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Without Vision

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posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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One of the most amazing things about the Atheistic belief system is the lack of vision of its professors.

let us suppose for a second that the internet is a universe unto itself and different sites are worlds unto their own... here on ats I actually do not exist but only my words are a visible sign of my being and that I exist in the other universe which contains the real world.

I talk and I interact with non believers all the time, they believe that I am a real being and answer my words and we interact... though I am unseen in this world.

Atheists do not believe in the unseen and by automatic assumption of the structure of their belief system they should not believe I am a real person but instead more like a bot or that my words are just appearing out of the nothingness.

to follow the doctrine of atheism does not make much sense to me, because atheists interact with others in this world called ats and in this universe called the internet... seemingly believing in the unseen and taking it all on faith.

next thing you know the professed atheists are going to start claiming everyone on the internet who does not fit into their personal little world in fact does not exist.

yep makes sense to me




posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


You wrote:

["to follow the doctrine of atheism does not make much sense to me, because atheists interact with others in this world called ats and in this universe called the internet..."]

Old habits die hard in the theistic mind.

What atheist 'doctrine'? The 'doctrine' of not collecting stamps or the 'doctrine' of not believing in the flying spaghetti monster. Or maybe you've become really advanced and now talk about "the doctrine about not believing in doctrines" (I'm a follower of that one myself).

As to your internet-allegory, it misses one important point: Those who want to establish the existence of other participants on internet, have parallel verification-methods at their disposal outside the net itself. Similar to science and logic, which don't stand on one leg alone.

If you continue in this direction, you're bound to end up with solipsism; and in this case based on the unfortunate theist habit of enforcing the subject at hand into an allegory, and then go from there. Doesn't function; never had, never will.


edit on 12-2-2011 by bogomil because: typo



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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it is a fact I do not exist here... even if I showed you a picture or an avatar. I know no one here beyond this realm of ats in my everyday life, there are others who do yes but I am talking about me and the users I have interacted with can in fact not see me yet they take me for a real being... this is faith in the unseen period.

see here this is the rationality of the amazing atheist... demanding "self" administration of Ketchup and his right to having it.

when it comes to psychoanalysis of the atheistic mindset it is not very complicated... and please do not say I am not playing fair, this tool is used second to evolution by the active atheist.

the Jedi come to bring Justice and Defend peace and stability for all



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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more enlightened rationality of the supreme wisdom that is atheism... suggesting directly to only one theistic faith that includes 2.2 billion people called the Christians.

maybe the Christians should be a little more worried that one from this particular sect of atheism does not snap and go out all postal on people in McDonalds or anywhere a Christian might happen to make them angry... it is only a matter of time until the pot boils over imo. This one got his hand on a book and possibly did not even read the whole thing but even by his comments he still doubts so he is not a true atheists. it makes them angry which is not a good trait... they want to understand and they demand knowledge... this is not the way to learn.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


You wrote:

["I know no one here beyond this realm of ats in my everyday life, there are others who do yes but I am talking about me and the users I have interacted with can in fact not see me yet they take me for a real being... this is faith in the unseen period."]

I have never been to Australia, but I can verify claims of its existence (or non-existence, as the case may be) without much ado. Please demonstrate equally simple validation methods related to your systematic methodology (if you have one) on the unseen/invisible. That is if you want to make positivist claims outside the realm of the spaghetti monster.

Concerning ATS members some are probably half-way made up, by individuals wanting to protect their privacy, others can be 'reality'-verified easily with their consent.

And what does that 'prove', the way you originally wanted to use the allegory as a 'proof'? It 'proves' that allegories exist and can have' invisible' parts.
Beyond that it 'proves' nothing. It's hardly even inductive reasoning, .....and as you say: "This is faith in the unseen". Just faith in the unseen.

Quote:["when it comes to psychoanalysis of the atheistic mindset it is not very complicated... and please do not say I am not playing fair, this tool is used second to evolution by the active atheist."]

As a former psychology-student at university and having worked professionally with human mental conditions some 10 years of my life, this revolutionary theory of yours comes as a surprise. Maybe some more details on it will clarify your background, expertise, sources and the theory's clinical value.

Quote: ["the Jedi come to bring Justice and Defend peace and stability for all"]

Sounds nice. But in this context I take the reserved attitude of: "Seeing is believing".

PS I don't relate to videos and hardly ever to 'experts' I have no possibility of controlling.


edit on 12-2-2011 by bogomil because: spelling



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


You wrote:

["atheism does not snap and go out all postal on people in McDonalds or anywhere a Christian might happen to make them angry... it is only a matter of time until the pot boils over imo.]

