Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural?

reply to post by GeminiSky


"man" was meant to be a hunter and gatherer, and work WITH a community to have what was needed. The villiagers worked together to get the food, build the shelters and to protect the land/family.

I understand how you feel. It sucks to work, work, work just to pay bills. The more you earn, the higher your bills. It is insane. This is why alot of people dream of being a famous actor, musician, writer etc..

If you want to live on a beach and be a bartender, go and do that. You don't have to be a mainstreem person if you do not desire too. Your life is your destiny.

Guys,

I cant stress this enough, break up your posts into paragraphs! Some of the best replys on this thread make my head spin while I read them, because you do not break up your responses into paragraphs!

Im glad you guys like my thread, I think it resonates with almost everyone here because most of us have been or are still going thru the very same situations.

--GeminiSky

I do feel that being self sufficient today would be incredibly hard seeming we have been living this lifestyle our whole life of going to the store to buy groceries driving our cars places to get things so on and so forth. It would take alot for some of us to learn how to grow crops and all the things that come alone with the lifestyle. So I would have to assume you would have to live half and half. Half of your living would be provided by ones own self. Like things that are easy to grow/ provide without money. The other half would have to be obtained through a normal shop setting. No offense to all of us but yes we are on the internet, the furthest thing from living in the woods. But yet the net does provide access to information on how to live like that...

Originally posted by GeminiSky
reply to post by HomeBrew

 

I agree with that, however I would be happier just living of the land and working for my own survival, which in todays modern world is pretty much impossible.

Either visit a work-share community and try to get into it (they are out there) - or - become Amish. If you are willing to convert to the Amish lifestyle and possibly live with such a family (not sure if they allow outsiders in unless you marry into the group). Google "work-share farm community" and check into one in your area.

I don't want to read the whole thread as I've read of this so much over the years. Basically - if you feel you should do something, follow that feeling. Don't be stuck working in areas you don't enjoy. I enjoy working in the computer industry - but I also know I cannot support my family doing what I would really love to do.

Living off the land is what people were intended to do - however, organizations of "leaders" over the centuries (from antient Egypt and Rome to now) have determined that creating a hierarchy of humanity would serve their purposes more. Capitalism (done right) does not produce grand palaces but rather free trade and success of the worker whether it is the independent farmer or someone working within a group or organization. Read Ayn Rand's books and you can see how we really "should" live. Capitalism how we do it in the USA is basically going to come to an end through failure of over-leveraging of resources.

If you do want to live off the land, be prepared to have more happiness, more sore muscles, more "reality" in your life an also much less money in your pocket. If you go camping for a week in the woods with very little provisions, then living off the land may be possible for you. Most people in our industrialized society could never make that 1 week.

Living off the land is not enough, though. You need to live in a community that wants to live off the land and also have a fair share of group-think with a little bit of justice built-in so that you can help those who are lacking in sharing the workload to "help more" and not just feed off of your own work. Soon, you can see a community government forming. What I read by your quoted-post here is "I want to take care of myself - screw everyone else." Everyone has a reason to be here and just taking care of yourself is not the answer. Helping others is why we're all here. So, find a community that you can accept and that can accept you. It's probably much different than a sales organization (selling sucks for those who are not natural sales-creatures). If you have access to it - actually I would suggest also working with a personal therapist or life-coach to help you get to where you are going. There is *nothing* wrong with seeking help in this area. One good online resource is www.psychcentral.com - good community and links off that site.

reply to post by Anokorok


Anokorok,

What you are currently doing has been a plan of mine that I want to see come to fruition in the next few years. I applaud you for what you have accomplished. Reading your post has made me want to re-double my efforts.

Cheers...

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

You're on the internet right now. Which means you're helping in the rape of the Earth and the communal suck that is man. Doesn't matter what you think you didn't do or not. You did. Just by typing here you are killing your fellow man.

Oh, good grief.

The easiest way to control a human is to make him feel on top of the world and as happy as can be. In fact, the biblical treatment of humanity would make rebellion the only logical answer. But human logic to such issues never got us anywhere. Thus it's frowned upon. Granted our logic abilities have greatly increases from back there, we still fail at life.

Yeah. Logic is such a useless tool. Let's dispense with it. In fact, it is logic that led me to the solution I see to the problem of poverty. And how do YOU define "fail[ure] at life?"

I have a solution too. It's quite easy. Worth rather than cash. Yes we're all created equal, but we each have unequal skills that we should earn worth because of our use of them. Use that worth to better another's worth and buy their stuff. A government is worth its citizens, rather than hoe much it takes from them. You cannot tax worth, you cannot inflate worth. You just gain it.

That's exactly what the abundance paradigm is. Just so you know, however... "Worth" is subjective.

The purpose of life is to lead a life of purpose. If the activity that takes up most of your time besides sleeping is meaningless to your soul/spirit then it goes against nature, definitely.

