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A Conspiracy Of UFO aliens and United States Government:The Alien Truth (Dulce)

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posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by goatfish
 

In my opinion "Dulce Base" is the sort of subject that the research forum was designed for. It's my guess though that a research project might start to really cross the line into some sensitive security issues, due to it's popular association with D.U.M.B.S. Or maybe a research project on D.U.M.B.S. is in order?

I don't have unlimited time unfortunately. The water is so murky on this one that I can't help being curious. How about you guys?




posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by Peloquin
Hi!

First of all, thanks to Kandinsky and Greyer for their illuminative informations, because your posts delivered me some things I didn't already know about the Dulce story!

I've also read everything I could find about Dulce (the account of Thomas E. Castillo, Phil Schneider's claims, the Branton files, the Dulce Papers, etc.). And altough it should be obvious to dismiss the whole story of an alien operated D.U.M.B. in Dulce as Bogus because of the now known development of that possible myth, I still have difficulties to do so.

And that's because: Even if it's true, that Bennewitz was fed disinfo - there was something, that, as Greyer told in the previous post, attracted Bennewitz attention to that area. And that, according to Greyer's information, were UFOs above the Archuleta Mesa, and strange military activity there.



I too have many hard difficulties in believing in an alien DUMB, we all know the government builds DUMBs and it is the government network of inner tunnel connecting systems inside our earth, I wouldn't even be surpirsed if there was a tunnel from Pine Gap to Dulce, but all humans right no aliens. But, besides Paul Bennewitz what really intrigues me is the cattle mutilations of 1974, 1974 was the first year that the cattle mutilations started on a wide scale. From the small reports I have heard there start out to be evidence of military mutilations and UFO mutilations. In the UFO mutilations there was no sign of struggle and the animals had been hit by a beam, in the military mutilations there were clamps on the animals legs. By 1979 10,000 cattle had been mutilated and around 80% the reproductive organs were taken, also in 1978-79, the most mutilations took place in northern New Mexico. Paul mentioned in his Project Beta report that he was very well aware of the alien cattle mutilations and why they were doing them.

Where I got the year 1973 was from a researcher named Jim Bennett in a letter to Jacques Vallee dated Jan. 15, 1992 (ch. 4 of the Dulce book). Jim knew Paul and talked at length with him several times, Jim said that Paul claimed it was 1973 when he first took the pictures, here is the quote



He took many pictures of the construction going on, and according to Paul, he also took pictures of circular craft on the ground at this site which, as late as 1973.
The most revealing photos and their negatives disappeared in about 1975 when various 'fringe UFO experts' visited Paul. Also, his house was burglarized and ransacked more than once.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Thanks for your reply and the new informations you provide!

I never knew, that the cattle mutilations happened on such a large scale!! Ca. 10 000 by 1979... that is... VERY much...

Oh god... I just have an idea...


Originally posted by greyer
By 1979 10,000 cattle had been mutilated and around 80% the reproductive organs were taken, also in 1978-79, the most mutilations took place in northern New Mexico. Paul mentioned in his Project Beta report that he was very well aware of the alien cattle mutilations and why they were doing them.


(Emphasis by me)

WHY would anyone take the reproductive organs of cattle??? What could they be needed for...???

Breeding experiments???

Artificial wombs...



"Paul mentioned in his Project Beta report that he was very well aware of the alien cattle mutilations and why they were doing them."

What did he knew, why they were doing them...?

Just for one moment... you all know those weird stories of the nightmare hall, a fine piece of weird fiction we all enjoyed to read, didn't we?

But... what if...

I guess you know what's on my mind...

I'm just hesitating to express it.

...

edit on 15/2/11 by Peloquin because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by greyer
In 1980 a lot happened, he astoundingly created a video screen with his radio and computer, when this happened he gave a lecture in Albekerke admitting to have seen aliens.

Bennewitz believed Doty and Moore to be his friends, even though they were spying on him. They knew he had built a video-screen to pick up alien communications (I believe he built it under their direction...); the Air Force started transmitting images from old sci-fi movies to him, the source of his "aliens".


