67% of Pakistani journalists say US drones attacks are acts of terrorism: survey

Originally posted by FarArcher
The one thing that's clear is that these events are not war crimes, nor are they debatable.

They're just finessing our technologies, our flying, our search patterns, our detection devices, our optics, and our ground intelligence.

No one else in the WORLD has this level of expertise on hunting down guerrillas.

These guys deserve a lot of credit for the outstanding hardware and software adaptations they've accomplished, mating with warheads and missiles.

Your prevoius answer to me was I should not respond to any more of your posts.

I would expect that from somebody who doesn't like getting asked awkward questions. Not going to happen.

To this post I would say that you might think it's not a crime to murder people but others may take a different view.

You call it smart technology.... I call it shooting fish in a barrel .... nothing smart about it.

reply to post by FarArcher

Now. Better your innocents?

Or theirs?

I don't subscribe to the belief that Predator drones, or even occupation at large of middle eastern countries prevent attacks on US soil. I actually believe they make them more likely. Because of our seemingly complete opposite views of the matter, I don't see this conversation going anywhere.

one cant but wonder where this world is going to judging by some of the posts ,

killing a killer makes you a killer , its as simple as that ,

in technical terms : you are no better then the one you try to eliminate,even more hypocritical if anything

is that the legacy we are striving for ?

reply to post by zerbot565


If we don't eliminate certain killers then they will keep killing. That's common sense.

Originally posted by SirMike
These Paki "journalists" can spare me their sanctimonious bull$hit on "American terrorism". These are the same guys who applaud incidents like this: www.youtube.com...

Sometimes I wish Pakistan would fall to the fundies so India would have a reason to wipe them off the map.

So we are the thought police now too?

reply to post by LoverBoy


who are these "killers" you speak of ,
who funded them
who trained them

i could go on but i guess it would be a waste of my time,

for sake of argument , would it be considered a terrorist act if canada started flying drones over to the u.s and targeting certain stuff because they believe in free health care or call their bacon hash ham ?

Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by Johnze

 

Johnszzz or whatever

Lol, you try to show your disdain by revealing you can't read, anger comes easy to you and a tendency to lash out, by god I'm glad I don't have to live near you, even more glad I'm not in your family, I bet you're horrific to be around when you're upset.

Who needs to argue the point when entities like yourself are revealing the bankruptcy of the other point of view, it's just a murderous rage justifying the killing of children to enable some fat cats to get richer, pathetic.

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by FarArcher

 

Your prevoius answer to me was I should not respond to any more of your posts.

I would expect that from somebody who doesn't like getting asked awkward questions.

How ironic, are you going to answer my question? If you’re going to suggest something so ridiculous then you had better have good grounds for doing so. Does this mean that you were jumping to conclusions and that you didn’t properly understand my post?

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


I have little sympathy for the militants the strikes do actually kill, but of course the fact that this appears to be routinely gotten wrong and civilian bystanders killed is of course abhorrent.

The fact of course remains that these are illegal violations of Pakistani sovereign territory, forbidden under the UN Charter, not that the US ever bothers to pay attention to it...

reply to post by fooks


you see ? That's why this planet needs some cleaning!
Because specimens like you!
Can I kill you slowly?
I'm a super cool government , so hey W T F ?!
Please die!

Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed

 

But I guarantee you, not one single person who would decry such action had their butts on the line, exposed to their personal death each moment of each day.

Well I'm not sure how true that is to be honest. I don't think every single person in Bomber Command in WW2 was entirely without any consideration whatsoever for the bombing of german cities and particularly the fire-bombing of Dresden. The Germans were doing it to us but alas, two wrongs do not make a right.

Even though you made a rather good argument, I still disagree with your thesis because it fundamentally predicated on the idea that we are involved in the total and traditional type of warfare we knew in World War II. That is just not true. We do not fight a uniformed enemy, nor even the military of a sovereign nation. They don't have 'innocents', there are Taleban fighters/ Al Qaeda members, and then people just trying to get about their daily lives.

I have little problem disposing of the former. But at any cost incurred to the latter? I think that hard to justify.

Wow reading through this thread really makes you wonder.

If Pol Pot and Stalin murdered millions they didn't like or want why shouldn't we?

