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Dome Of The Rock UFO: Hoaxes Are Easy - Extended Discussion.

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posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:21 AM
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Am i wrong in saying that the 3rd Jerusalem vid (which your nice work emulates) was never really doubted to be anything but a hoax, here on ATS?

It was the other 2 previous vids that were more compelling and worthy of debate. I know these 2 vids also had their debunkers - with compelling cases - but IMO they were never fully debunked.

My 2 cents:

The highly obvious fakery of the 3rd vid could suggest it was manufactured and released in order to discredit the first 2 vids.

The question is, who has the motive? TPTB?

Whoever it is, the release of this 3rd vid, if looked at in this scenario, suggests the first 2 vids are of importance and lends credence their authenticity. Moreover, because of that 3rd vid, most people have discounted the first 2...

Also, the fact that the MSN didn't pick up the more authentic first 2 vids, but did run the poorly faked 3rd one (i saw it on the main evening national news) suggests this kind of manipulation may be afoot...

Ask yourself: If faked, then why would the skilled creators of the first 2 vids ruin their hoax with a 3rd vid far below the skill level they'd exhibited in the quality of the first 2?

Perhaps the 3rd vid was hoaxed by someone else in response to the first 2 (without a any connection between the hoaxers).
Or perhaps the 3rd vid was an organized operation to discredit the first 2...

But whether the first 2 vids are real or not, IMO the 3rd most certainly has a different author.

And what with a baby apparently discovered there, this is still a case that's far from closed.






edit on 15-2-2011 by McGinty because: Edited for immediately spelling.




posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:32 AM
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Maybe I have not read enough of the comments, but has anyone else noticed the amazing similarity between the Jerusalem and the Utah ufos? Someone please respond! WHAT THE HELL THIS IS BLOWING MY MIND. NO WAY PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD ARE SETTING UP A HOAX LIKE THIS. www.youtube.com... It looks exactly the same. I make no claims as to knowing what this is, only that something has been seen in these cases, they are not hoaxes. Remember John Keel anyone? www.youtube.com... Pay attention particularly the last minute.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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the whole series of videos need to be analysed properly .. from the source preferably



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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that's good and all, and I'm glad that you took up the challenge to re-create the video, however the initial challenge was to re-create 3 views all at the same time, with the flash of light and trajectory of the UFO identical in each view.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:07 AM
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Very nice work there SkO.

To be honest, I was slightly siding with the genuine crowd. I have little knowledge of computer graphics and couldn't see how it could be faked in that many videos by one bloke. I thought it would have taken a team of bored people with naff all else to do and a decent budget. What with the numerous people on video/audio and how cool it looked. Although I too found it mighty strange that there weren't a lot of witnesses and people being interviewed by sensationalist journo's from across the world. It ain't exactly a remote spot in the antarctic.

No offense intended to you at all as I'm sure you're a busy man, but it's a shame it took so long for somebody in the know to prove it could easily be faked. At least it provided for a bit of fun banter between the rabid skeps and the rabid believers. Fair play. I enjoyed reading the threads.

What was you're opinion on first viewing and after the second and then third and then fourth vid came out. Did it smell fishy immediately? The one with the American tourists voices was the stinkiest to me. Videos one and two looked very convincing at first glance no? Although looking back, as you said, you'd have expected a bigger reaction from the mobile phone man..

The only downer is that MSM did get a hold of it. Our cause does not need this one little bit.

Again, fair play to you brother.

Laze


edit on 15-2-2011 by lazernation because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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brilliant! thanks for this.

can we have a version without the "this is a reconstruction" banner so I can send it to Michael Cohen?
He'll add it to the archive of dross he's collected and labelled real evidence.


edit on 15-2-2011 by ceetee because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:30 AM
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I can’t believe that some made this video. This video that was presented here is a complete fake, just look at it. If I see this video for the first time, I would say that is a fake. I also would say that little effort was done to create.

For the Jerusalem videos, come on, don’t play around it’s a simple video with and orb flying around absolutely no pixel on video that might indicate that some light was put on it. No rendering effect like the one in this video and the light source was so perfect with everything. In this video the light source didn’t match and some time to fast that it look fake, so many thing that I would like to point out.

Again what about the Utah videos no one wants to crack those hoaxers. All the debunkers should be jumping at the Utah videos.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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What are you saying?!1

These videos ARE REAL!

When I press play, they PLAY OMG! and when I press stop, they STOP (tis true)... That makes them quite real to me, in my own little world...

I am having lunch, food does strange things to my sensibility.

Back to the post, yes my belief also, that a group of people, with a lot of time (this wasn't done over a weekend), resources and skill can pull this off.

Which begs the question, if Lollywood tried this, just how well could it be done? good enough to fool the masses, even a tinfoil cap wearing nerd like me?



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Your detailing of the issues here is very good and I for one appreciate the effort. But that being said (and genuinely meant), I am still of the mind that just because something can be fabricated in the PC lab, it does not necessarily mean that it was. And in the case of the first two videos vs. the second two, there does seem to be a broad separation between the pairings that is routinely (if not joyfully) ignored.

*deep breath*

Sir, realizing that this website is your digital property, I recognize and respect your right to do with it as you wish. So, tagging this (and other) threads/topics under the [Hoax] header is your call to make.

But if I may, I would like to close this comment by indirectly referencing a post from a week or so back when someone asked whether to expect that this site, its members and their posts are monitored by any of a whole slew of external agencies... aka alphabet soup: FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, NASA, etc. The reply was from another member, whose name I do not recall at the moment, who basically said that (not quoting) considering the subject matter discussed here and that a large segment of the conspiracy theory corps call ATS home, they would be very surprised if these guys were NOT present.

Indeed. I had to agree.

