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Meet the New Boss the Same as the Old Boss, the Tragic Outcome of Egypt’s Revolution

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posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 08:58 AM
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Not much is known about Mohammed Hussein Tantawi the deputy prime minister, defense minister and commander-in-chief of Egypt’s armed forces, and now the de facto leader of Egypt itself.

Yet one thing should be known that is rarely discussed or considered in the light it would seem wise and concerned people would. Egypt has now morphed into what is in essence a military dictatorship.

One largely welcomed (for the time being) by Egyptians who were revolting against a leader and a system, and not for a particular leader or system.

As usual with revolutions born of populist anti-government sentiments no forethought was given as to what to do to fill the leadership vacuum and how to run the nation if the movement succeeded.

Indeed the uprising reputed to be leaderless only had one clear goal and that was removing Mubarak.

Now Mubarak is gone and a Military Field Marshall and the military itself are in charge of the nation.

This would seem to me to be an out of the frying pan into the fire situation if it were to happen here in the United States, if we were to hand over the running of the nation from a corrupt political body to an even more corrupt department of defense and their military industrial complex masters.

Thanks to the mainstream media though, its ever creative spin, some religious politics, and Americans propensity to root for the underdog we are by and large seeing this as a victory for the Egyptian people, because they clearly wanted Mubarak gone.

While they and the world celebrate this milestone of removing an entrenched politician jokingly referred to in some circles as Egypt’s last pharaoh due to his 31 year tenure in office what have the Egyptians really wrought?

The powerful AIPAC/Zionist lobby along with the Saudis are relieved that for the time being the Muslim Brotherhood leaders have not taken over the nation. All the major players who have been burning up the satellites in recent weeks as the crisis has gone on negotiating an outcome that works for everyone but the Egyptians are no doubt satisfied for the moment that a professional military with strong ties to America’s the Pentagon and the Military Industrial Complex principals is in charge and in control.

But should we be, and more importantly should the Egyptian people be?

The root word of Revolution is revolving, meaning to in essence go around and around repeating the same things, and ultimately the same mistakes.

One can’t really fault the Egyptian people for taking to the streets in a popular outpouring of grievances and frustrations, not really knowing just where that might lead beyond the attempt to vent and change.

Yet they were disparate factions for the most part banded together in their common and unifying dislike for a polarizing figure as opposed to a cohesive group of individuals with similar goals and hopes in the form of a new clearly defined political system.

They and their groups no doubt run the gambit from conservative religious extremists, to liberal progressives and all stripes in between.

How they might all get together to utilize some kind of democratic process to have a more precise and defining say in the future of their nation is not clear.

Nor is it guaranteed as the military backed by key international concerns is now firmly in charge with a pacified and distracted populace keen on celebrating the riddance of what was, much more so than the state of affairs and what they have wrought.

It’s assumed that eventually there will be elections and eventually some real change, but with the same corporate hegemony looming over Egypt’s economy and infrastructure as in most nations, deeply entrenched and in control of most of the resources and opportunities what kind of change can they expect, and what kind of mechanisms have actually been created to bring it about?

None, presently from where I sit.

So while much of the world celebrates the victory of the ‘little guy’ and the ‘man and woman’ in the street, the true victor is a Military Field Marshall and the Military itself, and a handful of powerful international leaders from Saudi Arabia, Israel, the United States and the European Union who’s machinations and concessions and compromises are largely unknown because they are largely unreported.

More ominously so too are their intentions for the nation moving forward.

What becomes of Egypt’s revolution is hard to foresee at this time from this vantage in part because of all the media and international smoke and mirrors involved.

Rumors have the Saudis coming out on top as the key regional player, and not the Israelis and in all reality with the recent Hezbollah take over of Lebanon and now Egypt’s spiral to at least temporary military dictatorship the Status Quo in the vital Middle East whose oil and gas reserves fuel a energy hungry and dependent world has radically changed.

Is it a change for the better or a change for the worse?

Who is likely to be the real winner in the Egyptian revolution, the Middle East’s most populace nation?

Many will disagree with me, as it’s not just the Egyptians who presently want to celebrate the heady aftermath of a rare apparent victory for the little guy.

Many will disagree with me because most are desperately seeking some hope that the New World Order Crowd of military industrialists, bankers, and CFR, and Bilderberger Politicians is on the ropes and being rolled back.

