Must Watch!! Ron Paul 20/20 Banned ABC News Interview With John Stossel!!, page 11

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Tallone

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Originally posted by TalloneI can do better than edited videos. I can give you some history available to be checked via your Internet connection at a site of your own choice. There are so many sources of verification.

So many credible sources that you cant provide a single one?

Your entire post was comprised of your opinions with no supporting documentation at all. None whatsoever…

Ron Paul is an “isolationist” because he does not believe in endless wars and does not believe in the New World Order agenda of a One World Government under the UN? This is the first time I’ve seen someone state that wanting to end a policy of continuous warfare and valuing sovereignty is “isolationist”…

Do you believe in individual liberties at all?

www.google.com.au... nterests%22.&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=DnlhTfG0M8n4cdqEyZQK

I have given you ample evidence. Historical fact. It is an argument. Not an opinion. One is supported by evidence the other does not have to be.
Your position is entirely an opinion!

The quotes I provide are not mine. They are Ron Paul's
Ron Paul's speeches before congress are a matter of public record.
You have Internet. Use it.

The New Republic
See James Kirchick article on Ron Paul 2008.
If you don't have access go to these URLs for starters.

www.cato-at-liberty.org...

The Kirchick investigation into the Ron Paul letters is available on The New Republic site.
www.tnr.com...

Ron Paul denies writing the Newsletters himself but as Kirchick himself has noted Ron Paul pulls in almost a million dollars in checks from supporters sent his Newsletters, filled with racist and homophobic vitriol, and he didn't know who wrote them or even check the content? BTW the Newsletters list among the 11 writers four members of Paul's own family and Lew Rockwell, Ron Paul's own guru.
This is not my opinion either.

reason.com...

Do research of your own. Don't settle for videos as you request. Videos are simply edited and directed content unless you are watching live content from a source you can verify.

You last question is ridiculous. Who cares if the messenger calls themselves a libertarian or not? As the Cato Institute stance on Ron Paul shows, they obviously don't.

reply to post by Tallone

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You provided me your opinion based on claims without any sources.

Now, lets take a look at your "sources".

Your first link produced search results to a definition? None of which (as far as I could tell) mentioned Ron Paul.

Your second link produced an article by David Boaz in which he cites an article by James Kirchick in which he says that he cannot prove that Ron Paul wrote any of the claims which you eluded to earlier (at-least he's being honest):

Of course, with few bylines, it is difficult to know whether any particular article was written by Paul himself. Some of the earlier newsletters are signed by him, though the vast majority of the editions I saw contain no bylines at all. Complicating matters, many of the unbylined newsletters were written in the first person, implying that Paul was the author.

Your third link has references to a Ron Paul newsletter which the previous author admits were not written by Ron Paul. Furthermore, NONE of the links on that page work...

And finally, your last link has an article titled "Who Wrote Ron Paul's Newsletters" which again states that Ron Paul did not write the newsletter:

Rockwell has denied responsibility for the newsletters' contents to The New Republic's Jamie Kirchick. But a source close to the Paul presidential campaign told reason that Rockwell authored much of the content of the Political Report and Survival Report. Rockwell was publicly named as Paul's ghostwriter as far back as a 1988 issue of the now-defunct movement monthly American Libertarian.

So all of your opinions are based on a newsletter which Ron Paul did not write and which cannot be sourced...

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Tallone

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You provided me your opinion based on claims without any sources.

Now, lets take a look at your "sources".

My 'opinion' is an argument based on evidence.

Evidence.

I have given you historical quotes by Ron Paul to Congress. As I said public record. Do an Internet search. You want someone to hold your hand?

The James Kirchick article.
www.tnr.com...

Evidence.
www.cato-at-liberty.org...

Ron Paul replied he didn't write them.
But Ron Paul pulls in over $900,000.00 from those Newsletter recipients. Yes the letters are filled with racist and homophobic vitriol, and he says didn't know who wrote them or even check the content?