I have never heard Doty or Moore to have seen the video screen, please let me know the source. It is Doty's job to disinform the public, the whole disinformation campaign is to make the public believe Paul was over the edge, it worked because its hard for people to know they were shooting him up with chemicals to make him go insane and that they forced him into a hospital three times, after the third time it worked and he took down his equipment. Of course the government would said Paul messages from Dulce because as Paul figured out in the 70s this was a joint ET/military base. I know Paul thought they were friends, but he also knew they were stealing his UFO pictures and video while breaking into his house so I'm sure Paul didn't trust them.



Originally posted by goatfish

The story I read was that he was a pretty much psychotic at the point where he built the radio device. I read that he would ask it questions and then interpret static as yes/no responses like a ouija board while he believed he was communicating with an alien species at the Dulce base.

Anyway I think the stories are so polluted with fiction and dis-information at this point that you can't rely on any Dulce stories. If it was a disinformation program then I say, "Mission Accomplished."



He was not over the edge in the early days but a businessman, all the early reports credit him as being bery knowledgeable, he flew his plane to do business in Denver CO regularly, and worked with NASA and the Air Force providing them electronics instrumentals of his design and creation. I have heard many sources of him being highly respected and I'm doubting sources to claim otherwise. He was very silent in his beginning studies, nobody knew until he gave the lecture of the video screen, the video screen happened then the lecture right after, then the contact to Air Force. Good possibility Myrna Hansen was after the video screen because that was in May of 1980, because it was said Paul "knew" it was the aliens. I think Paul kept the video screen to himself and didn't show people. Going by my studies Paul established radio connection with the base and UFO in 1978, and it wasn't until January or February of 1980 until he built the video screen.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Peloquin
WHY would anyone take the reproductive organs of cattle??? What could they be needed for...???

Breeding experiments???

Artificial wombs...



"Paul mentioned in his Project Beta report that he was very well aware of the alien cattle mutilations and why they were doing them."

What did he knew, why they were doing them...?

Just for one moment... you all know those weird stories of the nightmare hall, a fine piece of weird fiction we all enjoyed to read, didn't we?


Hey Peloquin, great question I do not have an answer for that, but if aliens came to earth than they would probably be interested in the reproductive organs to produce "earth life" in their underground labs. I have heard testimony from an abductee that the obvious is true.

Paul doesn't tell us why the aliens were mutilating so many cattle in the US because he was focused on Project Beta of the actual base and ways to destroy it to get the aliens away from earth. Here is his qoute in project beta which does have the information towards cattle mutilations -



Cattle mutilations are the other side of the coin and will not be delved into here although they are a part of the overall. It appears the humanoids are fed by a formula made from human or cattle material or both and they are made from the same material by gene splicing and the use of female encounter victim's ovum. The resultant embryos are referred to by the alien as an 'organ'. Time of gestation to full use as a utility, ready to work appears to be about one year.




edit on 15-2-2011 by greyer because: external text



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 10:13 PM
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I am on a lead to trace the origins of the Thomas Castello story, does anyone know the first person to mention Thomas?



posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 
As far as I'm aware, the only physical source for the Castello claims came from a small group of people in the late 80s. John Lear, Tal Levesque and Val Valerian. It's hard to make sense of who actually started the story.

One thing is for certain, people who have limited credibility and a history of fabricating accounts and evidence should be viewed cautiously. If John Lear claims to have met someone, 'who knew someone' who worked in Dulce and can't speak for themselves, it's reasonable to disregard the claims.

Norio Hayakawa (also a member) lists the names connected to the Dulce myth in his blog:Enigmatic personalities behind the initial Dulce underground base rumors

Some of the old bbs messages are still buried on servers around the web and make interesting reading. The 80s 'dark side of ufology' really caught fire in those boards. Arguably, a lot of the abduction/milab narrative was shaped by these nightmare stories that remain unsourced and frequently hoaxed. A half-dozen people, for whatever motivations, threw smokebombs into the subject and we're still feeling the effects.

Here are some you might enjoy (if you haven't already)...

The infamous 'Lear Document.' 1987

www.textfiles.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Rick Doty Letter 1989

More Dulce by Jason Bishop/Tal Levesque

Krill Papers - Created by Lear 1988




edit on 16-2-2011 by Kandinsky because: bum link



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by greyer
I have never heard Doty or Moore to have seen the video screen, please let me know the source.


From Greg Bishop's Project Beta.