Yet I remain of the opinion and am concerned the opposite is true, that securing Egypt through it’s military aligned with them, to perpetuate the regime of an aging dictator who had lost his vigor and vitality, and tricking the people into thinking it was all there own doing, so they could celebrate the outcome of it, and endorse it, is precisely what the New World Order Crowd wants.

So the million dollar question is why do they want it?

So for those conspiracy minded folks out there who see the globe as a chess board, that the illuminati play, and that there are no accidents or coincidences in the world that they have created and so long run and played, what is the real goal and purpose behind Egypt’s revolution.

How do you see the Status Quo changing, which of the International Powers involved in it, now enjoy the dominant political relationship, and what do you see the importance of Egypt as being in the grand scheme of things in the continued march to a New World Order that led to it being reverted back to a Military Dictatorship?

I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this.

edit on 12/2/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I've posted similar thoughts, as have others, on the same topic. You started a thread better than I could have, so a tip of the hat, PT.

Many factions are going to see this as an opourtunity NOT for freedom but for power. For control. Sure, they'll dress it up all nice and pretty for the MSM, but what laws will be changed?
Sharia in Egypt?

You can bet the car that the US state department is over there now, trying to put THEIR side together.
As is the Muslim Brotherhood and a host of others who could turn Egypt even nastier.

This ain't over by a longshot!



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Thanks for weighing in my friend. I think a lot of people have concerns that the U.S. Government and the Media have been dancing around.

One of the cheif ones is extremist religious ellements gaining power.

Israel, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia definately do not want that. Which is why I think all three are going to be content to keep the Military and a Military Strong Man in charge.

Egypt's governing apparatus and systems have not really changed, just a removal of Mubarak and a suffling in the cabinet and department head positions.

A whole lot of entrenched factions from political, to business, to banking, are still going to want to maintain basically what Egypt has had, as far as I can tell.

Still considering that Egypt was the lynchpin in the Camp David Agreements, any change in the Status Quo could have severe implications not just for Israel but the Oil Markets as the vital Suez Canal continues to be a time and cost saving transhipment route for oil.

Thanks for weighing in and sharing your thoughts.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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We know what the elites want - as spelled out in the Georgia Guidestones, not least a massive population reduction.

How do you get 6 billion people to wipe each other out? - you trick them into it of course!

Whatever the students and activists (trained by Sorros & N.E.D) have been primed to want - the NWO wants to destabilise the whole region, in order to break the multi-level Mexican standoff, stalemate that has developed, between the Sunni's,Shias, Sino-Soviets, and Anglo-Saxon establishment, UN NWO, Vatican Jesuits etc.

Precisely how they will prevent the military from stabilising their hold over Egypt remains to be seen - but try they will - if they have elections the MB is likely to win!



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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I oppose the Muslim Brotherhood because their religious agenda is to force everyone to be a pagan and submit to satanic laws.
However, they will win and have a major influence in not just Egypt. This is the way it is supposed to happen until Elohim Messiah Yahushua (G_D The Lord Jesus Christ) returns.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


I wonder if the Muslim Brotherhood has that much of a majority within the Egyptian Population or if that fear is the fear primarily of Israel and Neo-Christian/Conservatives?

No doubt the Muslim Brotherhood would be well funded by hard line Islamic states and individuals in any such election bid, but do they actually enjoy the popularity of the majority of Egyptians, in what was formerly a progressive secular nation?

Further while Mubarak stepped down the huge political machine believed to have rigged the past elections is still very much entrenched so would any candidate outside of the Powers that Be's candidate have a fair chance of winning no matter how popular or how well funded?

Thanks for sharing.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Just a reminder, the Muslim Brotherhood killed Anwar Sadat, creating the oppourtunity (even though he was injured, and it was incidental) to Mubaraks rise to power.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Violater1
I oppose the Muslim Brotherhood because their religious agenda is to force everyone to be a pagan and submit to satanic laws.
However, they will win and have a major influence in not just Egypt. This is the way it is supposed to happen until Elohim Messiah Yahushua (G_D The Lord Jesus Christ) returns.