I used to work a super intense apartment sales job - kind of like OP's. Worked around 60 hours a week, weekends regularly, and paid salary (if I were getting hourly @ same rate I'd be rich right now).

I was paid a small salary, meanwhile my hard work would mean each "sale" I had would add anywhere from 50-200k more equity in the building.

In essence, I watched the owners of the company get more and more money while I was the soldier on the front line, if you will.

Warning to those who are fans of exponential growth in money, power, and things: Another form of exponential growth is CANCER.

To the OP...

I feel ya 100% man. I honestly don't know how people regardless of being coporate or local can stand working anymore. I agree that there are a few jobs out there that sound fun but even then, I think for me personally, it's just having a boss. I hate having someone loom over me and asking me for results. I think if I was my own boss, I'd be set.

Maybe what you can do is, take a week off work, and go on a nature trip. Find a good place to camp out and see if you truly enjoy the outdoors first. Do it by yourself, because remember, you'd be starting off by yourself. Survival of the fittest. Then if you're really satisifed with the outcome, then start gathering costs for building supplies like wood and such, and see if you need to buy a small peice of land or somethin.

I personally would die in the outdoors... I am disabled so I only work a little bit here and there, 13 hours a week or so. But I used to work fulltime 40 hours a week, plus full-time college student at the sametime and i know what it's like man... it feels like there's NO ESCAPE!! but there is, but you need a plan, otherwise there is just random thoughts with little-to-no action.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by GeminiSky

 

Well, then there are those of us who went back and still didn't find what we were looking for (i.e. not doing what we love) it's a double edged sword, no? I suppose if one wants something bad enough, they will find a way to make it happen, no excuses. The catch is: finding that thing that you want bad enough...

I know this is a side topic but what if what you want is not on this planet nor will you ever see it in your lifetime?... I know I just wanna get the hell off this rock.

This is a great thread Gemini. My significant other and myself have raised a family and are now middle aged. We plan to unload our home as soon as the market looks better and head for the hills. Our parents know we have always wanted to live in the middle of nowhere and provide for ourselves and have not been supportive, actually acting as if we just want to be "responsibility shirking hermits". They believe not having a job, even if you are not dependent on the system in any way, is evil. We did what they expected us to do and that was to stay in the city and bust butt to raise our kids. We did that. I say living a life in misery is evil. I know we're older now and the physical aspects of providing for oneself will become harder as well as distance from medical care, but I don't care. My only regret is that we didn't sell our place sooner. The only thing I want to see before I go, is my husband's happy face at not having to sell his soul every day to put a loaf of bread on the table....and God I hope we both live that long.

Everything in the workforce has shifted. You used to have extras that kept you from running for the hills. The taking of your soul was softened with a nice retirement package, benefits, vacations. Now, people truly are slaves. Just the stress of no job security and wondering when you'll be let go is enough to make a person nuts. I feel so bad when I see what younger workers have to do and what they have to be just to keep a paycheck coming in so you can then hand it off to the man. My kids are in their mid twenties and are welcome to join us when we split and I've told them we could careless if they ever have a "career". This makes us bad parents in society's eyes, that we haven't pushed for college educations, tuition debt, second and third jobs to pay it off and massive stress to give our kids every advantage in the "workforceD".

Oh well, my bad

reply to post by TomJoad
and it'll be hard work!

BUT....it'll be for you.

So... from what I've seen so far, with the OP it sounds like it was just a whiny complaint about life kicking sand in your face after building a magnificent sand castle. Not looking towards YOURSELF, but why society picks on the hard workers.


Even in this world where corporatism reigns supreme, jobs seem scarce, the government can'tmake up their mind and runs around... you ARE still in control of your life.

I would never allow myself to fall prey to working in a factory for 25 years... how could you do that to yourself? Degrade yourself, or allow society to do it for you to where you think you're only good enough for ONE repetitive, mind-draining task every day?

I've been working and supporting myself since I was 16, lived completely on my own since I was 17. I've always had my passions and interests. I love technology, everything about it. I made the decision a long time ago that was my guide to life.

I'm now 19, still live on my own, bounce between jobs every 6 months or so and trying to survive. It's damned hard, don't get me wrong. There's a lot I can't do that I would like to, but I still live day to day with a smile on my face. And I always have to look forward and positive.

Now I've also experienced work for a small company, and then in the last 2 years I've gotten a great dose of how corporatism rules our lives, and I will do everything I can to stay away from it.

I quit my last job, because I was feeling the way you were. I did not mind the work at all (was awesome at it), loved my co-workers... but couldn't bring myself to come into work. Why? That glooming, evil entity holding a giant fist over your head even while you're doing everything right, you're threatened. To work without the fruits of your labor, forced into doing something you are personally against, not be appreciated... THAT is what is against our human nature, is so degrading and distracts the good worker from providing their services and abilities to becoming a robot.