I mean here was a presidential candidate who states for over 9 years he has had no idea what was in his own newsletters and who wrote them. He accepted over $900.000.00 from people receiving the newsletters. Presidents have to know a little bit about their support team. Don't you think so? ''

However, the Newsletters list among the 11 writers four members of Paul's own family and Lew Rockwell who is Ron Paul's own guru.

Anyway the result of the verification from one particular source…

The Cato Institute reviewed the evidence and announced they would henceforth distance themselves from Ron Paul.

I will post some excerpts, again with the URL.


Not enough evidence for you yet?
Still want to watch the 'sympathy and by the way vote for Ron Paul' video campaign?

Before you fall for the line Ron Paul is a libertarian consider what the godfather institution of libertarianism has to say about Ron Paul.

Excerpts from the Cato Institute after an investigation of the very ugly Ron Paul newsletters.

"For the past few months most libertarians have been pleased to see Ron Paul achieving unexpected success with his presidential campaign’s message of ending the Iraq war, abolishing the federal income tax, establishing sound money, and restoring the Constitution…"

"And so it’s understandable that over the past few months a lot of people have been asking why writers at the Cato Institute seemed to display a lack of interest in or enthusiasm for the Paul campaign. Well, now you know [1]. We had never seen the newsletters that have recently come to light, and I for one was surprised at just how vile they turned out to be. But we knew the company Ron Paul had been keeping, and we feared that they would have tied him to some reprehensible ideas far from the principles we hold."


"Paul says he didn’t write the letters, that he denounces the words that appeared in them, that he was unaware for decades of what 100,000 people were receiving every month from him. That’s an odd claim on which to run for president: I didn’t know what my closest associates were doing over my signature, so give me responsibility for the federal government."

"But of course Ron Paul isn’t running for president. He’s not going to be president, he’s not going to be the Republican nominee for president, and he never hoped to be... now he and his associates have slimed the noble cause of liberty and limited government."

"Mutterings about the past mistakes of the New Republic or the ideological agenda of author James Kirchick are beside the point… Even those who vociferously defend Ron Paul and viciously denounce Kirchick, perhaps even those who wrote the words originally, are apparently unwilling to quote and defend the actual words that appeared over Ron Paul’s signature."

Those words are not libertarian words...
Libertarians should make it clear that the people who wrote those things are not our comrades, not part of our movement, not part of the tradition of John Locke, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, William Lloyd Garrison, Frederick Douglass, Ludwig von Mises, F. A. Hayek, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, and Robert Nozick. Shame on them."
Article printed from Cato @ Liberty: www.cato-at-liberty.org...
www.cato-at-liberty.org...

I think that is about enough evidence for one day. And yes do some research and find out about the news letters that helped earn Ron Paul & associates over $900,000.000 annually from his subscribing supporters. All content over Paul's own signature and this has gone on for years. And the man says he never knew the content nor who wrote them.

reply to post by Tallone

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Originally posted by Tallone
I have given you historical quotes by Ron Paul to Congress. As I said public record. Do an Internet search. You want someone to hold your hand?

I think that is about enough evidence for one day.

All I asked was for you to back up your claims, which you are either unwilling or unable to do. You gave me opinions based on dead links and an internet definition...thats your idea of "evidence"?

The two "sources" that you do provide actually contradict your assertions.

The first is your article by James Kirchick in which he states:

Of course, with few bylines, it is difficult to know whether any particular article was written by Paul himself. Some of the earlier newsletters are signed by him, though the vast majority of the editions I saw contain no bylines at all. Complicating matters, many of the unbylined newsletters were written in the first person, implying that Paul was the author.

Your other source is an article by David Boaz. Meanwile David Boaz's source is the same James Kirchick article...

Then you proceeded to paste the entire article with the exception of the following:

He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom.

I cant help but to wonder why you would intentionally omit this statement...

I think you might be trolling.

www.cato-at-liberty.org...

You obfuscate. Comment on the Cato Institute statement.

"Mutterings about the past mistakes of the New Republic or the ideological agenda of author James Kirchick are beside the point...Even those who vociferously defend Ron Paul and viciously denounce Kirchick, perhaps even those who wrote the words originally, are apparently unwilling to quote and defend the actual words that appeared over Ron Paul’s signature… Those words are not libertarian words."