Originally posted by greyer
it worked because its hard for people to know they were shooting him up with chemicals...


They did? Source?



Originally posted by goatfish
He was not over the edge in the early days but a businessman, all the early reports credit him as being bery knowledgeable...I have heard many sources of him being highly respected and I'm doubting sources to claim otherwise.


No one is claiming otherwise. He was a very well respected businessman and by all accounts a genius. But mental problems do not develop overnight. By the time he met Doty and company, he had probably been suffering for a long time but not to such an extreme degree.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 



General James H. Doolittle went to Sweden in 1946 to inspect a flying saucer
that had crashed there in Spitzbergen.

Source


Good old John Lear, couldn't even get his basic facts right



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by WingedBull
Greg Bishop's book Project Beta details how the Air Force invented the stories of an underground base at Dulce as part of a disinformation campaign centered on Paul Bennewitz. Anyone making subsequent claims about a base at Dulce is either a liar, delusional or part of that campaign.


Pretty much sums it up. The whole story was a fake, likely designed to protect a real USAF project from a nutjob like Bennewitz.

Now people have taken the story and ran away with it, adding new parts and mixing in some New Age fake Native American nonsense



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by greyer
 
As far as I'm aware, the only physical source for the Castello claims came from a small group of people in the late 80s. John Lear, Tal Levesque and Val Valerian. It's hard to make sense of who actually started the story.

One thing is for certain, people who have limited credibility and a history of fabricating accounts and evidence should be viewed cautiously. If John Lear claims to have met someone, 'who knew someone' who worked in Dulce and can't speak for themselves, it's reasonable to disregard the claims.

Norio Hayakawa (also a member) lists the names connected to the Dulce myth in his blog:Enigmatic personalities behind the initial Dulce underground base rumors

Some of the old bbs messages are still buried on servers around the web and make interesting reading. The 80s 'dark side of ufology' really caught fire in those boards. Arguably, a lot of the abduction/milab narrative was shaped by these nightmare stories that remain unsourced and frequently hoaxed. A half-dozen people, for whatever motivations, threw smokebombs into the subject and we're still feeling the effects.

Here are some you might enjoy (if you haven't already)...

The infamous 'Lear Document.' 1987

www.textfiles.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Rick Doty Letter 1989

More Dulce by Jason Bishop/Tal Levesque

Krill Papers - Created by Lear 1988




edit on 16-2-2011 by Kandinsky because: bum link


Thanks for the links.

Norio brings up some crucial names and explanations to the personalities behind the names of the Thomas Castello story. I have been reading the old posts of John Lear on this site as a good source of fun and am still not finished. I have not seen any literature to be clear of years in Thomas Castello's story. Ann West, she may be the source of information, from my early studies I am believing she is the main source of information and Thomas Castello was made as a front name. Why would Bill Hamilton claim to have is social security code then I don't know. She knew Jason Bishop in Sante Fe New Mexico and visited with him, she was the original one who drew the Dulce papers which John Lear copied. TAL is obsessed with the less accounted for draco aliens, he was an inner earth researcher and most of his writings are from his own views, maybe he had an experience with the more accounted for praying mantis aliens and thought they were dragonlike. I am starting to believe TAL made up the whole Dulce Security Officer Speaks interview because it sounds like Ann West gave him some information and he mixed his beliefs into a narrative. We do not have any support against that.
edit on 17-2-2011 by greyer because: opinion

edit on 17-2-2011 by greyer because: remove opinion



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 
You've probably heard of UK miners taking canaries down mines to warn of toxic gases? Coincidentally, the practice ended in the same year that Lear was singing his loudest. I regard him as one of the canaries in the subject.

Although he said he copied the Dulce pictures, it's really just his word for it. Maybe he was being honest and the true source was someone else like the Ann West character? Maybe he wasn't?

Whatever the 'chain of evidence' for the flurry of Dulce claims and the rise of the 'dark side of ufology,' none of the sources have credibility. For that brief period, a huge amount of implausible information flooded the field. Whether it was coordinated by AFOSI mavericks or just an outcome of attention-seekers is hard to judge. The consistency in the narrative strands hints at some form of organisation.

