As I understand it, he was not, but wanted to.
I think we must bear in mind this man was a Master Deviant who used everyone around him. He was accepted into a French Lodge in Paris in the early
1900s, but that Lodge wasn't recognized by the established orthodoxy. It's of my opinion he tried to use that connection in order to levy his way
into the UK scene, but as far as I have read, he was not accepted.
That he was, in fact, intent on perverting in some way is borne out in his own words:
When a man becomes a magician he looks about him for a magical weapon; and being probably endowed with that human frailty called laziness, he hopes
to find a weapon ready made. Thus we find the Christian Magus who imposed his power upon the world taking the existing worships and making a single
system combining all their merits ... Others again have attempted to use Freemasonry. There have been even exceptionally foolish magicians who have
tried to use a sword long since rusted.
So I'd say he wasn't.
Was Aleister Crowley a Freemason? (!?), page 1
privacy
reply posted on 12-2-2011 @ 11:08 PM by alyoshablue
reply to post by chocise
Very interesting to view the world this way, huh? I recently have been reading a few books on the Masons and have come to the conclusion that they are a bigger force than people give them the typical conspiratorial merit. By this I mean, they seem to have existed since time immemorial, predating even the Egyptians, but with the purpose for good.
I know now they have been inter-tangled with an evil aspect, however, several folk say that the Masons, as were other groups, were infiltrated much in the manner you described by Aleister Crowley's attempt. Nonetheless, you would think these societies have built-in mechanisms to thwart coups from the inside.
Sorry if I dragged this a bit to the side, OP, but thought I bring that up.
I recently watched a video made on the Beatles that inter-weaved Aleister Crowley's work, Satanism, and all that stuff. I don't recall seeing any Masonic imagery presented there, but more of the Luciferian elements. You would think that if he had been a Free Mason, that element would be there.
So, I would say that Aleister Crowley, aside from being Barbara Bush's father, is operating from one of those real old school black magick cults.
Very interesting to view the world this way, huh? I recently have been reading a few books on the Masons and have come to the conclusion that they are a bigger force than people give them the typical conspiratorial merit. By this I mean, they seem to have existed since time immemorial, predating even the Egyptians, but with the purpose for good.
I know now they have been inter-tangled with an evil aspect, however, several folk say that the Masons, as were other groups, were infiltrated much in the manner you described by Aleister Crowley's attempt. Nonetheless, you would think these societies have built-in mechanisms to thwart coups from the inside.
Sorry if I dragged this a bit to the side, OP, but thought I bring that up.
I recently watched a video made on the Beatles that inter-weaved Aleister Crowley's work, Satanism, and all that stuff. I don't recall seeing any Masonic imagery presented there, but more of the Luciferian elements. You would think that if he had been a Free Mason, that element would be there.
So, I would say that Aleister Crowley, aside from being Barbara Bush's father, is operating from one of those real old school black magick cults.
reply posted on 12-2-2011 @ 11:13 PM by WOWITSNOW
reply to post by Frater210
One who had a masonic direction without actually being apart. He might have had family or a close friend who was a high standing member of the sorts. These scenario's are lukewarm to this discussion though. In a black and white scenario he is not unfortunately. TO BE OUTCASTED MEANS DEATH,
One who had a masonic direction without actually being apart. He might have had family or a close friend who was a high standing member of the sorts. These scenario's are lukewarm to this discussion though. In a black and white scenario he is not unfortunately. TO BE OUTCASTED MEANS DEATH,
reply posted on 12-2-2011 @ 11:16 PM by Frater210
reply to post by chocise
I think that it is important to consider the entire panoply of Freemasonic and Occult Lodge activity in Europe and America during the time in question. It was very fashionable for men to be involved in these types of groups and from the turn of the century through the 1920's it was very fashionable to be a Templar. And it was even more fashionable to be a Templar with Secret Knowledge. Everybody was swapping spit. I believe that Crowley was fully aware of the tenuous nature of his conferred degrees. And I don't think he cared.......... This is from his own diary...
"From this time on I lived in a perfect shower of diplomas, from Bucharest to Salt Lake
City. 7 I possess more exalted titles than I have ever been able to count. I am supposed to
know more secret signs, tokens, passwords, grand-words, grips, and so on, than I could
actually learn in a dozen lives. An elephant would break down under the insignia I am
entitled to wear. The natural consequence of this was that, like Alice when she found the
kings and queens and the rest showering upon her as a pack of cards, I woke up." (Crowley,
Confessions, p. 629).