Maybe you should clean your own back-yard, before you start making such unjustified claims on others 'boiling over'. I could have misunderstood your intention with the post though.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 05:09 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by bogomil
I have never been to Australia, but I can verify claims of its existence (or non-existence, as the case may be) without much ado.
well in fact if you never been there how do you really know it actually exists ? because of the claims of others and pictures of natural world ? did you realize that over 92% of the theists on this planet claim God is real ? (that's being generous) just because you haven't seen God or do not know of him does not mean he don't exist. Majority rules in this instance sorry pal.


And what does that 'prove', the way you originally wanted to use the allegory as a 'proof'? It 'proves' that allegories exist and can have' invisible' parts.
you got it... invisible parts that only a minority can not see or can not see or feel 'yet'


Beyond that it 'proves' nothing. It's hardly even inductive reasoning, .....and as you say: "This is faith in the unseen". Just faith in the unseen.
of it proves plenty, it proves that you are interacting with my individual yet you have not seen me... you only know landmasses or other beings exist so you are relating me to someone you admire or something you can wrap your brain around to justify even talking with me or anyone else on here for that matter. It is called believing in the unseen.


As a former psychology-student at university and having worked professionally with human mental conditions some 10 years of my life,
mkay, coming from a ditch digging auto mechanic I say straight up that 'you lie' how you like them apples ?


this revolutionary theory of yours comes as a surprise. Maybe some more details on it will clarify your background, expertise, sources and the theory's clinical value.
this sounds very professional, maybe we should pay you $200.000 plus a year to justify your existence ?


PS I don't relate to videos and hardly ever to 'experts' I have no possibility of controlling.
maybe you should send your brethren a letter telling him to chill out and give him your professional paid opinion, tell him also that he is making atheism look quite silly being that everyone else is just pawns in his little world and no one else actually exists...

this guy would not make good King...

edit on 2/13/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by bogomil
Maybe you should clean your own back-yard, before you start making such unjustified claims on others 'boiling over'. I could have misunderstood your intention with the post though.

sorry man but your way of thinking is reserved for Kings and such... the world is my backyard and we live in the age of Information and Globalism, alot of people can not handle this I know... but one thing I surely can tell you I know is... well that Mechanic down in south America or over in China, we we think along the same lines, all we want is peace and a chance at building our own prosperity. See Shrinks and Politicians on the other hand have varying philosophies and they have a long way to go to reach a mutual understanding and helping make the world a better place. Atheists like politicians are only concerned with spreading their doctrine of their own version of the truth onto others, well hate to break it to you friend but the majority of the planet don't want to hear the atheists spoiled truth... the "I don't want to work" version of the truth... instead you would rather exploit your brothers mind and try to make your living.

If we the people required every ruler of the world to be a working man I believe the whole of the earth would be a better place to co-exist. My mind lives in the stone ages I have to admit, I got my back into my living


gotta love the ad too, heh! make $450 a day doing absolutely nothing via exploiting others !

edit on 2/13/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


You wrote:

["well in fact if you never been there how do you really know it actually exists ? because of the claims of others and pictures of natural world ? did you realize that over 92% of the theists on this planet claim God is real ? (that's being generous) just because you haven't seen God or do not know of him does not mean he don't exist. Majority rules in this instance sorry pal."]

Are you trying to TALK logic to death? Get some insight in the systematic methodology called 'objectivity', and you'll have your answer.

As said on another thread, you can personally deny the validity of the 'objective' procedure, but your own claims must be supported by something more than rhetoric.

Quote: ["you got it... invisible parts that only a minority can not see or can not see or feel 'yet'"]

Yes, such as the flying spaghetti monster, which is as 'real', using YOUR own systematic methodology, as is your peculiar 'god' or theism.

Quote: ["of it proves plenty, it proves that you are interacting with my individual yet you have not seen me... you only know landmasses or other beings exist so you are relating me to someone you admire or something you can wrap your brain around to justify even talking with me or anyone else on here for that matter. It is called believing in the unseen."]

It's called fabulating.

Quote: ["mkay, coming from a ditch digging auto mechanic I say straight up that 'you lie' how you like them apples ?"]

If you concentrated more on personal competence and factual knowledge, instead of oration, you would be in a position to make such claims.

Quote: ["this sounds very professional, maybe we should pay you $200.000 plus a year to justify your existence ?"]

Quote: ["maybe you should send your brethren a letter telling him to chill out and give him your professional paid opinion, tell him also that he is making atheism look quite silly being that everyone else is just pawns in his little world and no one else actually exists..."]

Get to some sensible point.




edit on 13-2-2011 by bogomil because: typo



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Come'on, you've been here for over a year now. It's about time you dropped the bottle and pacifier and learned how to quote folks correctly with the feature provided.


This is your 'argument'?



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


You wrote:

["Atheists like politicians are only concerned with spreading their doctrine of their own version of the truth onto others, well hate to break it to you friend but the majority of the planet don't want to hear the atheists spoiled truth..."]

You make that claim regularly, and just as regularly refuse to verify it.