For example, the video footage that allegedly shows the Dulce 'vats' is clearly a hoax and, from our current perspective, is very 80s disco in appearance. It was 'leaked' to the internet around 1987. As bad as it looks, there are some interesting props there. It isn't a student hoax or a few guys messing around. The tracking shot looks like it's on a dolly and indicates some level of professionalism. All of which costs money or relies on people with contacts in the movie industry. To me, it supports the possibility that all that 'dark side' BS was a deliberate and well-conceived hoax...




posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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Here is a report on Dulce that mentions a bit about Thomas www.exopolitics.org... not sure if it helps in finding the first leak but it has a few references in it.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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It would be easy to prove there was a base at Dulce. It has not been proven because there is not a permanently manned base there, plain and simple. I know that sucks to understand, and is really boring it you want to believe in the absurd, but reality is what is is.

And, seriously, those that are throwing their weight into this are throwing their weight into it with the like of John Lear? Seriously?


The Case for the Civilization on the Moon There is a civilization of human beings who live on the Moon. This is the biggest and best kept secret on earth. The nearside of the Moon, which is the side that faces earth, appears to be a desolate and unoccupied. The farside of the moon, which also has a breathable atmosphere also has lakes, rivers, forests, snow-capped mountains and life as we know it here on earth.


From the horses mouth. If you throw your weight behind that kind of ignorance....well, there is no hope for you.
edit on 18-2-2011 by MainLineThis because: spelling



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
For example, the video footage that allegedly shows the Dulce 'vats' is clearly a hoax and, from our current perspective, is very 80s disco in appearance. It was 'leaked' to the internet around 1987. As bad as it looks, there are some interesting props there. It isn't a student hoax or a few guys messing around. The tracking shot looks like it's on a dolly and indicates some level of professionalism. All of which costs money or relies on people with contacts in the movie industry.


You'd be right on all accounts, except that the only hoax here is that it was misappropriated to the internet as real footage of an alien base. If I recall correctly (and a search of ATS should reveal me correct) this footage was originally shot as part of a Japanese TV program on UFOs.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by greyer
 
You've probably heard of UK miners taking canaries down mines to warn of toxic gases? Coincidentally, the practice ended in the same year that Lear was singing his loudest. I regard him as one of the canaries in the subject.

Although he said he copied the Dulce pictures, it's really just his word for it. Maybe he was being honest and the true source was someone else like the Ann West character? Maybe he wasn't?

Whatever the 'chain of evidence' for the flurry of Dulce claims and the rise of the 'dark side of ufology,' none of the sources have credibility. For that brief period, a huge amount of implausible information flooded the field. Whether it was coordinated by AFOSI mavericks or just an outcome of attention-seekers is hard to judge. The consistency in the narrative strands hints at some form of organisation.

For example, the video footage that allegedly shows the Dulce 'vats' is clearly a hoax and, from our current perspective, is very 80s disco in appearance. It was 'leaked' to the internet around 1987. As bad as it looks, there are some interesting props there. It isn't a student hoax or a few guys messing around. The tracking shot looks like it's on a dolly and indicates some level of professionalism. All of which costs money or relies on people with contacts in the movie industry. To me, it supports the possibility that all that 'dark side' BS was a deliberate and well-conceived hoax...



Great observation about the "Ann West character." From my short investigations I am concluding Ann West and Thomas Castello are not real names but are both a front - this person did not want to get found. John has contradictions here even on this site. I definetly don't believe him but I will catch him in his lies.

I am going to get to the bottom of the Thomas Castello studies, but there is too much information coming in about the Bennewitz affair. Moore and Doty are the biggest liars I have ever seen. I have some words to tell Doty, currently he's a cop now maybe I can get him to give me ticket lol.

Yeah I know the video and the information from Christa Tilton who was dating UFO/Dulce researchers to get their information, our source Ann calls Christa out, me too I don't believe Christa lol.

Here is a Paul Bennewitz note I recently came across talking about Paul's experiences with Myrna Hansen.


