol. He targeting "unfriendly" Web sites.

www.dailykos.com...

Pro-union website blocked in Wisconsin Capitol

Walker Administration in Wisconsin Accused of Blocking Access to Pro-Union Website

Former Wisconsin Assistant Attorney General Charles Hoornstra said that, if Walker is blocking the website, it could be a violation of state and federal laws concerning free speech laws.

This isn’t the first time the state government has been accused of cutting off Internet access. The Teaching Assistants Association earlier accused state authorities of cutting off Wi-Fi access to a room they had taken over as a headquarters inside of the Capitol.

Some of the activists in Madison used the occasion to draw comparisons with Internet shutdowns in Egypt and Libya. CNN picked up the story, taking it nationwide, and Sachin Chheda, a Democratic activist and former IT employee at the Capitol, said someone inside the government would have to consciously add the website to a blacklist for the software to block access.

“I doubt Gov. Walker himself ordered the block, but some of his associates treat the 1st Amendment as something worthy of defending only when it protects their point of view,” Jeson opines. “Imagine what would happen if the Capitol Wi-Fi blocked Fox News or one of several anti-union, pro-Walker websites that popped up at the same time defendwisconsin.org was launched; I am not surprised none of those sites favorable to the governor’s position have complained about similar blocks.”

The governor’s office late in the day tried to change the subject.

It's amazing that when tryanny does raise it's ugly head here in the States, how many people genuflect before it simply because it targets their political opponents. Yet once the precedent has been set, it remains entrenched.

I assume then, that if and when Dems start blocking pro-republican Web sites from locations they are in power, that you would be okay with that?

Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by Flatfish

 

The reason you do not find supporters of the Governor out to protest is because we are all working!!! I support him 100%, but you would never see me pulling this crap that the union members are doing. If they decide to hike my taxes because the unions need more benefits, I will not be storming the capitol.

If you want to know the truth about the Wisconsin budget deficit, check out this thread I just started; www.abovetopsecret.com...

The real reason for raising your taxes is to pay of their cronie corporate and special interest supporters that got them elected and not because of unions. You anti-union people are being suckered, yet again, by the very people you put in office. How they get you people to vote against your own self interest just blows me away.

REPLY: You haven't a clue as to what you're talking about, yet you start a thread? And you say what about the unions getting Dems elected year after year? That's OK? Having someone make 50 to 100% more than the job is actually worth, then raising my taxes, is not in the best interest of non-union workers. That money could be going into my bank for the kids college, or towards my retirement (instead of someone I don't even know.)

reply to post by Flatfish


REPLY: UNIONS are special interests, too. Of course you link to a progressive info outlet, which doesn't care about facts. Look at what has been voted on and you'll see that there's nothing to cause the 3+ Billion dollar deficit that was there when Walker took office.

So the people of Wisconsin finally hire someone to bring down the deficit, and balance the budget, and look what happens.

Look... The national guard was alerted because of all the folks tying up business at the capitol. They are preventing the peoples business from being carried out; they are preventing democratic principals from taking place; they are NOT exercising democracy, they are running away from it, the cowards they are.

I would have called for the national guard the first day the state house was invaded. The people of Wisc voted and they voted for change, and they got it. Now, a bunch of selfish government unions want to keep the power to suck the life out of what's left in the empty back accounts of the people.

Their solution ? TAXES ! Well you can forget that notion.

I am so glad that we are seeing all this on TV. Now the union/democrat/media alliance is exposed for all to see. And if we don't give them money and benefits that the people can't afford, they will riot in the streets and Obama will sanction it. The MSM will praise it.

And the good people of the nation will see it and reject it with more gusto than they did the dictator democrats of congress in 2010.

BTW, I would have arrested all of the senators who fled for treason, and arrested the doctors for medical fraud. And the protesters for trespassing and disturbing the public peace, and for disrupting the continuity of government.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


They pay for it and they can block it. Why should they provide the means to do harm to the rest of the people who aren't in unions? It's not like the strikers don't have cell phones, or use twitter, etc. I hope the links never go back up at taxpayer expense.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


".... It's amazing that when tryanny does raise it's ugly head here in the States, how many people genuflect before it simply because it targets their political opponents. Yet once the precedent has been set, it remains entrenched."