And then it occurred to me that... while maybe just a tad unlikely, it is possible that ATS is not only watched by those in cardboard suits and headphones, but could just as easily be a direct op of one of those same, aforementioned, government-funded acronyms. I mean, what a better way to get to know a whole world of people who think outside the box and defy official storylines than to create a virtual conspiratorial garden of eden for them to play in?

Silly, huh?

Thanks for fine website and regardless of who is actually behind the curtains pulling the levers, I have every intention of playing in this park for as long as I am allowed


-Redoubt








edit on 15-2-2011 by redoubt because: Typo



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by old_god
 


Sign of the times....anyone seen wag the dog? Or how about some "real" reductionist "philosophy" about what is "real" and what is "not" ehh?


seriously though, until they fill up the sky and suck all of our souls up to use as an energy source to continue on their universe wide swath of destruction, no one is going to believe.....but thats coming soon enough so....party on dude!



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


So what were the over 8 witnesses who wrote on that israeli forum ? Also part of the hoax ? Seems like they went VERY VERY far for a hoax, and they didnt even claim to it ? Like most large hoaxes do. Doesnt add up.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


A brilliant display that reinforces the arguments of the skeptics. It's simply to easy with the tech available today to launch a convincing hoax and have it go viral before anyone can rein in the chatter. Simply put all videos of this nature must be approached from a skeptical point of view. However for many the term "skeptic" has become a dirty word, a term used to describe someone who believes in nothing unless its sitting in their lap. Thats a bit unfair though as the best skeptics on ATS often want to believe in a given issue, they just don't believe in giving away their integrity to just any faceless youtube video poster.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Draken
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


So what were the over 8 witnesses who wrote on that israeli forum ? Also part of the hoax ? Seems like they went VERY VERY far for a hoax, and they didnt even claim to it ? Like most large hoaxes do. Doesnt add up.


I couldn't agree more. The OP doesn't prove the UFO sighting are a hoax with his crude videos. I think this is a real sighting -- and it is tied to the delivery of the Baby.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by Draken
So what were the over 8 witnesses who wrote on that israeli forum ? Also part of the hoax ? Seems like they went VERY VERY far for a hoax, and they didnt even claim to it ? Like most large hoaxes do. Doesnt add up.


They can be active participants in the hoax without being an actual part of the hoax. There are those who will happily lie in order to support paranormal claims.

What they are doing isn't "very far"; having a few friends or making a few sock-puppets to back-up your claims isn't hard.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by JennyMon
 


Ive come to the conclusion that anything that ends up on websites like ATS, where debunking is the main objective, will always end up being debunked, even if it was true or real.

It seems the world is waiting for a large starship to come plowing through the atmosphere and stop over a huge town and shadow it. Sorry guys but thats only in the movies. If aliens are real and have the tech to travel across the universe then i highly doubt they will have LARGE starships like we always see in movies.
It reminds of me of years ago when people were disproving the moon landing. They find artifacts and strange things in the video, only to not understand that those things were there because they were ON the moon, yet people used the evidence as proof that they WERNT on the moon, but on a stage. Really reminds me of this whole thing.

I agree with the OP, we cant look at videos for proof of reality anymore, but in the same respect, you cant go disprove something just because you can recreate the video, that's just being ignorant.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by JPhish

C.
City lights are all immobile
No cars or movement of any kind except for that of the UFO
Lights not flickering
etc.


Just a clarification: there were lights of cars moving in the fourth video in the foreground. Nonetheless, I am not contending to the validity of the videos.

From a sociological perspective, what can be ascertained from Skeptic Overlord's video is, as he stated, video can be faked and you have to start from the perspective of skepticism first. Therefore, like every other thread on ATS that gains pages and pages of responses, there is usually an ignorance being worked out there.

And that is what makes ATS great.
edit on 15-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by JennyMon
I couldn't agree more. The OP doesn't prove the UFO sighting are a hoax with his crude videos. I think this is a real sighting -- and it is tied to the delivery of the Baby.


Science -- you're doing it wrong.

No amount of evidence can prove anything 100%; however, a preponderance of evidence can show us what is most likely. And the preponderance of evidence here is that the Jerusalem videos are a hoax. That slight chance that it may not be a hoax does not prove it is real; in order for you to cogently argue that the videos depict a real event, you need to not only explain what evidence points to it being real, but explain how the evidence pointing to it being a hoax does not. But thus far, all you have done is clench your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and dismiss it.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by WingedBull
 


Your asking this person to describe to you how an alien craft could do what it does ? lol Nice one


Anyways, like i said a post up. If videos can not be used as proof now, then you cant disprove events via making your own video.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by BACONHAWK
Sorry if this has been asked but, how did they light up dark streets and little dark areas that you could not see until the ufo flashes?

Depending on what software you use, you can achieve this effect by applying filters. Artists (photographers, video, web, and designers) are trained to see and manipulate light sources.

THE ELEMENTS OF DESIGN
~ Line
~ Space
~ Shape (Form)
~ Perspective
~ Texture
~ Color
~ Value

THE PRINCIPLES OF DESIGN
~ Balance
~ Repetition
~ Contrast
~ Harmony
~ Dominance
~ Unity

While you take courses in college, you are drilled on 'the principles' and 'the elements' of design. We are trained to spend hours upon hours to achieve perfection. With the right type of training and experience, manipulating photography and video is like flipping a switch.

edit on 15-2-2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


So, because you cannot argue the evidence, explain why the Jerusalem video depicts a real event or how the evidence that it is a hoax can be explained does not in fact, you instead rely on special-pleading red-herring arguments. Condensed, your argument is "Evidence does not matter, if something is debunked, it is because of a conspiracy".

Redoubt: 1

Critical Thinking: 0



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