Quote: ["the "I don't want to work" version of the truth... instead you would rather exploit your brothers mind and try to make your living."]

To my knowledge, the alleged Jesus never lifted a finger in manual work through the gospels. And ....?

Quote: ["If we the people required every ruler of the world to be a working man I believe the whole of the earth would be a better place to co-exist. My mind lives in the stone ages I have to admit, I got my back into my living"]

Are you implying, that society should be run along the lines you suggest and represent?



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
Yes, such as the flying spaghetti monster, which is a 'real', using YOUR own systematic methodology, as is your peculiar 'god' or theism.


sorry buddy, the Christians God and the Force is not a flying spaghetti monster.. I say you're just looking in the wrong place still

may I ask if English is your second language ? because you make absolutely no sense at all, I'm just not feeling ya Bro...

oh btw, Australia does exist even if you have not been there personally.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by bogomil
Yes, such as the flying spaghetti monster, which is a 'real', using YOUR own systematic methodology, as is your peculiar 'god' or theism.


sorry buddy, the Christians God and the Force is not a flying spaghetti monster.. I say you're just looking in the wrong place still

may I ask if English is your second language ? because you make absolutely no sense at all, I'm just not feeling ya Bro...

oh btw, Australia does exist even if you have not been there personally.


Present your systematic methodology and demonstrate its ability to produce evidence, so you can support your opinions. Claims are just claims.

Until then the flying spaghetti monster is as real as any fabulated theist absolute.

So start from the start, and explain your chain of reasoning.

And I know, that Australia is real, as part of my family lived there 10-15 years. Another 'educational' point of yours of no value or relevance?

(English is my third language, and in the above quote from me a typing error (now corrected) had sneaked in.)


edit on 13-2-2011 by bogomil because: spelling, clarification



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
Present your systematic methodology and demonstrate its ability to produce evidence, so you can support your opinions. Claims are just claims.
yes here we go again... you sound very familiar
maybe you should meet and talk with some of my friends like Mr XYZ, he's a good fella and you would get along well.

What evidence are you looking for beyond the fact that I stated you are pretty much incomprehensible ?


Until then the flying spaghetti monster is as real as any fabulated theist absolute.

So start from the start, and explain your chain of reasoning.
actually figure it out for yourself, I will not make it so easy... you either feel it or ya don't. And what's this spaghetti monster thing ?


And I know, that Australia is real, as part of my family lived there 10-15 years. Another 'educational' point of yours of no value or relevance?
you are very global minded and from an astute upbringing I must say...


(English is my third language,
this explains alot... thanks for your honesty.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


I'm waiting for an explanation on how you arrive to your theistic claims.

(Your personal comments are completely besides the point of ATS purposes).



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Hey look, it's yet another thread attacking atheism/atheists! See, this is why I made a thread on this sort of thing.


Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
One of the most amazing things about the Atheistic belief system is the lack of vision of its professors.


A new addition to my "Questions for Cosmic.Artifact" series:

Question 21: How is atheism a "belief system"?



*snip*
Atheists do not believe in the unseen


Wrong. Atheists do not believe in any deity. Some of these deities (such as Thor) would happen to be visible if they existed.

Atheists could hypothetically believe in ghosts, faeries, invisible unicorns, etc.

Hell, I believe in a few unseen things. Electrons. Microwave radiation. I just don't believe in anything that doesn't have evidence to back it up. That's not because I'm an atheist, it's because I'm a skeptic.



and by automatic assumption of the structure of their belief system


I repeat:
Question 21: How is atheism a "belief system"?

Atheism is a single lack of belief. Not believing in any deity isn't a belief system.



they should not believe I am a real person but instead more like a bot or that my words are just appearing out of the nothingness.


That would be a misapplication of critical thinking. There are only two possibilities present for your existence. You're either a human being or other thinking living thing like myself typing at a keyboard, or you're a computer that has managed to pass the Turing test.



to follow the doctrine of atheism does not make much sense to me,


Hey, a slightly older question:
Question 17: What is the "Atheistic doctrine"?



because atheists interact with others in this world called ats and in this universe called the internet... seemingly believing in the unseen and taking it all on faith.


No, we're taking it on inference. We use the internet, therefore it's not a stretch of the imagination to think that most of the other people on the internet are like us.

 


Yep, yet another purely ignorant and irrational post from Cosmic.Artifact.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 

are you still attempting to hold dialogue with me ?

I won't even read your posts until you change your avatar


and to think I starred your first post in the debate... heh!



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


I'm waiting for an explanation on how you arrive to your theistic claims.

(Your personal comments are completely besides the point of ATS purposes).



I worship the Force... part of this force is Gravity...

do you deny gravity exists ?



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


I'm working on one in my spare time, don't worry. It's just taking me a while because I have to write a 3000 word paper on Iron Man and another few thousand words on Plato's philosophy of education.






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