Well lets hope not, and while it remains a real if perhaps valid fear that might happen, and that those things are true, there are of course many determined and powerful factions involved, some of the especially the New World Order types (bankers, industrialists, etc) who have a lot more experience at fanaggaling the outcomes of these things.

The Saudis recently concluded the biggest arms deal with the U.S. in the history of both nations. The tiny United Arab Emirates often overlooked has the most sophisticated jet fighters on the planet presently. Hezbollah has finally cemented a legitimate and leading place in it's very volatile political landscape, while Syria marches on unchanged in decades and decades.

Iraq is badly fractured and will never likely gain it's full independence or any cohesiveness that once made it the Middle East's most feared wild card, and Iran continues to have fins to the left and fins to the right, as it is largely rejected by the Arabs and Judean/Christian West.

So ultimately what ends up happening in Egypt moving forward could be the tipping point, and nexus on which a changing Status Quo in the Middle East revolves around.

Yes the Muslim Brotherhood certainly could prove to be a unfavorable regime for everyone else if it rises to power, but is it truly the worst of what could happen considering the different factions who will be struggling for control of Egypt and the Status Quo ultimately it is likely to change and cement.

From the early days of the Roman Empire Egypt as been seen as a huge status symbol to have under your control.

Not much has changed in the last 2,000 years, but a lot is shaping up to change in the next 10.

In a world that's often full of bad and hasty choices and compromises where if anywhere is the good choice?

Thanks for joining in.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Just a reminder, the Muslim Brotherhood killed Anwar Sadat, creating the oppourtunity (even though he was injured, and it was incidental) to Mubaraks rise to power.


And this is the thing about the Muslim Brotherhood I think it would be wise to look at. Who's lap dog is it, and is it anything more than a lap dog used to weigh in to effect change for the Master?



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Violater1
I oppose the Muslim Brotherhood because their religious agenda is to force everyone to be a pagan and submit to satanic laws.
However, they will win and have a major influence in not just Egypt. This is the way it is supposed to happen until Elohim Messiah Yahushua (G_D The Lord Jesus Christ) returns.


Not much has changed in the last 2,000 years, but a lot is shaping up to change in the next 10.



Agreed

BTW,
SnF



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by Violater1
 


Thanks for that my friend, I have a suspicion that what just happened in Egypt (that I think we only know a fraction of what was involved in it) could shape up to play a huge part in the changes coming down the pipeline.

I don't know if there is a way for us to get a handle on that, but it's probably worth the effort to try to think it through, on our own, as opposed to what the politicians and talking heads of the media want to spin and editorialize us into believing.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Well a recent survey of the Egyptian population (PEW) put support of the death penalty for apostasy at 84% and stoning to death for adultery at 82%.

Literacy is about 50% - with all material completely censored by either the Gov or Islamics.

Combined with food price inflation & civil unrest - the appeal of the MB probably working hand in hand with marxists is going to be overwhelming - I doubt the military will be able to contain them.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Its always like this. The people are just manipulated to trade one dictator that appeases and tickles whatever corporate mobster/banking elites fancy, thats currently in, without ever getting the freedom they want, and then all the deaths and hardships are in vain.

Its always been like this, but its because they failed to do the work they need to do, and that is to organize amongst themselves, envisioning a new system, and then pulling together so there would no person waiting in the wings, except their own people, who would immediately implement their joint plans, and involve all of them taking turns in counsels with running things.

My question is, is the the guy I've read about that US CIA had trained as a torturer, for some reason that is what i pressumed was going to happen.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Well a recent survey of the Egyptian population (PEW) put support of the death penalty for apostasy at 84% and stoning to death for adultery at 82%.

Literacy is about 50% - with all material completely censored by either the Gov or Islamics.

Combined with food price inflation & civil unrest - the appeal of the MB probably working hand in hand with marxists is going to be overwhelming - I doubt the military will be able to contain them.


Typically on a good day, these kinds of things play into the hands of the Powers that Be.

Dumbed down and angry masses thinking desperately and emotionally usually can be tricked into, providing a permission slip for, the very opposite of what they had hoped.

This is in essence a trick that Augustus first mastered in getting the people to demand the exact opposite of what the people really want through the exact opposite mechanism that would actually give the people what they want.

A 'reluctant' military (reluctance always being the tell tale sign of this ploy) now assumes the mantle of leadership and control in Egypt.