What's next if Hitler set up concentration camps why shouldn't we?

I of course can believe some people would imagine there is virtue in such thoughts since the above mentioned people truly existed.

Truly existed as morally bankrupt murderers their own people and much of humanity came to despise.

Indiscriminate killing is good, manly, and wise and those who don't believe so are bad, cowards and stupid.

It would probably be a great argument in a 14th Century Viking camp at a Berskerker workshop but honestly I think it just makes a whole lot of people scratch their heads and wonder if the people who are promoting this kind of argument have gone berskerk?

Being old enough to have known and spoken with veterans who lived through the most horific battles of World War I, World War II, Korea and Vietnam with the Purple Hearts and Silver and Bronze Stars to prove it, real soldiers who have seen real combat never talk about the horrors they witnessed and often did that haunt their dreams and night and many of their waking hours. They don't go around glorifying war or killing but realize it's the great tragedy that it is.

So I tend to think the overly macho crowd who glorifies klling and war here on ATS are either the out of shape armchair misfits they want to contend anyone who doesn't subcribe to their thinking is, and has never seen the down range or up range side of war up close and personal, either that or they are true Section 8 material that even militaries reject for a lack of self discipline and moral terpitude.

Wars are almost always started by old men who have never been in one and simply profit off of them, almost always fought by young men who know not what they are being tasked to do, and far too often the vast number of people who die in them are innocent men women and children who have never done a thing to hurt anyone.

People just like me and you.

Yes as some would cry "we have a right to voice your opinion" the rest of us really still have a right to be worried though over it.

Veterans of wars, the people who saw the most action will tell you the real heros as far as soldiers who are concerned are the men who died on the battlefield.

If you are sitting on ATS extolling the virtues of war, and attempting to glorify it, you really are anything but a hero, in proto's book you are a zero!

Originally posted by Soshh

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by FarArcher

 

Your prevoius answer to me was I should not respond to any more of your posts.

I would expect that from somebody who doesn't like getting asked awkward questions.

How ironic, are you going to answer my question? If you’re going to suggest something so ridiculous then you had better have good grounds for doing so. Does this mean that you were jumping to conclusions and that you didn’t properly understand my post?

You've lost me m8

reply to post by bigyin




Answer the question that I asked you on page 4.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective



The US government are the biggest terrorists on the planet by a long way ......

list of some countries America has bombed since 1945

China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Belgian Congo 1964
Guatemala 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Lebanon 1982-84
Grenada 1983-84
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1981-92
Nicaragua 1981-90
Libya 1986
Iran 1987-88
Libya 1989
Panama 1989-90
Iraq 1991-2002
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1992-94
Croatia 1994 (of Serbs at Krajina)
Bosnia 1995
Iran 1998 (airliner)
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999
Afghanistan 2001-02

What a peace loving christian government they are....lol

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Oh no ... we are zeros in Proto's eyes! Anything but that!

Spend a couple of months in Afghanistan, or 20 like I did, and then tell me we are on the wrong side of history here.

Originally posted by SirMike
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Oh no ... we are zeros in Proto's eyes! Anything but that!

Spend a couple of months in Afghanistan, or 20 like I did, and then tell me we are on the wrong side of history here.

The history that displays Afghanistan is the grave yard of empires?

Oh boy, someone hasn't been paying attention to what goes on, on planet earth again.

Not only are you on the wrong side of history, but a thankless and stupid side of it too.

Evolution is something that occurs at it's own pace, your posts are proof positive of that!

Originally posted by Soshh
reply to post by bigyin

 

Answer the question that I asked you on page 4.

Ok I see the question now. Sorry I missed it before.

What I was trying to say, and I maybe have picked you up wrong, is that you seemed to be trying to shift the blame of the deaths of innocent bystanders away from those firing the missiles to those who they were aimed at.

If that is what you are saying then I don't agree. If a killer in the US grabs a hostage or is holed up near to bystanders, the Police do not show up with all guns blazing. They take time to clear the area or try to corner the villain and talk him in surrendering. It would not be acceptable to simply raze the building to the ground then High Five each other at a job well done.

If it's good enough for US civilians then it should be the same for anyone else.