We are still human, we are animals, we are nature. We've found an 'alternative' way to living off the land -- by working for those that did all the 'hard work' for us already! You'd honestly have a much, much harder path as others have mentioned living purely off the land. You don't like your 12 hours day at the office to make your $3,000... but when it comes down to working 3 days straight through the snow and rain, 20 hours a day trying to build a shelter for yourself and your family... then spend the next 3 months 12 hours a day in the blistering sun hoping you grew your crops right to be able to feed your family. Hope you can get enough money to buy a good quality, healthy cow. Oh no! Now you need to grow MORE crops to sell to buy the cow. There's another 10 hours every weekend at the farmer's market, and having to ration your supplies and inventory them... it's pick and choose what work you want to do.

You can go to school for 8 years, work 120 hour weeks when you graduate and have everything you need in 15 years spending the last 30 years vacationing. Or, you can go at a steadier pace, enjoy life (sadly, this is where your country needs to have its # together for you to truly live happy and prosper) over 45 years, get your travel here and there, grab the material objects that mean THE MOST to you and your inner self, raise a family and prosper through the generations by providing a strong setting for your future self, family, and world.

OR, you can just work for another year. Sell everything you own, go in the middle of nowhere, build a shack, and grow a garden. Live out your days looking out the window, meditating in a field, and being completely in tune with yourself, and nature. And that's it. Would that bring you joy, happiness, control and safety? Bring you back to your nature of not having to 'work'?

So there's nothing wrong at all with this 'alternative' path of living - working in an office job or whatever. Somebody has done all the grunt work, you're going to do TODAY's work. That's where I want to be. I want to be in with technology, working with something I love and making it better, faster, and stronger. Providing for other people services they need to get on with their life. I've ALWAYS been in customer service, and I'm great at it. I love providing assistance for people and would give every situation my 100% attention. But I'll leave a job as soon as they skew from my main priority - I'll do something extra for an employer sure, but it's going to be out of my nature and you had better respect that and plan accordingly with extra benefits, rewards, etc.

Again the corporate bull# has brought me down. I quit my last job, but on a higher breath. The moment I quit, I registered for my local community college, and started looking for jobs in an industry I love and appreciate. I will live a happy and natural life, giving where my dues are needed but living to get the most out for myself.

FIND A PASSION. GET AN EDUCATION. MAKE A GOD DAMNED DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD BY PROVIDING SOME GOOD!!! You bring yourself down with everything you did... the materialistic objects, a job in sales (where your main skills are conniving, providing false promises, looking out for the corporation or the investors, looking at your next paycheck). I didn't read anywhere if you already had a family but I hope you don't already.

Last thing... GET YOUR # TOGETHER BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED, AND RAISE KIDS. Chances are you're bringing down the quality of the whole world when you can't provide for your kids in the fullest. When they have to turn to crime just to be able to get food at Middle School... When their parents are working 80 hour weeks and a gang is more parental than their family... When you get so lost in your own failures, you personally attack others and your kids. Welcome to America de Poverty, where 90% of them are raising a family that will in the end provide... a whole lot of NOTHING but more thoughtless factory workers!

I do sometimes feel the same way. When I take a step back, I notice that most of our life (at least mine) is at work. Work, come home for a few hours, sleep, repeat. I would hope that we would have more time to enjoy our life, then spend working. Maybe in a perfect world

reply to post by GeminiSky


Speaking as a chef. i left my previous line of employment because I felt the same way. I read a book about turning your passion into your career and at the time the only hobby I really loved to do was cook for people. Now, over 10 years later I can tell you that "work" doesn't feel like work at all! I love to be in the kitchen cooking, or at my desk drafting a new menu for my patrons. You could be feeling this way because you heart isn't in sales at all.

No one ever said work had to be miserable and could never be fun. What are your passions or hobbies in life? Is there a way to turn any of them into a career?

reply to post by GeminiSky


What you are feeling is based upon a reality. You are taking part -more or less intentionally- in a larger system (what they call "civilization") which negates Life and Nature in itself, only providing you with illusions of Life that are as thin and empty as a luminous advertisement panel, but keep you submitted to rules and work shifts.

So no apparently it's not unnatural to work for a living... since people have always been doing that, no matter the kind of society they were in, and what organization of labor they had.

What's unnatural is the larger process you take part in, which includes a continuous destruction, formatting and exploitation of the land and sea (as well as all its living species, us included) for the profit of people you will most probably never have the chance to hang out with... Some will tell you that this corporate way is now the only way... they are either brainwashed sheeps or ignorant fools for saying that. There are other forms of life, even though the more dominant civilization keeps invading everywhere.

