Abolish the hoax forum or risk losing credibility forever, ATS

I'm a big fan of the HOAX forum. When something's been shown to be a hoax, it should be labeled as such. The recent Bernie Schnitzel saga comes to mind. If someone has info that proves it's not a hoax, post it, bring it to the attention of a couple mods, and if it holds water, it'll probably be moved out of the HOAX bin. I've seen it happen.

That being said, I think there should also be a forum titled "Absolute Idiocy". It could be quickly filled up with Temple Mount alien babys/Jesus 2.0, crappy shapeshifting reptillian vids, and other things that are somehow believed even though they have not one shred of proof (and no, crappy compressed video artifacts are not proof, as much as many seem to think they are). Just because someone can't or won't understand why something happens doesn't mean there's another ridiculous reason for it.

I'm sure this post will offend some folks here, but that's ok. As I said in a post yesterday, we "douchebags" aren't much worried about what the nutballs think.

Credibility is only for the credible.

What ends up in the HOAX bin are things that have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a hoax.... Understand? If something is posted on here, and it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be false and a hoax it goes to the HOAX forum.... Right where it belongs.

The very fact that the ATS community is so good ad identifying hoaxes and that there is a forum for said proven hoaxes, available to the public for all to see, so they can now tell that it is a hoax, is a GOOD thing...

It cuts back on the spread of hoaxes.... It discourages people from hoaxing and... quite frankly, if you really think that placing hoaxes in the hoax been for all to see and LEARN from, is a bad thing, then you could not be more wrong.

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I don't see what's so ridiculous about this title:

The CIA/MOSSAD, AMAN/DIA did 9/11!

They are naming four different agencies that had involvement in 9/11. It's not like they are saying "Bush did 9/11" blaming it all on one person.

I searched for "Bush did 9/11" into the ATS search and found multiple threads, none of them named a hoax

Jesse Ventura: Bush and Cheney did 9/11: www.abovetopsecret.com...

NOT labeled a hoax

9/11: the feds did it: www.abovetopsecret.com...

NOT labeled a hoax.

I think these thread titles are more ridiculous than the Mossad title. I mean "the feds did it" is blaming the entire federal government, including postal workers. And "Bush and Cheney" did it is ridiculously assuming two people could pull off the entire conspiracy.

So what have you to say to that?

I think if you reread my Original Post in the thread that claims of absolute proof should be avoided.

So some more examples might help you better appreciate or consider what I am trying to convey...

Bush Did 9-11 could just as easy be Bush Did 9-11?

Versus "Proof" or "Absolute Proof" Bush Did 9-11.

One can be percieved as a question...Bush Did 9-11, or as an opinion Bush Did 9-11

The other can't because it's being put forth as an absolute claim "Proof Bush did 9-11" or "Absolute Proof Bush did 9-11" those are not opinions or open ended statements and questions, those are claims, that then can be weighed and judged on the evidence being presented.

As I said if it's not sufficient evidence to meet a court of law threshhold and some politically inspired group or independent group of 'super skeptics' objects, then yes it's going to get hoaxed.

No use being mad at me about that, I don't own the site, and I don't make it's rules, I simply try to observe the rules, and how the site is run, and things like what leads something to being hoaxed and what doesn't.

As I mentioned it's usually about the verbiage in the Title or opening piece that makes something not an opinion and not an open ended question but an absolute claim.

For instance the title of this thread.

Abolish the hoax forum or risk losing credibility forever, ATS... might lead some to ask, who are the people that believe this, is it a personal statement, meaning the Original Poster will no longer view the site as credible, or a general opinion that no one will?

I am not going to believe ATS has lost credibility because of the hoax forum, so it's not really a title that speaks for my opinion.

Because of the vague way it's worded I can pretty much see it's a personal opinion, albeit one others might share, but had it said...

"Proof that if ATS does not Abolish the Hoax Forum or it will loose Credibility forever", I would expect to see proof that I and everyone else is actually feeling that way or thinking that way.

