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N.W.O or O.W.O? Sound off.

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posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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I have been reading some material that is to me, quite fascinating. If you believe it, the NWO are the good guys, while TPTB are the OWO or Old World Order.

Makes sense that back in the day a few families took control over much of Earths wealth and have never relenquished it. Why would they want anything to change? After all, they are all ready in charge.

Why is the "media" attempting to make us fear a change to that system, a change that would be defined as a New World Order? Who owns those media outlets?

What do you, the knowledgable posters at ATS, think? Do you fear the OWO or the NWO?


P.S. armageddonconspiracy.co.uk... this is the material I spoke of if your interested.




posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Hmm yes, good point. Interesting, makes you think. Why would TPTB want to change the way things are if they already have the power? The only two scenarios I can think of that would lead to a NWO are:

1) Some secret organization takes over the World (alá the Illuminati), which in my view is a bad thing.

2) TPTB/OWO fudge up badly, show their true colors, and the people (i.e. you and me) bring in a new kind of Order, as in a NWO, which could be better I think.

I will be keeping an eye on this to see what other people say.
~Para



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by molonlabe33
 


So we should trust the people who want to reduce the worlds population by 93?%

Second line.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by TechUnique
 


The GOOD side know the old saying "the more the merrier" holds true for global change. Why would they reduce their potential by 93%??? Think first, read second, then repeat.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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The people we elect as leaders are window dressing. Replaced periodically, especially Presidents. Four or eight years max. How long do some senators serve? 40 years? More? Look at Byrd, Inoye, Thurmond, Kennedy..... and yet they are still only servants of the powers that be. So if there is fairly unlimited power and wealth concentrated in a few families, why would they take the risk of change? Its all an act. Some appointed officials have more power than elected ones. Puppeteers and puppets. NWO, OWO..... they just don't want us screwing up what they have. So, resources become more limited? Reduce users (us). Environment getting screwed up? Same answer. It's cheaper to kill us off than anything else, and since a lot of money is made on Wars and Arms, they actually make money while solving their problems! If only we would behave! tsk tsk.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by TechUnique
reply to post by molonlabe33
 


So we should trust the people who want to reduce the worlds population by 93?%

Second line.


Are you talking about the Illuminati that are behind the Georgia Guide Stones?
The New World Order?
The Bilderberg group ?
Corporations and rich banking families openly talk about De-Population, off the top of my head people like David Rockefeller and Bill Gates.

I don't want to trust these people.


edit on 26/10/2010 by TechUnique because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Anybody having anything to do with the guide stones or REMOTELY anything to do with Bildeburgers, is NOT the group I would have you trust.

Who do you trust now? Who signs their checks?

What has influenced your opinion of this group so far? Why might that opinion benefit the current status quo? Do you like the current status quo? Have I asked enough questions to get you thinking?
edit on 12-2-2011 by molonlabe33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by molonlabe33
 





The GOOD side know the old saying "the more the merrier" holds true for global change. Why would they reduce their potential by 93%??? Think first, read second, then repeat.


TPTB consider us nothing more than human cattle.

They have been implementing Eugenics programs for years. The USDA FUNDED the development of a spermicidal corn. Newborns routinely have their DNA "stolen" Tetanus vaccines were shown to have been adulterated with material that sterilizes women. A procedure to "prevent" cervical cancer is given to teens and often makes them sterile....

History of Eugenics



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by molonlabe33
 


What you are seeing is a fight for who is top dog between the two different types of Collectivists. One wants a fast violent overthrow of existing governments and the other believes in overthrow by stealth. The USA and Europe are infected by those who believe in over throw by stealth. Notice how the EU and the WTO and the UN are now dictating laws to various nations.

FDA on International Harmonization

The harmonization of laws, regulations and standards between and among trading partners requires intense, complex, time-consuming negotiations by CFSAN officials. Harmonization must simultaneously facilitate international trade and promote mutual understanding, while protecting national interests and establish a basis to resolve food issues on sound scientific evidence in an objective atmosphere. Failure to reach a consistent, harmonized set of laws, regulations and standards within the freetrade agreements and the World Trade Organization Agreements can result in considerable economic repercussions.


