Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker Readies National Guard Against Unions

reply to post by HellstormRising


I'm sure it's easy to call someone that doesnt agree with you "naive", but that is a very closed minded way of looking at things.

It doesn't matter why Walker is doing what he is doing, he's elected, and this is how democracy works, like it or not.

I don't support what Walker is doing, but the response that it's getting is ridiculous...what would people prefer a massive layoff?

The money that we save at our job with NO DEDUCTIBLE AT ALL, including coverage for chiropractic care, psychologists, etc. that people go to several times a week make this job infinitely better than a private sector job of the same sort.

Don't be naive and pretend you understand the inner workings of state jobs if you have never worked one.

I've been here a long time and I know how people play the system.

Lol I love politics.. The Government of Wisonsin just made a significant rule change to the way the government operates.

Paychecks can no longer be by direct deposit. They must now show up, in person, to get their check. This is an across the board change, affecting everyone, making the move legal.

reply to post by Gooey6


You forgot to mention how union thugs routinely break into maternity wards to eat the brains of newborns.

I've actually found that union shops tend to have very strict rules on schedules. Being in the A/E business, I work with a lot of building trades, almost all of which are union, which have contractual stipulations on their schedules. Lazy workers exist in any profession, as the saying goes, the **** sinks to the bottom, they're aren't welcome in a union any more than they are in non-union shop.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Well I'm glad to see your warming up to me (I think)

I wish someone like you was in charge of our union, because literally the union runs the show. People can NOT be fired.

We had a payment services employee not show up for 2 weeks straight, so did they fire her? NO, they hired a LTE to work....then the woman shows up again and guess who got canned? The LTE.

No questions asked.

Not all unions are created equal i guess

Originally posted by Black_Fox

Anyone else around the country hearing similar reports from their states?

I just got back home yesterday from Wisconsin. I did drive through the capitol on my way home from Sparta Wisconsin where I was visiting family. There was definately more than a thousand people "protesting", most seemed to side with the keeping bargaining rights.

I would like to think the idea of martial law,would be used in the worse case scenarios,not as a threat.

Announcing martial law via all media outlets is not a measure those in charge during martial law would use, I think.
Look at 9-11 for example. All air space was closed down for days exept to the military and high government officials. America's military instalations were brought to their highest defense posture. Aspects of martial law were very visible, even reported on, but "martial law" was never technically made publicly known, and such rhetoric was not used by any news agencies.

My point here is simply: Martial Law would not be announced publicly, just implimented in a stealthier way as to not make the people more anxious or nervous about what is going on.

I think the governor of Wisconsin may have delusions about what democracy is supposed to be.

Democracy = Collective Bargaining as a Right.

If the national guard gets called in .... I'll be more than willing to go back to Wisconsin, to show my support for Firefighters, Teachers, and public servants who deserve better.

What if Teachers made as much money as Babysitters do ... per student ???

These are some of my thoughts on this particular issue, but I'm still taking the facts in, and my opinion may change with the information I may garner in the future.

Have a nice day ATSers,
somsom

reply to post by somsom


BTW Wisonsinites around the state's capital will probably have to use a proxy to visit that link you posted as Governor Walker has implemented Web censorship to block sites unfriendly to his Koch-backed "cause".

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


lol - Blackmarketeer you are hilarious. It was only blocked IN the capitol...it's no different than US Bank blocking facebook.com so their employees can stay on track.

Seriously, I'm all against censorship, but some things people are complaining about, like this, are simply non-issues.

Originally posted by nivekronnoco
reply to post by brill

 

By turning down the stimulus money....2300 jobs were eliminated....
He's a facist...trying to destroy the middle class....

REPLY: Jobs that were not yet started can't be eliminated. The rail train would have been a bust, with Wisconsin taxpayers subsidizing it year after year.... like Amtrak. So, he actually SAVED money for Wisconsin taxpayers.
And, please, look up the definition of the words you use. Actually, I found this: Fascism; Noun: An adherent of fascism or other right-wing authoritarian views. Unfortunately, that is not correct, although the New York Times has been saying that since WW2. Fascism means national socialism, which is a Leftists view of the ideal society.

