Abolish the hoax forum or risk losing credibility forever, ATS

It's real simple: ATS is a forum where posters from many different walks of life come together and share their knowledge, do some bickering and occasionally arrive at truth, most importantly on their own merits and accord. NOT having the "truth" shoved down their throat by having the HOAX sticker slapped onto it. Sure, some things are hoaxes, in fact 99 percent of everything coming out of the federal government is a hoax, but does any of those reports go into the hoax bin? When Obama comes out and says that Obamacare will heal millions of Americans, does ATS put it in the hoax bin? When Janet Napolitano says we need naked body scanners for our safety, is it put in the hoax bin? It should, but it's not, why? Because we're big boys and girls and we should be able to make that decision on our own. I know there are some people on here that think 100 percent of the things I say are hoaxes, and vice versa, but I still would not want ATS labeling mine or their threads a hoax, that in my opinion reveals some type of insecurity on the part of ATS, like they are scared that we can't figure out a simple voice or image manipulation on our own. I have no problem with ATS moderators coming on and saying what they think is a hoax, but when they label a thread a hoax, or worse, shut a thread down after calling it a hoax, it robs ATS of the democratic method of having people figure out for themselves if something is a hoax or not.

I realize ATS is a private website and the owners can do whatever they feel like and that's fine, but they must also realize that if their credibility is shot they won't have people coming here of their own free will because it will feel like they are being babied into being led to believing if something is real or not. If something is a hoax, then there is usually some obvious reason for doing so, and labeling it a hoax becomes redundant. Plus, if someone creates a hoax, it becomes all the more necessary to understand why the hoax was created and for what reason. All the more so we should continue to investigate a topic without the daunting label of "hoax" floating below the thread title.

reply to post by filosophia


are you really whining because you posted a hoax? get real dude. ATS is doing just fine without your golden recommendations.

Click here for more information.

The Hoax forum is an excellent idea. It'd be even better if new users would go to the hoax forum first and see what has been declared a hoax they won't have to repeat. Or ATS should have a list of things that have been debunked or known as hoaxes. Sorcha Faal articles is a prime example of what should be noted by new users.

I think this is an elaborate hoax.

I think ATS is just trying to help us to not waste our time. I for one, applaud their efforts. Can you imagine a mods job?

I think a hoax label is necessary to maintain credibility. I suppose maybe a label reading "Possible Hoax" instead might be better for particular things that are not fully agreed on.

Having a hoax forum is one of the few things that allows ATS to maintain some much needed credibility, considering all the nonsense that gets regularly posted, starred & flagged here every week.

This website doesn't need to pander to the obviously ludicrous elements of conspiracy thinking any more than it already does. Their motto is deny ignorance, not deny whatever it is you don't want to hear

I understand what you mean in a sense. When it comes to UFO's and E.T evidence that is a hoax, or is an obvious fabrication has to be labeled as such, due to the way that UFO evidence can be spread much more rapidly then lets say a government program or something the president says.

Though something may go into the hoax bin, doesn't stop people from sharing their own opinions on the subject. It just lets others know that this either has to be looked into further, or has been found a hoax, though others may not agree. I never took the word [HOAX] as a deterrent from further investigation, just a weary reminder that this has to be looked at much more carefully, and of course take others opinions as just that opinions.

Those who post on the UFO threads know what to look for, though it can be a touchy subject for most. Don't let that stop you from expressing yourself, or sharing your belief in your threads or posts, as neither a member, or even ATS can take your belief's away from you.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by Knobby


I'm married, so, nothing new.

Seriously though, there are hoax posts that pop up on ATS. The folks here catch them, and only annotate them as such. I don't see a problem with that.

What makes you think ATS has, or is worried about credibility? I've had several people question my credibility for even belonging to a site like this. Meh. Whatever.

And as you pointed out. This is not a "democracy". And this isn't the last time they're going to prove that to you. I can promise you that.

As to the hoax category. Do you know how many people purposefully try to hoax this site on a regular basis? It's ridiculous. Enough that many here scream hoax before they've even read a full post. That's how gunshy they are.

You're right. Nobody likes having their thread called a hoax. And I suspect there are a few in the hoax bin that might have been real stories. But how are we or ATS to know that?