Just repeating the evidence.

reply to post by Tallone

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Originally posted by Tallone
I think you might be trolling.

Please explain why you pasted an entire article intentionally omitting the following:

He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom.

www.cato-at-liberty.org...

I suppose you can continue the name calling but that doesn't provide an explanation, the answer to which is all too obvious.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Tallone

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Originally posted by Tallone
I think you might be trolling.

Please explain why you pasted an entire article intentionally omitting the following:

He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom.

www.cato-at-liberty.org...

You mean the sentence leading into the punch line, the final sentence which you choose to omit?

He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom. Succeeding beyond his wildest dreams, he became the most visible so-called “libertarian” in America. And now he and his associates have slimed the noble cause of liberty and limited government.

www.cato-at-liberty.org...

The Cato Institute sure don't like to be associated with Ron Paul. Now why would the bastion of Liberalism say such very bad things about the man you say want me to accept as a Liberal?

reply to post by Tallone

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Originally posted by TalloneYou mean the sentence leading into the punch line, the final sentence which you choose to omit?

No, I mean the article which you pasted in its entirety with the exception of the following:

He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom. Succeeding beyond his wildest dreams, he became the most visible so-called “libertarian” in America.

I'll spell it out for you. Here is your paste:

Originally posted by Tallone
"But of course Ron Paul isn’t running for president. He’s not going to be president, he’s not going to be the Republican nominee for president, and he never hoped to be... now he and his associates have slimed the noble cause of liberty and limited government."

and here is the original article

But of course Ron Paul isn’t running for president. He’s not going to be president, he’s not going to be the Republican nominee for president, and he never hoped to be. He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom. Succeeding beyond his wildest dreams, he became the most visible so-called “libertarian” in America. And now he and his associates have slimed the noble cause of liberty and limited government.

Originally posted by Tallone
The Cato Institute sure don't like to be associated with Ron Paul. Now why would the bastion of Liberalism say such very bad things about the man you say want me to accept as a Liberal?

Ron Paul would not be classified as a Liberal in today's political terms. He is more of a Conservative and a Libertarian.

The Cato Institute doenst like to be associated with Ron Paul? That’s odd. Especially considering the numerous Cato Institute articles supporting his ideas (a quick search)…

Ron Paul Challenges GOP's Foreign Policy Agenda

If the Republican Party wants to return to power — and especially if it genuinely wants to keep America "safe, free, and prosperous" — it will engage rather than dismiss Rep. Paul's critique of U.S. foreign policy.

Is Ron Paul Good for Monetary Policy?

Given that Paul is about the only one in Congress willing to fight this fight, he merits support, even if that support is occasionally critical.

Defending Ron Paul’s Tax Plan

Ron Paul may not be a realistic candidate in today's America, but that is an unfortunate reflection on voters (and the forces that have shaped voter attitudes), not the candidate's platform.

Ron Paul: He Won't Win the Presidency, But...

No, Rep. Paul is not likely to be our next president. But he is delivering a message that the other candidates would do well to heed. Is anyone listening?

I've really had it with the "go find your own sources" crowd. They make assertions without any supporting evidence whatsoever, editing and deleting information to try and advance their own agenda.

You have yet to make one accurate statement and I am still waiting to see any credible evidence on how Ron Paul is an “isolationist”... I wont hold my breath.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Tallone

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Originally posted by TalloneYou mean the sentence leading into the punch line, the final sentence which you choose to omit?

No, I mean the article which you pasted in its entirety with the exception of the following:

He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom. Succeeding beyond his wildest dreams, he became the most visible so-called “libertarian” in America.

I'll spell it out for you. Here is your paste:

Originally posted by Tallone
"But of course Ron Paul isn’t running for president. He’s not going to be president, he’s not going to be the Republican nominee for president, and he never hoped to be... now he and his associates have slimed the noble cause of liberty and limited government."

and here is the original article

But of course Ron Paul isn’t running for president. He’s not going to be president, he’s not going to be the Republican nominee for president, and he never hoped to be. He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom. Succeeding beyond his wildest dreams, he became the most visible so-called “libertarian” in America. And now he and his associates have slimed the noble cause of liberty and limited government.

