"Is Satan Really Such a Bad Guy?"

Originally posted by lightangel777
reply to post by Shoomoo

 

you have to understand the bible and you have to understand god god works in mysterious ways and satan went against god because he wanted power satan is jealous and wants to be god the bible does give information on why satan went against god and satan is the one who causes souls to die threw sin so actually satan murders not god god is merciful and god is like a parent who has rules but punishes them death wouldn't exist if satan wouldn't of went against his god satan is why theres death so therefore he caused all those people to die because of sin and the bible tells you the wages of sin is death and satan causes sin so therefore he kills satan is the reason why god was so angry but god has already found a way to save us and he sent his son to die for our sins jesus death destroyed ours his rising resorted our life and in the new testament god saves all those souls who were already dead from the old

god was angry yes but were his children any parent would get mad if there child went against them god does test us and our faith but to say he actually kills us is not right god saves those who believe in him and god had a reason to wipe out the egyptians they were killing and made slaves out of gods people i just read those scriptures and more than half them god don't kill he punishes so i don't why people are saying god kills because god renews life god is life you people look at the bible and think they know what its saying i already went over this with my church so i know

so even though god was angry he found a way to save us and jesus does love us it is threw jesus we receive everlasting life so basically satan has already failed miserable to get souls jesus is the way the truth and the life god created life satan threw sin tries to destroy it you can't say gods the bad guy its his universe not satans satans a angel gods a god two different things and its true

so he is all loving and forgiving... yet tells people to have slaves and beat them, and also kills many people in a flood because he thinks they are evil, even if there were children and elderly, while satan did neither of those?

Not to mention how is it that only one person is able to recieve a resurrection upon death, and is able to sit by god, then after that kills billions and more to come after just because he is angry? Think! If it is god's will, then god Must be evil in the bible

reply to post by lightangel777


Thanks for your post, which I found most entertaining. Especially concerning some of the finer details, which you obviously are unfamiliar with (it's strange how often non-believers know the bible better than 'true' believers).

First: The mythological bible-narrative certainly has its weak points. Selfcontradictions, ignorance of cosmology, a 'god' which appears to suffer from a paranioa/megalomania syndrome (one day being ever-loving, the next day on a killing-spree) and not least an exceedingly elaborate circle-argumentation to knit the whole thing together.

But it's all honky-dory, because 'it's mysterious ways'. A little magic filling out the gaps of non-sense turns it into 'sense'. Do you really believe, that ATS is a meeting-place for the intellectually disabled, since you present such stuff. It's almost insulting.

Then: As has already been pointed out, the exact name and nature of 'god's adversary(-ies) isn't made precise in the bible. Neither is the chronology around him/it/her/them clear. To top it up, it's uncertain who the 'US' (in genesis referring to 'god' or 'gods') are. A well-educated guess would be, that there's actually a whole bunch of competing gangs, each with its own agenda and propaganda (that is, if the bible relates to reality in any way. As e.g. an expression of 'ancient astronauts' or similar hypotheses).

The presently so beloved christian fad of 'god' as a parent isn't forgotten either. That this is a cooked-up allegory, and only being an allegory and as such without any intrinsic truth, is ofcourse disregarded. The allegory 'proves' something (for a christian); it proves nothing for a non-christian. But let's see what happens, IF this allegory contains a grain of reality-connection.

A parent behaving the way 'god' does appears to be totally bonkers. An obsessive need for being worshipped, 'free will' as long as it's not used, setting traps for the 'children' and cursing all mankind for generations with an inherited existential debt. But in the inverse rationalizing of christians, this obviously insane entity is DEFINED as an exponent of ultimate omni-everything (ofcourse including ultimate sanity), whereas mankind, animals and the universe per se are dysfunctional.

Validation of this absurdity: That's the way things are, and dissenters will be burned when extremist christians are in power (Dear D-g, never let that happen again).

Finally the hijacked Jesus-movement is turned into a doctrine of cosmic-credit-card. All debts cancelled, sins forgiven and a somewhat safe ticket to Disneyland in the sky, if we only believe, worship, pray, repent and grovel.

Talk about snake-oil scams. We only need 'intelligent design' to be full circle.

reply to post by Shoomoo


Double facepalm, sigh, slight loss of will to live.