The end result is the same, a group of non elected elite dictating our laws and our personal rights "granted" OR removed by an all powerful state.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


You are wrong friend.

If you believe the words of your mouth, you should have died of shame knowing you too are human.

There are those who would have us surrender our fleece by force.

Those who would have us surrender it by guile.

And those of us who would have a fleece surrendered to NO ONE.

The odds are indeed against us. But I assure you, one day the ball WILL land on our number.

Stop being afraid. We are all capable of great things. It may just take some coaxing.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by molonlabe33
 


It is very interesting page ... at least introduction to Hegel's system is very well done. I studied Hegel at university and from this point of view it is perfectly correct. If you are interested in role of Hegel's dialectic in modern political thinking this article is definitively worth of reading.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by zeddissad2
 


Thank you, I hope more people will follow your example. Hegel was indeed a great genius. There is more to him, and others, that meets the eye.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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That site is very interesting. Christian's would just s**t if they read some of the e-books. Really cool thanks.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by SunTzu22
That site is very interesting. Christian's would just s**t if they read some of the e-books. Really cool thanks.

I'm still reading Hegel page and with surprise I realize that it is almost identical to Pierre Teilhard de Chardin hypothesis. To make it very simple: development of Universe is process of self-realization or self-awareness with ultimate telos - god or omega point - in absolute self-consciousness. Life and particularly humans with theirs culture and various forms of interaction are steps on this way. You can think about human history as about gradual process directed to AND BY not yet fully realized planetary consciousness. From this point of view New World Order or global government are logical steps toward this goal.
When reading Hegel, it is important to bear this concept in mind, otherwise you can become lost in dialectical steps presented in detail in body of the work.

Once again many thanks to OP for bringing this site (once again) to ATS.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by SunTzu22
 


Regarding the churches teachings just few quotas from article on Hegel:



Mind becomes an object to itself and then comes to recognize itself as this object, at which point subject and object lose their distinction. They are one and the same. The universe is rational because it is imbued with reason, with a logical mind. The universe has many flaws because, in the course, of dialectical progression, all sorts of barriers, resistances, contradictions, mistakes, misunderstandings, antitheses are thrown up, all of which must be fully resolved in a final supreme synthesis. The universe becomes self-conscious, self-thinking thought: the Mind of God. God is not independent of the universe: he is the universe. He is the self-developed self-consciousness of existence, the maximum expression and actualization of the universe's original potential. God is not identical with the universe (the philosophical position known as pantheism - "all is God"). Rather, he is the supreme Gestalt. He is greater than the sum of the parts, just as a human being is greater than all of the atoms of which he is composed. This is the philosophical position known as panentheism - "all is in God". en.wiktionary.org... provides the following definition of gestalt: A collection of physical, biological, psychological or symbolic entities that creates a unified concept, configuration or pattern which is greater than the sum of its parts (of a character, personality, or being). The True God - Abraxas - is the collection of all the things of the universe brought to a single self-conscious, knowing culmination greater than the sum of its parts. Every part reflects the whole, but only the Whole is the Whole, and only in the Whole does ultimate truth reside. The Truth of the universe and existence is Abraxas, the God that Evolved from complete abstract potential to supreme cosmic perfection and actualization. Abraxas is the only possible God. The "god" of the Abrahamic faiths is contrary to science, philosophy and any form of healthy religion. The Abrahamic god is false, an impostor. It is the Demiurge, an inferior god that failed to understand itself, and has sucked others into its delusion.




If we see ourselves as alienated from God, we have a huge problem. That's exactly what the Abrahamic faiths do to us - they alienate us from who we really are, from our divine spark. Instead of making us search for God inside ourselves, they project God onto an external figure; remote, alien, infinitely high above humanity. They make humanity bow to this being as its unworthy slaves. Humans are worthless and depraved in comparison. Nothing could be unhealthier for humanity than to be so alienated from God, to have such a negative concept of ourselves, to be so in thrall to a false god.


source

This is nothing new, it have lot of to do with Gnosis and "dualistic heresies" from Catholicism. Based on this paragraphs you can clearly realize that Catholicism is in fact dualistic in nature. Alienation or subject/object division is in Catholicism the real base of faith. Yeah - credo quia absurdum ... Do not eat that apples! Reason is devils invention.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 05:29 AM
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Can not resist to post another quota from above linked article - Bible junkies try to discuss about it :-):