Originally posted by Tallone
The Cato Institute sure don't like to be associated with Ron Paul. Now why would the bastion of Liberalism say such very bad things about the man you say want me to accept as a Liberal?

Ron Paul would not be classified as a Liberal in today's political terms. He is more of a Conservative and a Libertarian.

The Cato Institute doenst like to be associated with Ron Paul? That’s odd. Especially considering the numerous Cato Institute articles supporting his ideas (a quick search)…

Ahh now "he is more of a conservative…" is he? Well it doesn't really matter what political pose he adopts. The man is clearly a stooge for the elite number one. Number 2 he is linked to ultra nationalist, racist, and homo-phobic entities. He is also not adverse to making considerable sums of money from the activities of such entities to support his stooge campaign (to disinform, obfuscate, confuse).

You seem to be a little cross. You seem to forget it is you who make claims and you who fail to submit prima facie evidence. It is you who defend your case for Ron Paul here.

I therefore submit the entire CATO INSTITUTE ARTICLE / NOTICE as reliable evidence the institution of Liberalism has publicly dissed senator Ron Paul as having anything to do with Liberalism- for what it (Liberalism with a capital L) is worth.

For the record then. Here is the article in its entirety. I submit it as evidence for the jury to consider.

Ron Paul’s Ugly Newsletters
Posted By David Boaz On January 11, 2008 @ 11:51 am In Government and Politics,Political Philosophy | Comments Disabled

For the past few months most libertarians have been pleased to see Ron Paul achieving unexpected success with his presidential campaign’s message of ending the Iraq war, abolishing the federal income tax, establishing sound money, and restoring the Constitution. Sure, some of us didn’t like his talk about closing the borders and his conspiratorial view of a North-South highway. But the main themes of his campaign, the ones that generated the multi-million-dollar online fundraising spectaculars and the youthful “Ron Paul Revolution,” were classic libertarian issues. It was particularly gratifying to see a presidential candidate tie the antiwar position to a belief in a strictly limited federal government.

And so it’s understandable that over the past few months a lot of people have been asking why writers at the Cato Institute seemed to display a lack of interest in or enthusiasm for the Paul campaign. Well, now you know [1]. We had never seen the newsletters that have recently come to light, and I for one was surprised at just how vile they turned out to be. But we knew the company Ron Paul had been keeping, and we feared that they would have tied him to some reprehensible ideas far from the principles we hold.

Ron Paul says he didn’t write these newsletters, and I take him at his word. They don’t sound like him. In my infrequent personal encounters and in his public appearances, I’ve never heard him say anything racist or homophobic (halting and uncomfortable on gay issues, like a lot of 72-year-old conservatives, but not hateful). But he selected the people who did write those things, and he put his name on the otherwise unsigned newsletters, and he raised campaign funds from the mailing list that those newsletters created. And he would have us believe that things that “do not represent what I believe or have ever believed” appeared in his newsletter for years and years without his knowledge. Assuming Ron Paul in fact did not write those letters, people close to him did. His associates conceived, wrote, edited, and mailed those words. His closest associates over many years know who created those publications. If they truly admire Ron Paul, if they think he is being unfairly tarnished with words he did not write, they should come forward, take responsibility for their words, and explain how they kept Ron Paul in the dark for years about the words that appeared every month in newsletters with “Ron Paul” in the title.

Paul says he didn’t write the letters, that he denounces the words that appeared in them, that he was unaware for decades of what 100,000 people were receiving every month from him. That’s an odd claim on which to run for president: I didn’t know what my closest associates were doing over my signature, so give me responsibility for the federal government.

But of course Ron Paul isn’t running for president. He’s not going to be president, he’s not going to be the Republican nominee for president, and he never hoped to be. He got into the race to advance ideas—the ideas of peace, constitutional government, and freedom. Succeeding beyond his wildest dreams, he became the most visible so-called “libertarian” in America. And now he and his associates have slimed the noble cause of liberty and limited government.