In essence this move absolutely prohibits any faction but the military gaining power, and no faction so well armed and with the ability to bring to bear such deadly force having any chance to control the process.

Presently I would say because of this the West's fears of the Muslim Brotherhood have all been but eliminated, but what if? And this is the big what if, the Egyptian Military and who controls it (the corporate and international puppet masters and suppliers and banks who fund it) actually have a far more sinister goal than the Muslim Brotherhood?

We tend to end up fearing a 'boogie man' who it is often simply 'imagined' to be so much worse than the actual despot that does end up seeming not so despotic when compared to the imaginarey 'threat' of the boogie man that simply makes him look like a wiser choice by extension.

So the million dollar question is the actual new boss in charge, a military field marshall, what is his next play, and his goal, and who behind the scenes stands behind him?

Thanks for joining in.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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Considering the lessons from Algeria………

If a military dictatorship could stave off Islamic rule…..

I would take a military dictatorship any day, compared to Islamic rule.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 10:23 AM
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Egypt Trades Torture Supervisor for 'Mubarak's Poodle'?
abcnews.go.com...


A leaked U.S. State Department cable posted on the website Wikileaks, which cited "academics and civilian analysts," called Tantawi "Mubarak's poodle" and said mid-level officers in the Egyptian military were infuriated by his incompetence and blind loyalty to Mubarak.



It was the people who forced President Hosni Mubarak from power, but it is the generals who are in charge now. Egypt's 18-day uprising produced a military coup that crept into being over many days - its seeds planted early in the crisis by Mubarak himself.

The telltale signs of a coup in the making began to surface soon after Mubarak ordered the army out on the streets to restore order after days of deadly clashes between protesters and security forces in Cairo and much of the rest of the Arab nation.
apnews.myway.com...
"This is in fact the military taking over power," said political analyst Diaa Rashwan after Mubarak stepped down and left the reins of power to the armed forces. "It is direct involvement by the military in authority and to make Mubarak look like he has given up power."


I tried to find information on, Tantawi , boy this guys kept his record squeaky clean,

Seeds planted early in the crisis by Mubarak himself?
Make Mubarak look like he has given up power?

That would be my guess.


edit on 102828p://bSaturday2011 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

edit on 112828p://bSaturday2011 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
Its always like this. The people are just manipulated to trade one dictator that appeases and tickles whatever corporate mobster/banking elites fancy, thats currently in, without ever getting the freedom they want, and then all the deaths and hardships are in vain.

Its always been like this, but its because they failed to do the work they need to do, and that is to organize amongst themselves, envisioning a new system, and then pulling together so there would no person waiting in the wings, except their own people, who would immediately implement their joint plans, and involve all of them taking turns in counsels with running things.

My question is, is the the guy I've read about that US CIA had trained as a torturer, for some reason that is what i pressumed was going to happen.


I honestly believe it is even more complicated than that, and has been for a very long time in a world that has a global economy and trade, International Corporations that control the near majority of the vital resources, and international banks that control the Monetary System, it would seem to me that revolutions are doomed to fail.

Yes they change the public relations face of government, and bring in new leaders who often are popular through personality cults, idealogy or speaking styles, yet always speak with forked tongues and false promises.

Many people who voted for Obama are now tragically dissapointed to find that over 2 years in to his administration nothing has really changed at all.

Indeed how could it, as it's the corporations and the banks that control the vital infrastructure and commerce of the nation and most heavily influence the legistlative process through their lobbyists and campaign contributions.

Yet what would happen if we simply cleaned house the lot of them and tried to establish a new system that ended the corporate and banking hedgemonies that control government?

Well because they are International in nature, they would just boycott the new government, make it hard to conduct vital international trade, and leave us with a currency that was worthless that no one else in the world would want to accept for goods and services.

The Corporate and Banking Beast that is in essence the Shadow Government is International, and from distant shores it can always end up compromising who ever comes out on top of political upheavels because they alone control the resources that make modern urban life possible, and they alone control the infrastructure that delivers it.

Ultimately in cases like Egypts the Infrastructure becomes crippled and no longer functions because of the throngs of people shutting down roads and other vehicles of commerce and not showing up to work to make the commerce engine work.