"I returned to England some time later, after 'passing the chair' in my Lodge [Anglo Saxon
Lodge No. 343], and, wishing to join the Royal Arch, called on its venerable secretary.
I presented my credentials. '0 Thou Grand Architect of the Universe!' the old man sobbed
out in rage, 'why dost Thou not wither this impudent imposter with Thy fire from heaven?
Sir, begone! You are not a Mason at all! As all the world knows, the people in Z- [Paris]
are atheists and live with other men’s wives'.
I thought this a little hard on my Reverend Father in God my proposer [Reverend J. L.
Bowley]; and I noted that, of course, every single English or American visitor to our Lodge
in Z- stood in peril of instant and irrevocable expulsion on detection. So I said nothing,
but walked to another room in Freemasons' Hall over his head, and took my seat as a Past
Master in one of the oldest and most eminent Lodges in London"! (Crowley, op. cit., p. 130-
131).
Here is the other half of the quote that you posted, Chocise...
"Wagner illustrates this point very clearly in Siegfried. The Great Sword Nothung has been
broken, and it is the only weapon that can destroy the gods. The dwarf Mime uselessly tries
to mend it. When Siegfried comes he makes no such error. He melts its fragments and forges
a new sword. In spite of the intense labour which this costs, it is the best plan to adopt".26
You may refer to Crowley as a deviant if you wish. Many have. But I would like to offer that his intention was to break these matters free from the hands of people who would keep them hidden and proprietary. I hope that a person reading the above quote will be able to appreciate that Crowley took a Mathematical, almost hacker-like approach to understanding these systems of occulted knowledge.
Crowley may be considered the father of Open Source Spiritual Development when it comes to ritual magic and graded systems of 'spiritual attainment' and the general implementation of the Theurgy contained in the Hermetic Mysteries which is what Crowley spent his life digging for. There are people who are going to delve in to these matters no matter what anyone does or no matter what they have to say about it. Crowley's mission was that it be available for all. As it should be.
And I would like to note Crowley's emphasis on the word labour above. He was undoubtedly the hardest working guy in or out of an accepted research lodge.
It is not 'old-school black magic'. It is Templarism and the Ancient Rites of M.M. when it comes to Crowley, his masonic connections in Britain, France and elsewhere and in the O.T.O. It is Templarized Freemasonry. And, God I hope that isn't true about Barbara.
I think that it is important to consider the entire panoply of Freemasonic and Occult Lodge activity in Europe and America during the time in question. It was very fashionable for men to be involved in these types of groups and from the turn of the century through the 1920's it was very fashionable to be a Templar. And it was even more fashionable to be a Templar with Secret Knowledge. Everybody was swapping spit. I believe that Crowley was fully aware of the tenuous nature of his conferred degrees. And I don't think he cared.......... This is from his own diary...
"From this time on I lived in a perfect shower of diplomas, from Bucharest to Salt Lake
City. 7 I possess more exalted titles than I have ever been able to count. I am supposed to
know more secret signs, tokens, passwords, grand-words, grips, and so on, than I could
actually learn in a dozen lives. An elephant would break down under the insignia I am
entitled to wear. The natural consequence of this was that, like Alice when she found the
kings and queens and the rest showering upon her as a pack of cards, I woke up." (Crowley,
Confessions, p. 629).
"I returned to England some time later, after 'passing the chair' in my Lodge [Anglo Saxon
Lodge No. 343], and, wishing to join the Royal Arch, called on its venerable secretary.
I presented my credentials. '0 Thou Grand Architect of the Universe!' the old man sobbed
out in rage, 'why dost Thou not wither this impudent imposter with Thy fire from heaven?
Sir, begone! You are not a Mason at all! As all the world knows, the people in Z- [Paris]
are atheists and live with other men’s wives'.
I thought this a little hard on my Reverend Father in God my proposer [Reverend J. L.
Bowley]; and I noted that, of course, every single English or American visitor to our Lodge
in Z- stood in peril of instant and irrevocable expulsion on detection. So I said nothing,
but walked to another room in Freemasons' Hall over his head, and took my seat as a Past
Master in one of the oldest and most eminent Lodges in London"! (Crowley, op. cit., p. 130-
131).
Here is the other half of the quote that you posted, Chocise...
"Wagner illustrates this point very clearly in Siegfried. The Great Sword Nothung has been
broken, and it is the only weapon that can destroy the gods. The dwarf Mime uselessly tries
to mend it. When Siegfried comes he makes no such error. He melts its fragments and forges
a new sword. In spite of the intense labour which this costs, it is the best plan to adopt".26
You may refer to Crowley as a deviant if you wish. Many have. But I would like to offer that his intention was to break these matters free from the hands of people who would keep them hidden and proprietary. I hope that a person reading the above quote will be able to appreciate that Crowley took a Mathematical, almost hacker-like approach to understanding these systems of occulted knowledge.