Satan or Lucifer is just the opposite to the "good" Gods human have made up.

If you create something that is "ALL GOOD" you must have the opposite. The counter.

It's called duality, and people get played by this type of polarization ALL THE TIME.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Shoomoo

 

Double facepalm, sigh, slight loss of will to live.

Satan or Lucifer is just the opposite to the "good" Gods human have made up.

If you create something that is "ALL GOOD" you must have the opposite. The counter.

It's called duality, and people get played by this type of polarization ALL THE TIME.

There is just one problem. The creation of good and bad just leads to the Problem of Evil that ponders great philosophers so much.

reply to post by Shoomoo


Indeed, and the idea of creator leads to an Infinite Regress

Another problem that theism or at least mono-theism leads to is the "Euthyphro dilemma"

Satan = Anti-God.

If you are go against a God of a specific religion, they would believe you are evil, and are going to the Anti-God afterife as opposed to the "God" afterlife. It's an attempt to polarize morality.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Shoomoo

 

Indeed, and the idea of creator leads to an Infinite Regress

Another problem that theism or at least mono-theism leads to is the "Euthyphro dilemma"

Satan = Anti-God.

If you are go against a God of a specific religion, they would believe you are evil, and are going to the Anti-God afterife as opposed to the "God" afterlife. It's an attempt to polarize morality.

edit on 14/2/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

You are right there. Its all a matter of perspective. That one religion sees it as evil, while another is good, therefore it is considered dividing the group by perspective of morality.

To play devils advocate; who is to say that this Satan character could not have been confused by people as being God in the writings of the Bible? Perhaps the epic death levels you write about are not of or from this God you speak of but from Satan. Wouldn't an evil deity above our understanding know exactly how to 'play' our primitive emotions? If such a being exists, you are discounting it's trickery.

Peace.

thats what the cathars believed. they felt that all of this world was actually hell, and the vatican was satans church. that's why the Vatican inquisitioned their asses!

reply to post by okamitengu


Also, remember the story of Abraham and Isaac.

Whey Abraham was to kill his child, "satan" pleaded that he not do so. Abraham chased him away with stones. The entity pled again with Abraham and got the same result. At which point, one of "god"'s angels comes to intervene in the death. (but only because of the presence of "satan or lucifer)

The god Jehovah is a bloodthirsty war god. Moses was Tut-MOSES, an EGYPTIAN, that brought a power from Karnak with him into the desert. His limo was none other than the Ark of Covenant.

www.armageddonconspiracy.co.uk

reply to post by SunTzu22


I would "GOD" was the more evil person in the case of Abraham and Issaac. God's was showing his power, that he can instruct otherwise good people to do and say despicable things.

I would be on the "Devil's" side if he disagreed with this immoral act.

Again, Create an "all good" God, anyone who rebels or disobeys that God is considered an "Anti-God" or "Devil" (litearlly the opposite)

An attempt to polarize human morality. The same goes for Heaven and Hell; provoking false hope and false fear.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


the time I realized the fear and reward thing with Christianity I realized how messed up the idea of it all was (No offense to people who disagree). It really boggles me how no one was able to see what god was doing and think it was pretty harsh.

reply to post by Shoomoo


I deteste organised religion with every fibre of my being. Perhaps it was originally created with the best intentions but it has turned into something evil, controlling, divisive and dogmatic.

I have no problem with a simple belief in a creator/God - But to claim to know God's "description" without evidence is just a guess game, to claim it as truth is just plain deception.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
I have no problem with a simple belief in a creator/God

Holy christ.
Did you turn into a deist?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I still lack faith, I just, at least, appreciate that Deism doesn't have any dogmatic controlling nonsense.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Shoomoo

 

I deteste organised religion with every fibre of my being. Perhaps it was originally created with the best intentions but it has turned into something evil, controlling, divisive and dogmatic.

I have no problem with a simple belief in a creator/God - But to claim to know God's "description" without evidence is just a guess game, to claim it as truth is just plain deception.

Exactly. I hate it when people think they know God than anyone else without evidence of such and say it is true. Like I don't think theres a problem with believing in God, but how the people who wrote the bible, or today's so called "Prophets" go on talking about who is God is just ridiculous.