So what am I really saying?

Watch what you put in your Titles and opening pieces, avoid absolute claims of proof if you don't have the proof.

9 out of 10 times when I see something get hoaxed it's because someone has made absolute claims.

That's a valid observation and why you would be angry because of that is hard to say.

Thanks.

I have to agree with the OP, the Hoax forum is a travesty.
The ATS community does, and always has done, a sufficient job spotting and calling out hoaxes on our own, we don't need to be spoon fed quasi-censored information from an intellectual baby sitter and we sure don't need moderators wielding the power to label something a hoax for us.
The very idea of this hoax forum is an affront to what ATS represents, it's censoring and it's crap. If something is indeed a hoax, then the membership here is perfectly capable of finding that out for themselves, we don't need some moderator slapping a label on it for us, it's insulting and we're damned well capable of determining the validity of information on our own. Sorry for the rant, but the Hoax Forum needs to go ATS.

Originally posted by twitchy
... we're damned well capable of determining the validity of information on our own.

It's been shown again and again that this just isn't true.
People here constantly buy into the most irrational claptrap as truth, and refuse to acknowledge evidence that shows it's not. Not everyone, but a large percentage.

Originally posted by rapunzel222

Originally posted by filosophia

i totally agree with you.

i had a thread shut down becuase there was a 'consensus' apparantly that a video i linked to of what i called a shapeshifting CNN reporter was a hoax.

Saw that thread and it wasn't a shapeshifting alien for heavens sake and people pointed out how and why they appear to "shape shift." I see this all the time on my own TV. My roommate laughs because I tell him OMG it's a reptilian when it's not. It's just bad feed or the TV. They are not shape shifting.

even though quite a few members starred it and flagged it as soon as it came out.

it made me really suspicious; because no one PROVED the video was a hoax.

Just because someone flags and stars it that doesn't make it true. People on here as of late flag and star like it's the "like" button on FB, esp sensational titles like shapeshifting reporters.

Also if you were to look at any of the videos where people claim this there are PLENTY of members who point out it's not real. Also the video you posted wasn't new, been discussed before which is why it was moved or closed.

There are many members on here who do know what they are talking about when it comes to video and pictures and half you people on here just ignore that because saying someone is a shape shifting reptilian is much more fun.

the argument ran along the lines of ' dont be silly alien shapeshifting vampires dont exist; so that can't be one; it must be a compression error' - hence HOAX.

IT IS compression errors and others like it. It's not a shapeshifiting alien. Why can't you people see that? I am one who will admit that I think the possibilities of reptilians exist but I dont think they are shape shifting on tv because if they are then everyone that is on my TV is a shape shifting alien. I see this ALL the time on my tv. It's the tv or feed nothing else.

the video was apparantly off live CNN television.

just because it's on CNN it doesn't make it valid.

i just dont understand how it can be labelled a hoax without PROOF.

PROVE its a compression error or else live with the thread.

Again it happens live! I see it all the time on my TV. It's an older big screen floor model. It does this all the time while watching tv, it's not aliens. The problem is when someone tells you what it is you ignore it.

they proved nothing; yet now no one will even discuss the thread any more becuz it's labelled hoax.

There isnt anything left to discuss that is why. Also that video had been on here before. It's not the first one to pop up from CNN or Fox where someone claims there is a shape shifting alien in it. Just search ATS for "reptilian shape shifting" you will find more like it.

i dunno if the video was real or not. if i'd posted in the crypto forum they might of left it alone; but i put it in the alien forum and they couldnt handle it apparantly.

Any reptilian thread is usually moved to Skunk Works or hoax esp when it's a video like the one you posted. I hope the Beyonce one met the same fate as well. Did you see that thread? Nobody would listen to the fact it was glue from a weave, just like nobody wants to listen that it's the tv or digital feed on the TV. I dont know the exact terms but I have read enough on those videos to understand how it happens.

it effectively silenced any discussion of my thread and no one will see the video now.