The ascent of thought to pure form gives rise to the Absolute Idea, to reason that has reached its maximum expression, but at this stage it lacks all content. It can be equated to God "in himself". The spatio-temporal world is an "emanation" of the Universal Mind - Mind made "other" - in order to create an arena where content can be supplied. God cannot be God without this arena of creation. This explains why God (in himself) created the physical universe: he had no choice. The Abrahamic faiths claim that God is complete and perfect and in no way needs creation - which begs the question of why, in that case, he bothered to create the world. It becomes whimsical and superfluous; an act that makes no sense. In Hegel's philosophy, God MUST create the physical universe. It is an inescapable step on his path to maximum actualization. The physical world is a mirror in which the Universal mind can contemplate itself. Absolute Mind (God fully actualized) attains Absolute Knowledge of form AND content.

Just to make things bit more clear: the God in Hegel's sense is happening. He is first as idea or pure potential then he is slowly actualized into concrete being. Nature - self-conscious nature - is step in this actualization. From this concept arises many questions - especially about time. What is the time?



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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I start to feel like spammer but this is very interesting from my point of view and I'll appreciate any thoughts on this subject:

This is the momentous occasion where sex is first linked with sin, and the world has been paying the price ever since. "Evil" according to the Abrahamic faiths is to be aware of sexuality. How dumb can these religions be? Why didn't the Bible start with the tale of the man who stole everything from his neighbours, then forced them to work for him, relentlessly exploiting them in the process? Or is capitalism "good" while sex is evil? If we simply swapped these two labels, we could be living in paradise. Any religion that celebrates capitalism while condemning sex is evil. Christianity, the main religion of capitalism, has become the most evil religion on earth.

Catholicism was (and in part is) ideology of European feudalism. Protestantism - as M. Weber suggest - is intellectual, or better moral, base of capitalism (see his "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism"). If is capitalism based on false presumptions (i.e. original sin, sola scriptura, sola fides) is current state of affairs justifiable? Is it "natural" as many suggest? Do we are in "End of history"? Yeah, it is natural as antithesis witch must be overcome by synthesis ... witch is thesis awakening another antithesis and so on. But we are not in the end of history. We can see communism (it is better to use term Bolshevism) as antithesis to capitalism but it in many respects failed - in fact it was not communism but state capitalism - what is "planed economy" other?



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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As I think about it, this interpretation of Hegel is agnosticism with telos on steroids. Reasoning line of the writer is perfect accord with "my own" reasoning. In fact I though about one paragraph, do some conclusions and it is confirmed in another paragraph. It is great pleasure to read something so coherent. Just compare this quote with my previous postings:

Highly successful people frequently thank God for favouring their endeavours. The automatic inference to be drawn from this "logic" is that all the people who are not rich and successful - i.e. virtually the entire human race - are wicked and undeserving. If an athlete thanks God for helping him to win a race, he is, if he thinks about it, also thanking God for making the others lose, hence he isn't a very nice person, and should be roundly jeered and condemned. God has no interest at all in who wins the 100m at the Olympics.


It is perfectly in line with Weber's reasoning.
edit on 14-2-2011 by zeddissad2 because: edit to add last sentence



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 08:47 AM
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OLD WORLD secret combinations and alliances .
NEW WORLD political structure and institutions.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
OLD WORLD secret combinations and alliances .
NEW WORLD political structure and institutions.

Yes, this is for sure true. On other hand we are in situation when once progressive political institutions became conservative, or in other words serving only elite. Christianity - for example - was in early years, say before emperor Constantine the Great, and on many occasions later (Jesuits in Latin America) progressive movement. At early stages it was idea of monotheism, later generally educational and social aspect of Christianity. This progress is unthinkable without some solid institutional framework - Holly church. But same framework is simultaneously used as profane power leverage and money cow for elite.

Just remember founding fathers "checks and balances". They were very well aware that without powerful state institutions there will be very slow or null progress. At same time they was afraid of uncontrolled power of very same institutions. Once again we can see dialectics at work: every movement implicate counter-movement or thesis is base of antithesis and vice versa.



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