Crowley may be considered the father of Open Source Spiritual Development when it comes to ritual magic and graded systems of 'spiritual attainment' and the general implementation of the Theurgy contained in the Hermetic Mysteries which is what Crowley spent his life digging for. There are people who are going to delve in to these matters no matter what anyone does or no matter what they have to say about it. Crowley's mission was that it be available for all. As it should be.
And I would like to note Crowley's emphasis on the word labour above. He was undoubtedly the hardest working guy in or out of an accepted research lodge.
It is not 'old-school black magic'. It is Templarism and the Ancient Rites of M.M. when it comes to Crowley, his masonic connections in Britain, France and elsewhere and in the O.T.O. It is Templarized Freemasonry. And, God I hope that isn't true about Barbara.
edit on 12-2-2011 by Frater210 because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-2-2011 by Frater210 because: Conceptual
edit
edit on 12-2-2011 by Frater210 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-2-2011 by Frater210 because: conceptual
edit
reply posted on 12-2-2011 @ 11:36 PM by Frater210
reply to post by chocise
We are only trying to discover the depth of Crowley's involvement in Freemasonry. But I understand that you consider him a bad guy. This is the expected type of hyperbole when it comes to talking about the 'Great Beast'. A name which he gave himself I might add. Are you beginning to see a theme of self reflection here when it comes to Crowley? A trait we would all do well to have.
We are only trying to discover the depth of Crowley's involvement in Freemasonry. But I understand that you consider him a bad guy. This is the expected type of hyperbole when it comes to talking about the 'Great Beast'. A name which he gave himself I might add. Are you beginning to see a theme of self reflection here when it comes to Crowley? A trait we would all do well to have.
reply posted on 12-2-2011 @ 11:44 PM by chocise
Originally posted by Frater210Yes I do, don't you? As for his depth of involvement, as said, I believe from what I've read he was a fringe participant who was not admitted to the regular sect. That he wanted to be adourned with yet more degrees and 'sacred knowledge' is hardly surprising. He was full of himself and totally obsessive about it.
reply to post by chocise
We are only trying to discover the depth of Crowley's involvement in Freemasonry. But I understand that you consider him a bad guy.
This is the expected type of hyperbole when it comes to talking about the 'Great Beast'. A name which he gave himself I might add. Are you beginning to see a theme of self reflection here when it comes to Crowley? A trait we would all do well to have.I see. Take it as you wish.
reply posted on 12-2-2011 @ 11:47 PM by Frater210
reply to post by chocise
Very well. Next.......
Very well. Next.......
edit on 12-2-2011 by Frater210 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 13-2-2011 @ 12:00 AM by alyoshablue
reply to post by Frater210
A lot of stuff there to consider, Frater210. I definitely think he is an interesting person and never really looked into him, as I perhaps too quickly considered him just a "deviant." However, that was prior to where I stand today and as many people who start to pay attention, you learn things aren't what they appear to be.
As far as saying he contributed to Free Masonary, I can't see that. Only from what I had stated earlier ... they have been an ancient sect and the knowledge that they sought was predefined and something to attain to. However, perhaps you aren't addressing the content of the Masons, but the operations and actions of the Masons and their development through the ages - Aleister Crowley perhaps having a hand in shaping that along with the other groups?
A lot of stuff there to consider, Frater210. I definitely think he is an interesting person and never really looked into him, as I perhaps too quickly considered him just a "deviant." However, that was prior to where I stand today and as many people who start to pay attention, you learn things aren't what they appear to be.
As far as saying he contributed to Free Masonary, I can't see that. Only from what I had stated earlier ... they have been an ancient sect and the knowledge that they sought was predefined and something to attain to. However, perhaps you aren't addressing the content of the Masons, but the operations and actions of the Masons and their development through the ages - Aleister Crowley perhaps having a hand in shaping that along with the other groups?
edit on 13-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: typos
reply posted on 13-2-2011 @ 12:10 AM by chocise
Originally posted by alyoshablue
reply to post by Frater210
I definitely think he is an interesting person and never really looked into him, as I perhaps too quickly considered him just a "deviant." However, that was prior to where I stand today and as many people who start to pay attention, you learn things aren't what they appear to be.
Quite.