So yes that forces a compromise on behalf of the Powers that Be that is just usually only compromising enough to get the people back off the streets and back to work and the commerce engine running again.

Yet the Powres that Be too, can shut down commerce by controlling the flow of goods and resources and services at there source, in essence cutting them off.

In deed I do not know if it is true, but some in intelligence networks claim that the Saudis had completely shut down the flow of Oil out of Saudi Arabia, our number one source, during this crisis in order to use it as a bargaining chip to get what they wanted in the compromise.

We don't hear about these things when they can panic the masses or the financial markets in ruinous ways.

These are the games that the very big boys, with the very big toys, and the very big chips, play and bring in to play in a back room behind the scene poker game of sorts we the people never hear about.

Yet these are in fact the people who control the course of revolutions and effect the compromises from the new governments because they do have and control from the outside of the government, and independently those vital resources and services that make urban life possible.

I am of the belief that no Revolution could ever succeed fully as billed unless it was actually every nation or nearly every nation rebelling at once, so as to wrest control of the banking, energy, and food dsitribution and communications infrastructure out of the very small number of Corporate, Royal, and Vatican hands it is held by.

It's why Revolutions are all about revolving, repeating the same process, and never evolving.

Things like the worst case outcomes are always floated too, things like fear the Muslim Brotherhood, support the same old crowd of patritians and oligarchs that made them the frustrated yet formidible force they become when it comes to causing chaos.

They can't cause anything but chaos because they never control the resources or infrastructure, energy or comminication and distribution systems that would allow for a real integrated and successful change.

Ultimately power just ends up right back in the hidden hands, we never really seem to rid ourselves of.




edit on 12/2/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Ultimately power just ends up right back in the hidden hands, we never really seem to rid ourselves of.


There is some new blood that comes onto the scene but the mass media works overtime to vilify them and dig up or make up every piece of dirt they can on the person, and the same people that are screaming for change buy into it, people are delusional, you can't reach them, they fall for the hype.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Tranny
Considering the lessons from Algeria………

If a military dictatorship could stave off Islamic rule…..

I would take a military dictatorship any day, compared to Islamic rule.


Sure that makes sense considering you aren't a Muslim and don't live there anywhere.

But what about if you are a Muslim and live there.

If democracy is all about allowing the majority establish how they really wish to live and be governed, where is democracy served when you or I can dictate or imagine we should be able to dictate how other people, of other faiths, in other cultures, in other countries should live just because it's how we would prefer to live?

I would contend it is that desire and propensity to do that, that allows too many people to assume and likely falsely that the people in those nations are then going to try to determine how we live in ours.

Numerically, militarily they really have no chance to do that.

Long and short of it, is the Western Powers backed Mubarak for decades more than we would have tolerated our own government not changing, and using methods we would not endorse to change, and were able to largely get away with it for decades because we helped fund it simply because we imagined it was working for us.

To a certain extent it was working for us, but not the people, and when this happens yes Chauvinists and Extremists always become the outspoken alternative as the only people of strong enough convictions to risk providing an alternative.

Are we better off allowing such nations to chose their own government, and using say Iran or Cuba as an example, nations who revolted, kicked out western corporations and banks, and took completely over, who have remained advesarial to those things, are they adveserial because that's their true nature, or because of the international boycotts and embargos the U.N. imposes on nations who do kick out the Internationalists who seek to control their infrastructure and resources through contractual arrangements?

How many of these problems are we bringing on ourselves, because we allow our own fears to be manipulated and made real, by even more dangerous entities, the corporations that control the resources and banks, and sell us out, and control to much of our own way of life benefit from that.

We always hear how lucky we are to have what we have, and imagine it's superior simply because it plays to our egos and those notions of accepting our own inadequate status quo, but how can one even claim to support true democracy when one's notion of it, is people of different faiths, different cultures, and different regions, should adopt wholesale our beliefs and ways as the litmus test for being democratic?

That's not democracy that's dictatorial, and dictatorial by people that don't even live in these systems.

Is that wise, and is a lion share of the tension and hostility and anger in the world a direct result of it.

I believe it is.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Feb, 12 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 






Long and short of it, is the Western Powers backed Mubarak for decades


You have to question why now, after sixty years, I have my own theory, but I wont post it I prefer to watch.


edit on 112828p://bSaturday2011 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



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