The paranoia factor is high here. It's the nature of the beast.

Originally posted by totalmetal
reply to post by filosophia

 

are you really whining because you posted a hoax? get real dude. ATS is doing just fine without your golden recommendations.

actually, to my knowledge none of my threads have been labeled a hoax. So I guess that blows your theory out of the water.

Originally posted by Drezden
I think a hoax label is necessary to maintain credibility. I suppose maybe a label reading "Possible Hoax" instead might be better for particular things that are not fully agreed on.

ah, a thought involving moderation and not an absolute black/white ideology. You sir may be the smartest person I've met on here. (p.s. I mean that, I'm not being sarcastic, I'm sarcastic a lot so I want to stress that I really do like the idea of a "possible" hoax section).

Originally posted by mc_squared
Having a hoax forum is one of the few things that allows ATS to maintain some much needed credibility, considering all the nonsense that gets regularly posted, starred & flagged here every week.

This website doesn't need to pander to the obviously ludicrous elements of conspiracy thinking any more than it already does. Their motto is deny ignorance, not deny whatever it is you don't want to hear

but if a thread isn't a hoax but they labeled it a hoax, they are denying truth, are they not? How do you know with absolute certainty everything they label a hoax is a hoax? I have heard ats moderators openly declare they do not endorse certain hoax threads as being hoaxes, so that right there means there is dissenting opinion. Why not let democracy and debate decide, rather than absolute rule?

just to reiterate, certain things are hoaxes, and if they are so obviously hoaxes, why label it a hoax? The problem is certain things are labeled a hoax when maybe they are not, other times I know for certain it should not be a hoax. When I first came on here, I was bumped around a lot by the "experienced posters" the people who said with a sneer "that's been posted already" but the problem is a lot of newbies don't see that information. The old timers like to discredit things because they have already formed a view point and keep newbies from making their own decision. Plus, old threads are usually not recycled so if someone has something they think is new, and then ATS says "we've been there, done that," it's an insult to the new poster because they feel like they can't think freely without the experienced posters looking down their noses at them. I understand it's a tough job for a moderator but in a way they are making it more hard on themselves. With less moderating the hoaxes will surface on their own. I've never even heard of Sorcha Faal or whoever, but when someone tells me over and over again that it is a known hoax without any reason or proof, I get skeptical, just as an example, and so when people say "oh my god how could you not know sorcha faal is a hoaxer" well it sort of discredits your hoaxing of them. If it's a hoax, there ought to be a reason for it to be a hoax, not just a hoax button.

here's an example of what i think should be a hoax but wouldn't label it a hoax because it might have a backfiring effect: whenever a thread comes on about how Alex Jones doesn't talk about chemtrails or pole shifts, even though he does, it seems like an obvious hoax and an attempt to discredit alex jones. However, it's not labeled a hoax, even it only takes about five seconds of research to see that Alex Jones does talk about those things. BUT, if it was labeled a hoax, someone might think "hmm, this is labeled a hoax, maybe ATS and Alex Jones are in it together, a conspiracy to keep the truth concealed" etc, etc. Basically, the truth will come out, we don't need a Green Light: Truth, Red Light: Hoax sign above our heads to indicate what we are supposed to believe. I mean if a video of a UFO is obviously a hoax why even bother calling it a hoax? A bright mind ought to figure that out on their own.

Now, take something like this: www.abovetopsecret.com...

"The mossad did 9/11", which received 126 stars, and an unknown number of flags (the flags were removed because it was labeled a hoax). Now, if you ask some 9/11 truthers, they will tell you for sure that mossad did 9/11, and yet ATS labels it a hoax and removes the posters flags, why? It says it's based on known hoaxes. Which are those? I read through the thread, and what I got from it is that the thread was labeled a hoax because it claims no Jews were killed in the WTC bombings. However, that is not true. The thread states

out of the 4000 Israeli Jews believed to work in the trade towers, only ONE died that day.