Originally posted by kroms33
reply to post by autowrench

 

If they work for government, we are the company here, we are the boss. In my considered opinion, every Public Servant should make no more that a Private 1st Class in the Army does.
They provide their own insurance, and they answer to We the People.

But wait, what you are saying is: The government and banks messed up, so the commoners have to eat it? If you are employed, does your employer offer you a discounted insurance package (group)? I don't know about you and what you are involved in – but state employees STILL have to pay for their medical benefits... you act like they get these things for free. Union members STILL have to pay for their OWN insurance. What on earth are you talking about?

Again, another of the uninformed, making assumptions.

In your opinion – you believe public servants should make no more then a PFC? So, in essence – you condone people not making a living wage?

Lets look at what a PFC makes a month these days:

Applicable to E-1 with 4 months or more active duty. Basic pay for an E-1 with less than 4 months of active duty is $1,357.20.

Are you also suggesting that Police and Firefighters need the same scale?

Why would you base any government pay off of a PFC pay? That suggests that you don't believe our military is voluntary – as you would wish Public Servants to suffer the same hardships as being in the military. Your views soud very much like some wacked out repressive federalist ideology.

Flawed thinking from an old dying system that needs to be re-booted.

edit on 2/15/2011 by kroms33 because: (no reason given)

REPLY: I agree with you somewhat, but taxpayers in Wisconsin pay 87% of teachers health care premiums, and 100% match of what they put into their pension. Too damn much.

Originally posted by RickyD

Originally posted by Califemme
Unions are good for one thing: Getting the most amount of pay for the least amount of work.

Which sounds really good... unless you own a business. When you own a business, your main concern is how to get the most work (productivity) for the least amount of pay. In otherwords, to turn a profit. That is a dirty word to unions, don't you think?

PROFIT.

Unions would rather that the business owner make LESS profit so that the WORKERS get greater PAY.

Why would ANYBODY open a business if that's the case?

And if you are so inclined to open a business under those circumstances, please let everyone here at ATS know! (Because from the sounds of it, you'd have a tsunami of applications

"...Ok lets be honest here what's worse putting money in the hands of a few or one person or the hands of many like the employees? Yes that's right unions won't let a person like you give unfair wages to a person like me just so you can grow YOUR business!"

REPLY: "unfair" wages is an arbitrary number, and differs from person to person. Bagging groceries is not worth $10 or more dollars an hour. Yeah... we don't want the employer to actually GROW the business and hire more people. Let's pay you more than your job is worth (like most unions do), and you do twice the work. OK?

"...I do not benefit from your business making more profit unless you pay me more and that doesn't seem like what you wanna do so I would need a union to keep you from being a greedy employer and running me into poverty while you get rich...Get real man put yourself in each pair of shoes and tell me what's worse.

REPLY: Yes, you DO benefit because that way the doors stay open. You're b*tching about you not making enough yet your employer, who has invested the money, time and effort, has to live on what seems fair to you? Educate yourself, start your own business, and see what it's like. For what it's worth, I was in a union for two decades, I've been a steward and I, too, have seen the inside; and it's very ugly. Virginia has no unions and they have a budget surplus. We didn't bail out GM, we bailed out the FAILED union process that put GM in the hole in the first place. But, Dems make multi-millions from unions for their campaigns, so we all see how corrupt THAT scene is like. Look at any large company or corporation that is having trouble, and it's always the unions or government intrusion at the core.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by somsom

 

BTW Wisonsinites around the state's capital will probably have to use a proxy to visit that link you posted as Governor Walker has implemented Web censorship to block sites unfriendly to his Koch-backed "cause".

REPLY: GOOD!! One or two web sites aren't the only way to get information around. By the way.... Huffington? Ha Ha Ha Ha That's as bad a source as Wiki

lol - Blackmarketeer you are hilarious. It was only blocked IN the capitol...it's no different than US Bank blocking facebook.com so their employees can stay on track.

lol, and THAT makes it okay by you. It's just a little bit of censorship. baby steps, right? The fact they would even stoop to do that...