(Reply:you mean what the union workers are doing now in Madison and other states?)

".... I assume then, that if and when Dems start blocking pro-republican Web sites from locations they are in power, that you would be okay with that?"

REPLY: Oh..... you mean like Obama now having the kill switch on the internet?

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Oh my gosh, you should listen to your own advice about walking the party line.

I am neither Republican or Democrat...I don't allow party lines to determine what I deem "right" or "wrong".

Maybe your mind can't fathom someone actually thinking outside the box. Not everyone is a democracy drone that votes republican or democrat regardless of the situation...get real.

So let me guess....when you walk into Subway, McDoanlds, or an internet cafe...and they have PORNOGRAPHIC websites blocked...let me guess, you protest because that's censorship, right?

If you don't like what is allowed and what is blocked at Subway, guess what...you can pay for your own internet at your house.

Seriously man...you are using the word censorship as freely as teenie boppers use the word love.

reply to post by zappafan1

REPLY:Yes, they are state employees, but they are not elected; there's your difference. Don't you get it??? ..... joining a "group" doesn't give you a voice, it takes away from it, because the "group" speaks for you..... supposedly. What hasn't been mentioned is that the teachers don't deserve what they make now, let alone giving them more. Only 40% of the Madison 8th grade students read at a proficient level (meaning 4th grade reading capabilities.) No, people put themselves into categories by their education and therefore their earning capabilities.
Yes, some people have more "worth" than others, all through history and in all cultures and countries.

So, since firefighters and police are not elected, and they are public employees - why should they reap the rewards of the masses? I agree on your statements of "groupism" but I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.

The only reason people have more worth than others is because people place them there. Do you think that a starving child has less worth then the politician or bank that disables the parents from feeding that child? Further more, what is the reason people have to starve at all? What about the worth of humanity as a whole? People put themselves into categories because of the ebb and flow of society around them, but what is the meaning behind how people got to the categories they 'exist' within? Isn't it just an implementation of how people view other people under an illusion of what we are told to "be" or to "do"?

What creates the illusion of power that you and I live under? I am attacking the problem directly - it is money... it is materialism. Check out my thread in my signature and see how I really think - and who is to blame. We need to evolve beyond the hurt that the illusions around us have created.

Peace.

So, since firefighters and police are not elected, and they are public employees - why should they reap the rewards of the masses? I agree on your statements of "groupism" but I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.

The only reason people have more worth than others is because people place them there. Do you think that a starving child has less worth then the politician or bank that disables the parents from feeding that child? Further more, what is the reason people have to starve at all? What about the worth of humanity as a whole? People put themselves into categories because of the ebb and flow of society around them, but what is the meaning behind how people got to the categories they 'exist' within? Isn't it just an implementation of how people view other people under an illusion of what we are told to "be" or to "do"?

What creates the illusion of power that you and I live under? I am attacking the problem directly - it is money... it is materialism. Check out my thread in my signature and see how I really think - and who is to blame. We need to evolve beyond the hurt that the illusions around us have created.

Peace.

Nice post.

On a related note I am getting to the point where i am physically getting a stomach ache listening to my fellow state employees bitch for 8 hours a day, every single day.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by MMPI2

 

Apparently, you've been listening to too much anti-union propaganda.

Utilizing the National Guard against state employees?

I'm sure you'd be enthusiastic if they decided to utilize the National Guard against citizens next?

Well there was explicit talk of "bloodying" Tea party protesters by union members....a call to violence. It was in Craigs list, and the ad also explicity included Obama as calling for this activity....for the record.

This union stuff has been engineered by the world Socialist movement.