Mutterings about the past mistakes of the New Republic or the ideological agenda of author James Kirchick are beside the point. Maybe Bob Woodward didn’t like Quakers; the corruption he uncovered in the Nixon administration was still a fact, and that’s all that mattered. Ron Paul’s most visible defenders have denounced Kirchick as a “pimply-faced youth”—so much for their previous enthusiasm about all the young people sleeping on floors for the Paul campaign—and a neoconservative. But they have not denied the facts he reported. Those words appeared in newsletters under his name. And, notably, they have not dared to defend or even quote the actual words that Kirchick reported. Even those who vociferously defend Ron Paul and viciously denounce Kirchick, perhaps even those who wrote the words originally, are apparently unwilling to quote and defend the actual words that appeared over Ron Paul’s signature.

Those words are not libertarian words. Maybe they reflect “paleoconservative” ideas, though they’re not the language of Burke or even Kirk. But libertarianism is a philosophy of individualism, tolerance, and liberty. As Ayn Rand wrote, “Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism.” Making sweeping, bigoted claims about all blacks, all homosexuals, or any other group is indeed a crudely primitive collectivism.

Libertarians should make it clear that the people who wrote those things are not our comrades, not part of our movement, not part of the tradition of John Locke, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, William Lloyd Garrison, Frederick Douglass, Ludwig von Mises, F. A. Hayek, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, and Robert Nozick. Shame on them.

Article printed from Cato @ Liberty: www.cato-at-liberty.org...

URL to article: www.cato-at-liberty.org...

URLs in this post:

[1] now you know: tnr.com...

The prosecutions case rests. '

reply to post by Tallone

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Originally posted by Tallone
The man is clearly a stooge for the elite number one.

How so? Please provide a source or some evidence for this new accusation (can't wait to see this one).

Originally posted by Tallone
Well it doesn't really matter what political pose he adopts.

It doesn't? Then why are you so concerned with trying to disassociate him from a Libertarian organization?

Originally posted by Tallone
Number 2 he is linked to ultra nationalist, racist, and homo-phobic entities.

Name one entity and please provide evidence or a reliable source (patiently waiting).

Originally posted by Tallone
You seem to forget it is you who make claims and you who fail to submit prima facie evidence.

Which claim and or claims did I make? Please let me know. Unlike some, I will be happy to substantiate everything I say.

Originally posted by Tallone
reliable evidence the institution of Liberalism has publicly dissed senator Ron Paul

The Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C.
en.wikipedia.org...

I would ask if you know the difference between a Libertarian and a Liberal, but its clearly obvious that you do not yet you continue to comment on the two...

You provide one article by David Boaz (in which you deleted the praise) whose source is another article by James Kirchick in which Kirchick himself says that there is no way to know if Ron Paul wrote any of these alleged articles:

Of course, with few bylines, it is difficult to know whether any particular article was written by Paul himself. Some of the earlier newsletters are signed by him, though the vast majority of the editions I saw contain no bylines at all. Complicating matters, many of the unbylined newsletters were written in the first person, implying that Paul was the author.

Furthermore, the Cato Institute seems to repeatedly praise Ron Paul, contrary to your other claims. You seem to have conveniently ignored this so I'll include it again:

Ron Paul Challenges GOP's Foreign Policy Agenda

If the Republican Party wants to return to power — and especially if it genuinely wants to keep America "safe, free, and prosperous" — it will engage rather than dismiss Rep. Paul's critique of U.S. foreign policy.

Is Ron Paul Good for Monetary Policy?

Given that Paul is about the only one in Congress willing to fight this fight, he merits support, even if that support is occasionally critical.

Defending Ron Paul’s Tax Plan

Ron Paul may not be a realistic candidate in today's America, but that is an unfortunate reflection on voters (and the forces that have shaped voter attitudes), not the candidate's platform.

Ron Paul: He Won't Win the Presidency, But...

No, Rep. Paul is not likely to be our next president. But he is delivering a message that the other candidates would do well to heed. Is anyone listening?

Originally posted by Tallone
The prosecutions case rests. '

Thats some case. False accusations, lies and opinions based on more opinions.