There are dozens of threads just like yours and dont' take it offensively if people don't want to look at it. There is nothing there. Sorry they arent shape shifting. You can still add to your thread even in the hoax forum.

censorship it seems like to me.

Haha censorship? Really? If your thread was moved to hoax how is that censorship? Lighten up.

weird on a forum like this that discusses weird ass stuff.

i mean; so alien greys and reptilians are okay but you mention vampires and you're a nutter?

okay...

weird.

Yes there are weird ass discussions on here but why keep ones going that really have no point? It's like the threads with UFOs that are not UFOs, why keep those going? What is the point? When it has been deemed a hoax it is moved. Nobody is saying you deliberately did the hoax just that the topic isn't true.


It's really not that big of a deal. If you don't like constructive criticism then why come here and present anything to members to look at?

When I signed up I posted a thread asking who this creepy guy was and it turned out it was a photoshopped picture that had been around a while, but I had never seen it. I was happy to have the members here point me in the right direction. I felt silly afterwards thinking he was some alien in disguise

The hoax forum is great imo.

There are many threads that pop up over and over again and having the hoax forum is nice because then they have a place to rest without being on the boards getting page after page of responses when it's already been determined it's a hoax.

Mods don't just move things to the hoax forum without discussing it. IMO the hoax forum was a great addition to the site. It gives you an idea of what to look for imo.

The hoax forum is what gives ATS credibility. Without it we would simply be seen as nutjob conspiracy theorists (this still happens sometimes), but having this forum proves that the site is trying to have some level of logic and reason.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
The hoax forum is what gives ATS credibility. Without it we would simply be seen as nutjob conspiracy theorists (this still happens sometimes), but having this forum proves that the site is trying to have some level of logic and reason.

I think preventing people from being trolls keeps a forum's credibility, and I am not totally against every decision for a hoax label on a thread, to a certain extent it keeps up the credibility, but when conscious knowledge is denied in order to distract an issue that is the example of a white wash and the moderators need to be careful they do not do this on accident, all the more reason to allow the posters to come to their own decisions.

Okay, so here is another flaw with the hoax forum, the choice to make something a hoax is arbitrary. Some may say it only has to do with images or video, like with the case of UFO things, but other times it involves a personality like "Bernard Schnitzel" (aka B.S.). Take a look at this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's entitled "What we might experience during the initial shift.," and it's placed in the 2012 category. It is not labeled a hoax, yet it talks about people ascending regardless of what activity they are doing.

Physically, our bodies will go numb and limp. Unfortunate for anyone who is driving a car or flying an airplane.

So this poster is saying that at the moment of ascension, at a specific moment in the year 2012, we will all "ascend" even if driving a car. This is clearly a ridiculous and nonsensical statement to make, yet it is not labeled a hoax. It is ridiculous for two main reasons to state: that meditation is not about a universal all-at-the-same-time experience, but rather an individual experience. Secondly, the sheer physics of "2012" makes it obviously as ridiculous as y2K or any of the other thousands of times when the world was supposedly going to end, which is basically what Christianity is built upon. Yet, it's not labeled a hoax? And why should it? Anyone with a brain can tell that this is at best a metaphor and not a literal happenstance. So why label certain things hoaxes but not anything to do with 2012? Again, the hoax label seems arbitrary. Why shouldn't 2012 theories be labeled hoaxes? Usually when someone comes on ATS and blabbers away about prophecy, the moderators cease their accounts until the day of their prophecy, and if the prophecy is right, their account comes back on, but if it's wrong, their account is suspended (sort of like a weird twist on the trial of the witches in Salem). So, keeping with previous tradition, I say we suspend all 2012 theories until 2012, to see if it is true or not.

reply to post by filosophia


That does not indicate a problem with the hoax label at all. The thread is not a hoax, just in the wrong area. It should likely be in the Grey Area. But it is up to us to help the mods in this regard. No mods posted in that thread; perhaps no mod even read it. If you think it's a hoax or in the wrong forum, use the Alert button.