Note this says ISRAELI Jews, not just Jews. The (dare I say) known hoax websites like snoopes.com distorts the truth by saying the claim is wrong because the claim is that no jews died on 9/11, which isn't true, the claim is that so few ISREALI Jews died on 9/11. I could post multiple links to other threads saying the same thing, that 9/11 was caused by the mossad, but this is the big one, the real research that stockpiles a lot of good information about mossad and 9/11, labeled unfortunately a hoax by ATS. Why? Because they misinterpreted the thread. Not even reading their own member's thread and instead going off of a known disinfo website, snopes.com, they labeled this a hoax. Now, combine with this the ATS rule of not duplicating threads, and ATS has successfully prevented future members from looking at the real information of the mossad and 9/11. Of course, they could find this elsewhere on the net, but this is just one example of ATS labeling a thread a hoax because of a misinterpretation, not even a real factual basis. So I hope you at least now understand why I am opposed to the hoax forum. Remove said thread from the hoax bin and I will care less if you label the myriad of fake UFO videos from the hoax bin. But if not, I must say the entire hoax bin is just a way to control the truth, nothing more.

Yeah this is complete bs! I posted a thread on Billy Meier, which is definitely one of the most intriguing cases i've ever heard of, and I'm almost certain it is not a hoax. 5 minutes later it was moved to the hoax thread...
How could you do that! Especially after a week ago it was considered to be proof of extra-terrestrial contact! All the crap people are saying about there being fake photo's and videos were planted on Billy Meier to make his case less credible... I thought ATS gave everybody a chance to voice an opinion??

Originally posted by filosophia
It's real simple: ATS is a forum where posters from many different walks of life come together and share their knowledge, do some bickering and occasionally arrive at truth, most importantly on their own merits and accord. NOT having the "truth" shoved down their throat by having the HOAX sticker slapped onto it. Sure, some things are hoaxes, in fact 99 percent of everything coming out of the federal government is a hoax, but does any of those reports go into the hoax bin? When Obama comes out and says that Obamacare will heal millions of Americans, does ATS put it in the hoax bin? When Janet Napolitano says we need naked body scanners for our safety, is it put in the hoax bin? It should, but it's not, why? Because we're big boys and girls and we should be able to make that decision on our own. I know there are some people on here that think 100 percent of the things I say are hoaxes, and vice versa, but I still would not want ATS labeling mine or their threads a hoax, that in my opinion reveals some type of insecurity on the part of ATS, like they are scared that we can't figure out a simple voice or image manipulation on our own. I have no problem with ATS moderators coming on and saying what they think is a hoax, but when they label a thread a hoax, or worse, shut a thread down after calling it a hoax, it robs ATS of the democratic method of having people figure out for themselves if something is a hoax or not.

I realize ATS is a private website and the owners can do whatever they feel like and that's fine, but they must also realize that if their credibility is shot they won't have people coming here of their own free will because it will feel like they are being babied into being led to believing if something is real or not. If something is a hoax, then there is usually some obvious reason for doing so, and labeling it a hoax becomes redundant. Plus, if someone creates a hoax, it becomes all the more necessary to understand why the hoax was created and for what reason. All the more so we should continue to investigate a topic without the daunting label of "hoax" floating below the thread title.

i totally agree with you.

i had a thread shut down becuase there was a 'consensus' apparantly that a video i linked to of what i called a shapeshifting CNN reporter was a hoax.

even though quite a few members starred it and flagged it as soon as it came out.

it made me really suspicious; because no one PROVED the video was a hoax.

the argument ran along the lines of ' dont be silly alien shapeshifting vampires dont exist; so that can't be one; it must be a compression error' - hence HOAX.

the video was apparantly off live CNN television.

i just dont understand how it can be labelled a hoax without PROOF.

PROVE its a compression error or else live with the thread.

they proved nothing; yet now no one will even discuss the thread any more becuz it's labelled hoax.

i dunno if the video was real or not. if i'd posted in the crypto forum they might of left it alone; but i put it in the alien forum and they couldnt handle it apparantly.

it effectively silenced any discussion of my thread and no one will see the video now.

censorship it seems like to me.

weird on a forum like this that discusses weird ass stuff.

i mean; so alien greys and reptilians are okay but you mention vampires and you're a nutter?

okay...

weird.

odd too becuz jim marrs gave me the idea of alien vampires.

in his book he mentions count st germain who was supposed to be a real life vampire.

yet this forum censors you if you mention the v word in the context of aliens...

again.

weird.