I'd like to add something I think hasn't been talked about or mentioned concerning the girl abducted by the Dulce group. While her brief stay in their underground laboratory and witnessing those large vats of blue swirl with human parts floating about, she also told Paul Bennewitz and Maj. Edwards, upon her return, the alien in charge pointed out to her a vat that contained an intact body form of a different type of alien, probably belonging to another ET group, had said to her this one was a personal enemy of his. Paul was repulsed by the ghoulishness of these aliens and wanted to rid the world of them. Paul's experiences with these aliens haven't surfaced completely in the public domain. I haven't told everything I know about Paul sorry to say, But his is a remarkable story. I'm sorry that because of his eventual breakdown and of his recent passing, excluding those who personally knew him, most researchers are now more inclined to think he was crazy all along. Discrediting an impressive individual who's exposure of the violating groups kicked off awareness of the siege mind set of these off world intelligence.

Dex









edit on 18-2-2011 by greyer because: reference



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by WingedBull
 
Thanks for that. I found a quote that tends to support the point that it was pinched from a Japanese TV show.


Hi Daz Smith at crowdedskies...

Greetings, and congratulations for your site. It has a lot of interesting material.

However, I´d like to make a clearance about something you have on your website, and that's unfortunately false.

I'm a sort of "spokesman" for one of the prime investigators of the Dulce Base enigma. He saw the page about dulce and the supposed video of the base, and here's a fragment of what he told me...

"Some people were interviewed about DULCE for a Prime time UFO Special for NIPPON TV , in JAPAN.
They video taped DRAWINGS "Ann West" made of the 6 minute video tape of the Dulce Facility with no dialogue and the Still Photos. These were DRAWINGS, that she made. They were shown to the Japanese Investigators." (The drawings YOU have in the page, and without any doubt ARE authentic)

"The Japanese went to the expense of making MODELS, based on the Drawings, and produced a "grainy" video of the small Models and used to illustrate the Interview on the TV Special (over 10 years ago).
Later...Assholes, cut these sections out of the Japanese TV program, when the Program's Video was sold in Japanese Video Stores.
Then, someone said it was the REAL Dulce Video and tried to sell it to make themselves Money."

So guys, that video is NOT authentic, because the real video is missing and no one knows where it is. And everyone who once had a copy of it is dead already, or at least with a death-silence-sentence. ¿Please, would you correct that little mistake?

Thanks a lot.
Crowded Skies



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by greyer
I have never heard Doty or Moore to have seen the video screen, please let me know the source.


From Greg Bishop's Project Beta.


Hmm, I read the book and you're making me want to read it again as I don't remember that. I do remember being frustrated the whole time I read it because Greg appearred totally skeptical from the beginning, the type of guy who would listen to Doty.


Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by greyer
it worked because its hard for people to know they were shooting him up with chemicals...


They did? Source?



At lunch with Moore, Bennewitz, his hands shaking, his face as haggard as a skeleton’s, told his friend that aliens were coming through his walls at night and injecting him with hideous chemicals. The chemicals knocked him out; he was very worried about what the aliens had done to him when he was unconscious.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

This may have been MILAB operations abducting Paul because of the prick marks on his arm, alien abductions are usually burns and scoop marks. This was right at the end, human abductions would be the ones forcing someone into a mental hospital over exhaustion and paranoia.


Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by greyer
He was not over the edge in the early days but a businessman, all the early reports credit him as being bery knowledgeable...I have heard many sources of him being highly respected and I'm doubting sources to claim otherwise.


No one is claiming otherwise. He was a very well respected businessman and by all accounts a genius. But mental problems do not develop overnight. By the time he met Doty and company, he had probably been suffering for a long time but not to such an extreme degree.


I have not heard one source describing Paul to be any bit ill during 1973-1978. In 1979 he was frantic because he truly believed the planet had been invaded. In 1980 he was even more frantic with Myrna Hansen and video screen but he still had composer. So from 1981-1987 he was being harrassed, that is well enough time to develop those problems


edit on 19-2-2011 by greyer because: quote formats

edit on 19-2-2011 by greyer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Has anyone ever seen this book before?



Very wierd to me that Thomas E. Castello and Wendelle C. Stevens are the authors, wouldn't you have someone else in reference besides just those two together? Wendelle was boyfriend of Christa Tilton for a time, and nobody on ATS has ever said when the actual date of the Castello interview had taken place that I've heard, but the interview is our only sources from Thomas himself. Very interesting.

www.ufotv.com...



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 
The image from the cover of the book is from some years after the Castello character. Also, Wendelle Stevens was more into the 'peace and light' style of alien. For these reasons, the book cover is probably a red herring...fishy.


FX Masters created the critter in the late 90s...




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