I too found him interesting but bothered to look more closely and found him to be a totally abhorrent, evil individual.
reply posted on 13-2-2011 @ 12:40 AM by Frater210
reply to post by alyoshablue
Hiya, Alyoshablue.
Well of course I disagree. What do you suppose would have happened to the Golden Dawn material specifically and modern lodge based occult practice in general if it had not been for Aleister Crowley and then Israel Regardie? I am not trying to be snotty. I am really interested in what you think. At the very least Crowley's dedication and innovation have led to the preservation of The Ancient Rite of M.M.. I understand that this is a controversial rite but I am sure that there are many Mason's who are appreciative of Crowley's work when they go to research that sort of thing. I think that Crowley's role here is predetermined by bad press concerning which he did not do much towards refuting. And as far as the 'Melange' I mentioned above: yes, all of those groups seeking one another out in search of secrets along with all the in fighting and cooperation contributed to Freemasonry as a whole. There is a lot to Freemasonry.
All:
I would also like to do a shout out for Kerry Gold butter. You have probably seen it at the market. I just made an incredible batch of English toffee with some. Let me know if you want the recipe.
J.
P.S. Love the avatar.
Hiya, Alyoshablue.
As far as saying he contributed to Free Masonary, I can't see that.
Well of course I disagree. What do you suppose would have happened to the Golden Dawn material specifically and modern lodge based occult practice in general if it had not been for Aleister Crowley and then Israel Regardie? I am not trying to be snotty. I am really interested in what you think. At the very least Crowley's dedication and innovation have led to the preservation of The Ancient Rite of M.M.. I understand that this is a controversial rite but I am sure that there are many Mason's who are appreciative of Crowley's work when they go to research that sort of thing. I think that Crowley's role here is predetermined by bad press concerning which he did not do much towards refuting. And as far as the 'Melange' I mentioned above: yes, all of those groups seeking one another out in search of secrets along with all the in fighting and cooperation contributed to Freemasonry as a whole. There is a lot to Freemasonry.
edit on 13-2-2011 by Frater210 because: Punct.
All:
I would also like to do a shout out for Kerry Gold butter. You have probably seen it at the market. I just made an incredible batch of English toffee with some. Let me know if you want the recipe.
J.
P.S. Love the avatar.
edit on 13-2-2011 by Frater210 because: Toffee!
edit on 13-2-2011 by Frater210 because: All!
reply posted on 13-2-2011 @ 07:14 AM by Extant Taxon
reply to post by Frater210
Crowley was a member of various "irregular" lodges, those not recognised by the prevailing orthodoxy as in amity by UGLE. I guess you could call him a Masonic heretic in a sense, he believed differently to the mainstream Brotherhood and actively cultivated membership in black lodges.
It's all politics in the end, but I'm not sure he contributed anything to Freemasonry as a whole. In terms of occult philosophy his magickal systems have bound to have seeped into the fringe memestream of the more mystically minded Freemasons around today, but these generally have nothing to do with the prevailing "wisdom" of Freemasonic organizations that are ruled regular and in amity with UGLE, which includes the Scottish Rite in the U.S.
My experience with most Freemasons of the regular persuasion is that they eschew the type of occult thoughtforms Crowley engaged in. Though there are exceptions. Mainstream Freemasonry is almost entirely concerned with material matters, internal politics, and the like; and when spirituality or mysticism does enter the equation it tends toward more conventional religious expression.
I like the Parsons avatar, by the way. I'm doing some reading on the guy now. Fascinating character.
Crowley was a member of various "irregular" lodges, those not recognised by the prevailing orthodoxy as in amity by UGLE. I guess you could call him a Masonic heretic in a sense, he believed differently to the mainstream Brotherhood and actively cultivated membership in black lodges.
It's all politics in the end, but I'm not sure he contributed anything to Freemasonry as a whole. In terms of occult philosophy his magickal systems have bound to have seeped into the fringe memestream of the more mystically minded Freemasons around today, but these generally have nothing to do with the prevailing "wisdom" of Freemasonic organizations that are ruled regular and in amity with UGLE, which includes the Scottish Rite in the U.S.
My experience with most Freemasons of the regular persuasion is that they eschew the type of occult thoughtforms Crowley engaged in. Though there are exceptions. Mainstream Freemasonry is almost entirely concerned with material matters, internal politics, and the like; and when spirituality or mysticism does enter the equation it tends toward more conventional religious expression.
I like the Parsons avatar, by the way. I'm doing some reading on the guy now. Fascinating character.
edit on 13/2/11 by Extant Taxon
because: Added some further text about the occult rocket man.
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