For a second I thought that I didnt know or understand Ron Paul, yet time after time I find that his critics lack any substance.

reply to post by MissSmartypants

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What about alcoholism, methadone clinics, cigarettes, or any other mind altering drug?

reply to post by Silvertrowel

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Originally posted by Silvertrowel
I am a frequent visitor here at ATS but I seldom post.
However, after reading so much about Ron Paul, I couldn't stay quiet any longer.

Ron Paul is not only the last hope fpr the USA, he is also the last hope for politics and the markets worldwide.
Unfortunately, the US has a lot of influence in the world, most of it bad.
With Ron Paul in the White House, the American political system would be the beacon of light in the world of politics that it was always meant to be .... Unless he is a liar offcourse.

If he is a liar and just another egotistical politician with self interest as his agenda, then you have lost nothing by voting for him because their is simply no other voting alternative anyway.

I'm in the Uk and I have refused to play the game. I have not voted in any election for many years because we have never had a politician or political party worthy of my signature. However, If Ron Paul were a Brit.... I'd be marching the streets and screaming his name in the hope that he is the genuine, loving and caring Human Being he portrays himself as....... We can only hope!

Brother, Ron Paul has been consistent in his view as reflected in his voting record for 30 years. There is no doubt that Ron Paul is 100% sincere. No other main stream politician would dare challenge these corrupt institutions from the "Federal Reserve" to the Military Industrial Complex.

And you're right, US policy affects the World. Ron Paul is the only hope for America AND the World.

Originally posted by Analyze76

Originally posted by MissSmartypants

Originally posted by Analyze76
reply to post by ararisq

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I grew up in the projects. I have built a suitable self empire of condos and houses with borrowed money that has been paid back in full. Ron Paul wants you to have "Gold".

That was done............... it failed. Wall Street gathered it all and charged you gold that you did not have because again.............(Wall Street had it all).

Since you are so smart I hope you will agree the dollar will NEVER crash because it can be valued 0, .100, .010 etc. You will be paid $100.00 hr and milk would be $40.00 a gallon in those instances.

Anyway while you go buy gold, an Alex Jones tape, or whatever, I think I'll go buy another condo so I can charge you 2 oz a month rent if your hopes come to fruition.

Well, I'm not quite sure what your point is in relation to the topic of this thread....but there was a time in America when we were on the gold standard, meaning you could take a dollar bill to the bank at any time and trade it in for a dollar's worth of real gold. The price of gold stayed the same so a dollar bill was always worth the same. The price of consumer goods did not fluctuate to any great degree and people could plan intelligently for their futures because they knew how much money it would take to live in their future...because it was basically going to stay the same. That was a time when the saying "Sound as a dollar" had a clear definable meaning to it that people saw reflected in their everyday lives.

I am new and was trying to respond to someone who plays know it all.

My point is if you have a total gold standard you cant "stretch" a dollar for all people to have an opportunity. I wont give away HOW I achieved my personal success, but read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. The fundamentals are the same.

If you did not save when the gettin was good then you have to do that BEFORE you would employ tactics in that book.

If we go to a gold standard China will eat us for lunch.

There IS massive corruption and fiscal mismangement. That must be fixed, but to believe that some fat punk from Texas (who would have never made it two blocks where I grew up) who tells you to hate your own government and have an attitude everytime you see someone in uniform is not the answer either.

He is getting alot of young kids to hate the government. (WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT) No self respecting Presidential Candidate would go anywhere near that clown and Ron Paul is on his show once a month.

comments....

It's all well and good to "stretch" the dollar as you say, but what about people who save money? Due to inflation, any savings you have ends up reduced in value over the years. What good is it to have $5000.00 in the bank if, in 20 years, it'll have an adjusted value of $2500.00 (due to inflation)?

reply to post by MissSmartypants

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I am not even bothering to vote unless he is running. I have a feeling the race is already decided but will waste my time if he is on the ballot. Maybe if we cause a stink, they will listen!

firstread.msnbc.msn.com...

Look at the comments of the people who read MSM, seems like they are starting to like Ron Paul more and more and this is terrifying the MSM. He won the straw poll just recently.

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