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Lol I love politics.. The Government of Wisonsin just made a significant rule change to the way the government operates.

Paychecks can no longer be by direct deposit. They must now show up, in person, to get their check. This is an across the board change, affecting everyone, making the move legal.

REPLY: I'm hoping for an amendment to the state constitution that says if a senator leaves the state for more than two days to stop the democratic process (which is exactly what they are doing), you're fired, and there will be an election in 30 days to replace you.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by prexparte
reply to post by Black_Fox

 

I think unions deflate wages. You pay high union dues, when you get a raise they get a percent of it. If you get the mob union out you would make more.

Yeah ...."professional associations" of doctors, lawyers, etc. help kep their salaries down........rofl.....what - you don't think they are unions?? Man those "professions" keep the shop shut good and tight and ensure they get to cream the system!

Lack of unions helps wages in 2 circumstances:

1/ highly skilled worders do not get "dragged down" - I remember about 30 yrs ago local aircraft mechanics hada "complexity allowance" in a contract, and baggage loaders wanted it too - the mechanics siad "F-off - loading isnt' any more complicated", the union said "hang on...these are your brothers...", etc - so everyone got it at a lower rate so teh total payment was the same.

that's jsut a off-the-cuff example I know of personally 'cos I was one of the mechanics!!

2/ strike/union breaking - employers offer higher pay to non-union staff.....htenonce the union or strike is broken the wages drop, and long term the bosses make money out of it.

So, are you still a mechanic....? Best job I ever had was a rampee...what made it the best job, was because it was UNION !!!!

Originally posted by zappafan1

REPLY: I'm hoping for an amendment to the state constitution that says if a senator leaves the state for more than two days to stop the democratic process (which is exactly what they are doing), you're fired, and there will be an election in 30 days to replace you.

I say if they don't do what I like, somebody bashes em over and sells their meats to Taco Bell!

Or they need tanks to run em socialisters over!

We need to use the government to make sure we get them results we need!

Originally posted by Califemme
reply to post by RickyD

 

I am to be penalized because you aren't smart enough or ambitious enough to start your own business? You want the unions to suck my business dry? So who wins when I can no longer afford to employ people and have to close my doors? The unions? The employees? Me? I think not.

Get off your butt and be a productive member of society. Need more money? Then a learn a skill that makes you more money. It's not my job or other people's jobs to take care of you. It's your momma's job to teach you to take care of yourself. Then, it's YOUR job to take care of yourself and your family. Not mine, not the governments. And if you disagree, then I believe there are other countries you can go to.

America is a special place simply because noone here is better than anyone else. If you work hard, you can get somewhere in life. I don't "owe" you something because I've been able to do better for myself and my family. That's your problem.

First not everyone can own a business some people have to work for them...and on a personal note I haven't had to work for anyone including my union in 3 years.

You are obviously missing the simple point put forth because you can only look at things from your side, but let me explain one more time...the goal of the employee and employer are opposite of each other. Employers want to increase profit while workers want to increase wages...simple enough can we agree here? The guy who owns the business would say "oh you don't wanna work for X$ an hour I'll find someone else" even if X is a low ball wage. Unions protect my right to a fair wage! Now sometimes this can go a little too far as nothing in this world works perfect, but I'll take that over being a slave to a corporation any day! NO you don't owe anyone anything in that regard EXCEPT a fair wage and fair treatment in the work place...now maybe you are one of the people who don't have a problem with this but I can assure you not every employer is. IMO though from the way you say things like "I don't "owe" you something because I've been able to do better for myself and my family. That's your problem."...you're not one of those people.

"...Ok lets be honest here what's worse putting money in the hands of a few or one person or the hands of many like the employees? Yes that's right unions won't let a person like you give unfair wages to a person like me just so you can grow YOUR business!"

REPLY: "unfair" wages is an arbitrary number, and differs from person to person. Bagging groceries is not worth $10 or more dollars an hour. Yeah... we don't want the employer to actually GROW the business and hire more people. Let's pay you more than your job is worth (like most unions do), and you do twice the work. OK?