All I can suggest is that you EXPLORE other possibilities of living, other social perspectives, or simply go on your own in the wilderness... no one here can know what is the right path for you, so that's why I'm telling you to explore.

You can look for anything of the likes of Intentional Community, Self-sufficent communities, libertarian communes, autonomous occupations and homesteads (a web search can be a starting point). But these are only potential options... there are less radical ones, and easy-reaching, that could interest you.

And don't worry... there are hundreds of millions of people on the planet who go or went through this same constraining way of non-life, that some call "wage slavery", so it's also right to see yourself as part of a very large group!

I you look for a way out, you'll get out of this, eventually.

reply to post by GeminiSky


I left my job 4 years ago I worked in advertising, I quote some ideas to sell anything and everything to people.
one day I wake up for work and as a slap
i said why I do this?
three months later I left my work, mycolleague who did not understand why I quite a job with full benefits and money.
my boss asked me why
I just say it was not normal to work like that
he just said we have a choice?

now each one is free to do what he likes

For my part, I am no longer part of this world for a while
and I feel fine.
and what's next ... with my money,I bought a small pretty house i'm not longer in the city
I grow my vegetables and my fruit...it was hard in the beginning but know it's good
I do not need telephones or televison, i have only my littel laptop
I make music and I earn just what I need to pay what I can not produce.

time is running and i don't want give my life to somone who don't even know my name

I do not know what the future holds for me, so I do what it takes to have no regrets

good look my brother

I feel that work IS semi un-natural, we slave away because thats what our 'betters' want us to believe for a meagre wage, for the right to live, for the right to have a nice home, to eat eyc, but all the material things we strive to gain from working, like the nice home, the car, the money must be bought foth with another question, can you take ANY of them with you when you finally die?
The answer is no, our 'better's want us to rremain ignoant of our true potential and that is the power of the mind, I think THAT ALONE is the thing we CAN take with us.
Our 'betters' want us to work for them so they don't have to, so they can spend their time learning to realise the real goal of life, to be better than we are.
But people are too distracted by bread and circuses IMHO.

Yes, I have been feeling this way for a long time. I am now 46 and unemployed. I was laid off at the end of December. I worked for a the largest corporation in the world. Im a tech support specialist. I had been having these exact feelings and wanted out. I got my wish. Now, Im trying to figure out what to do next. I have money saved and got a nice severance. I am thankfull for all the blessings that have been bestowed to me.
I've had a calling to go out west.
The problem is debt!!! It is the mortgage that keeps me locked into this position. Debt is our ball and chain. If you want to be free and go live off the land, you have to fist break the chain of debt. Although, you have to realize, that this world that we live in has been a work in progress. Our fathers, grand fathers, great.. and so on, built this world and the economic machine that we are all part of. I used to feel like, here I am, spending most of my life, here in this place. When I get home, you get a few hours with your loved ones, then, time for bed, just to get up and do it again. Do this till your 65, then you're to worn out to enjoy life. The best thing to do, is to stay out of debt, save your dollars and try to get out of the system sooner. Good luck!

Originally posted by HomeBrew
Regardless of how you go about it, one must always 'work' for food, shelter, safety, ect. It's as natural as breathing. So, no. I do not feel it's un-natural in the slightest.

But it's not natural to work your balls off for for someone else to make a profit while you only earn enough to make it through to the next pay cheque.
It's not natural to spend your live manufacturing pointless products that we don't need.

Extremely funny that you guys think work is unnatural. As you sit there on the internet typing from a computer. Probably watching tv or listening to the radio. Do you think electricity, laptops, light bulbs, furniture food etc. just comes from nowhere? Someone has to go to work in the Power plant, lay cable line, monitor networks, build furniture make the food, kill an animal and on and on. Grow up. Why don't you sell all of your belongings and move to the Midwest if you think working is so unnatural. Just type it "free land" in a browser and find a place to move.


You sound like little kids. If you think you want to become natural, buy a tent and move to the Midwest. They are giving away land for free and you can fend for yourself without having to worry about "enemies". You will just have to find your own food, build your own shter and drink water you find and filter. I think you will find this is tiresme work.

It reminds me of lazy liberals that want everything for free from a government. Free food, shelter, cars, entertainment, internet, bills money etc. It is sickening and disgusting.

Originally posted by HomeBrew
Regardless of how you go about it, one must always 'work' for food, shelter, safety, ect. It's as natural as breathing. So, no. I do not feel it's un-natural in the slightest.

if you think working 10 hours a day in natural then god help you. Most people live to work not work to live these days bc they are content. They have been sucked in by governments to believe they have to live a certain way. Follow a set of bull# rules, Soon we will be paying for the air we breath because of people with your attitude.

but do you know what is un-natural.

most people in the modern world wouldnt have the slightest clue how to truly live off the land.

Grow veggies, fruits or kill an animal to eat etc..

take away things like the super market and see what happens.