The World Socialist Website claims that the US tried to suppress the protests in Egypt and Tunisia, which is highly interesting considering the WH occupant did and said almost nothing in public, nor did he send any ground troops to support Mubarak....one has to wonder...
www.wsws.org...
"The United States is working intensively to suppress mass protests in both Tunisia and Egypt and prop up the local ruling elites that are entirely subordinate to American imperialism. It is using different tactics in the two countries, dictated in large part by their relative strategic importance to US ruling class interests in the Middle East."

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by Gooey6

 

What are you talking about? Walker blocked specific Web sites from the State Capitol's free Wifi; this isn't an "employee only" WAP but set up for visitors to the capitol. He targeting "unfriendly" Web sites.

www.dailykos.com...

Pro-union website blocked in Wisconsin Capitol

Walker Administration in Wisconsin Accused of Blocking Access to Pro-Union Website

Former Wisconsin Assistant Attorney General Charles Hoornstra said that, if Walker is blocking the website, it could be a violation of state and federal laws concerning free speech laws.

This isn’t the first time the state government has been accused of cutting off Internet access. The Teaching Assistants Association earlier accused state authorities of cutting off Wi-Fi access to a room they had taken over as a headquarters inside of the Capitol.

Some of the activists in Madison used the occasion to draw comparisons with Internet shutdowns in Egypt and Libya. CNN picked up the story, taking it nationwide, and Sachin Chheda, a Democratic activist and former IT employee at the Capitol, said someone inside the government would have to consciously add the website to a blacklist for the software to block access.

“I doubt Gov. Walker himself ordered the block, but some of his associates treat the 1st Amendment as something worthy of defending only when it protects their point of view,” Jeson opines. “Imagine what would happen if the Capitol Wi-Fi blocked Fox News or one of several anti-union, pro-Walker websites that popped up at the same time defendwisconsin.org was launched; I am not surprised none of those sites favorable to the governor’s position have complained about similar blocks.”

The governor’s office late in the day tried to change the subject.

It's amazing that when tryanny does raise it's ugly head here in the States, how many people genuflect before it simply because it targets their political opponents. Yet once the precedent has been set, it remains entrenched.

I assume then, that if and when Dems start blocking pro-republican Web sites from locations they are in power, that you would be okay with that?

That goes for the other side too buddy, and how come Obama and his friends renewed the PATRIOT ACT?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Nice post.

Keeping with the same site you just used (Even tho this is posted all over) Walker is now using option B, which I have been mentioning to my fellow state employees since day 1 of their whining.

www.wsws.org...

LAYOFFS.

12,000 of them to be exact.

Hopefully, the protesters against Walker finally realize that they were never looking at the big picture, just their own paychecks, and Wisconsin can move on as a state.

reply to post by zappafan1


Hmm, looks like some Koch infiltrators have found there way to ATS

Look... The national guard was alerted because of all the folks tying up business at the capitol. They are preventing the peoples business from being carried out; they are preventing democratic principals from taking place; they are NOT exercising democracy, they are running away from it, the cowards they are.

Sort of like the "cowards" who were "tying up" Tahrir Square in Egypt?

Sort of like the silent protester who had to be removed from Hilary Clintons recent speech?

So when the revolution does come, you think the army should be turned out to oppress these "cowards"?

What a load of double-speak.

I can only hope that when TPTB come to strip away your rights, there's someone left to stick up for you, but chances are by then there won't be anyone left.

".... I assume then, that if and when Dems start blocking pro-republican Web sites from locations they are in power, that you would be okay with that?"

REPLY: Oh..... you mean like Obama now having the kill switch on the internet?

That's just another example of your deflecting from the issue; For one, we have an actual case of Web censoring by a sitting governor, for the other, a bill that has not been signed into law, in part sponsored by a republican. Obama actually has nothing to do with the "kill switch", you should take it up with the bill's authors:

In 2010, the bill's sponsors -- Lieberman, Maine Republican Susan Collins and Delaware Democrat Tom Carper -- introduced a wide-ranging cybersecurity bill that would have defined emergency powers that the president could use, including shutting down parts of the Internet, when there's an "ongoing or imminent" cyberattack on the nation's critical infrastructure.

Call them up to complain about the kill switch. Obama didn't write, sign it, or request it.