"...I do not benefit from your business making more profit unless you pay me more and that doesn't seem like what you wanna do so I would need a union to keep you from being a greedy employer and running me into poverty while you get rich...Get real man put yourself in each pair of shoes and tell me what's worse.

REPLY: Yes, you DO benefit because that way the doors stay open. You're b*tching about you not making enough yet your employer, who has invested the money, time and effort, has to live on what seems fair to you? Educate yourself, start your own business, and see what it's like. For what it's worth, I was in a union for two decades, I've been a steward and I, too, have seen the inside; and it's very ugly. Virginia has no unions and they have a budget surplus. We didn't bail out GM, we bailed out the FAILED union process that put GM in the hole in the first place. But, Dems make multi-millions from unions for their campaigns, so we all see how corrupt THAT scene is like. Look at any large company or corporation that is having trouble, and it's always the unions or government intrusion at the core.

reply to post by zappafan1


To address your first point I never said we should be paying people more than they're job is worth...hence "fair wage" and the whole "like most unions do" statement is an ASSumption you're making with out any way to back that up...in REALITY its YOUR OPINION!

Now on to the second point... "Yes, you DO benefit because that way the doors stay open. You're b*tching about you not making enough yet your employer, who has invested the money, time and effort, has to live on what seems fair to you?" No they have to pay me a fair wage for my work and can't sacrifice my wage to make more themselves if the business doesn't make enough to do that then it's a failed venture. I would never work for an employer that said well I'm gonna pay you 10$ an hour to build this 23 semi truck load set for this show and get it done in the next 5-6 hrs...it's hard and sometimes dangerous work...yet if your not union in my line of work you will get that or less I have seen it time and time again and in more than one state as well!

Virginia does have unions look up IATSE local 285...I think what you mean is it's a right to work state. If you look up Virginia's budget for 2011 we are deficit too Check Here

Now on to the GM statement well your just flat wrong I don't even know where you get that from...in fact they have no clue what happened to most of that bail out money most of those businesses gave they're corporate people some big ol' bonuses and those corporate guys aren't union at all...

Sounds like you need to take that argument back to the drawing board....

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Okay, so let's just say for the moment you are right...even this little bit of censorship is TERRIBLE.

Tell me why people have not been protesting this at places like McDonalds and Subway and banks across the nation, then?

Why am I not hearing, "We will walk out because I can't access my facebook account from the manager's office at Subway."

Because it's unrelated to work, that's why. And only a complete moron would complain about that and consider it censorship. They can go to their homes and access these sites can they not?

If you are on taxpayer's time, why not stop surfing the net and actually focus on your job...maybe that's just too much to ask of them.

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by Black_Fox

 

Isn't it ironic/hypocritical that Gov. Walker and the legislators can legislate themselves a pay raise but if the people that actually do the work want to bargain collectively; walker threatens to bring out the Guard.

Walker better be careful, the Guard may turn on him because probably they have family in the unions.

I thank God for my union representation AFTRA/SAG because without them I would have no retirement and no healthcare coverage, because the production companies won't provide it.

Don't like the way your company treats you? There is a solution!! Unions..Kickinass for the working class!!

REPLY: What.... you can't save for your own future like most people do? Gov't raises for gov't workers are in the state (and federal) constitution, not for general workers.

edit on 14-2-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

Random update of Wisconsin, state funded, University office:

7:45am - 9:00am
Employee 1: Has taken 4 personal calls and also attended birthday party in next door office...has yet to answer phone call.
Missed calls: 4
Employee 2: Didn't show up until 8:50am, took personal cell phone call, attended birthday party.
Missed calls: 5
Manager: Has not sat down at computer desk, sitting next to employee #1 gossiping between calls. Attended birthday party.
Answered calls: 0

9:00am - 10:15am
All employees (except for me) sitting in middle of office ranting about Scott Walker future assassination. I feel it's worth noting here that the manager of the office has yet to log in to her computer.
Missed calls: 7


Does this happen in the private sector?