Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural?

reply to post by Disconnected Sociopath


Gotta love fight club. Office Space is another awesome movie also. Just know you're not alone brother, I can relate to everything you said. And for all you people talking about how work is awesome dont delude yourself. When you say people that dont like work make you angry you just might as well use the word jealous. Because you've forced yourself to believe that its some noble goal making other people rich, so you can feel better with yourselves knowing your doing the "right" thing. In the words of a great man Peter Gibbons, "Its not that I'm lazy its just that I don't care."

reply to post by GeminiSky


Mind over matter.

reply to post by byteshertz


all very interesting... it is easy to make money when you have money.

the demographics are numbing too, lets also look at China and India and Africa and England to see how their systems are working out.

one the next reset I will not hunt for anyone's dinner myself... they are going to have to do it for themselves

reply to post by Wildeagle

Isn't it just miraculous to see what they have achieved. That is standing up - waking up - becoming! It is such a pleasure to have been able to see a nation do such a thing, and can only hope that others follow in their footsteps, of such an awakening. It's in the works anyway. It's happening!

Oh ya its coming faster and faster...wow im so lucky to be part of the new age...

sure, living off the land is a lot more actual hard work than some office job for a wage, but the main difference is that the work you do, and how hard you try, is directly proportional to how much you gain.

If you sew yourself a deer skin shirt, you can be really careful and make it perfect and you will reap all the benefits of the work you put in. If you work in a factory sewing shirts for some rich dude that doesn't even give a # about you, you can do really well and make them all perfect, or you can half-ass it. It probably won't matter and you'll still take home the same paycheck every week. (of course this is completely different for a more creative job such as a video game artist or soundtrack composer where you are given more personal responsibility and the company is a smaller community where everyone's work is recognized by all the other members)

There is a disconnect between your efforts and payoff, the control you have over your own situation isn't as perfectly direct, which is distressing. The more impersonal and generic the systemization or bureaucracy is that sits between your labor and your reward, the more alienating it will be, and will lesson the mental connection between the work and the payoff. your gut feeling is that it's all bull# and it's not supposed to be this way, because this is a relatively new societal development and the human brain has evolved to be satisfied only in more direct, primitive situations

Whether you're living off the land in a log cabin, or self-employed from your own work-at-home website that you create and maintain yourself, the biggest factor that makes it personally fulfilling is the direct, 100% proportional connection between your efforts and reward. The feeling that you are the master of your own future.

if you worked in a very small, naturally formed group or company where everyone knew each other, everyone liked each other, and everyone actually cared about impressing each other and empowering the group through quality effort, than work would probably be super-awesome.

but these giant pyramid configurations where everyone hates their bosses, nobody knows anyone, back-stab each other for promotions, etc. jesus what a hell to live in.

Originally posted by RichardPeanut
sure, living off the land is a lot more actual hard work than some office job for a wage, but the main difference is that the work you do, and how hard you try, is directly proportional to how much you gain.

actually the basis of the rest of your statement is most likely flawed... one should be paid according to their skill, but skill is exploited by the man sitting behind the desk.

Laborers should make 200 grand a year and desk jokeys should make 30 maybe 40 grand. Plain and simple the system is flawed to the hilt and everyone is trying to ride it. Sadly there is not enough money to go around on a global scale and we worker bee's are breeding like mad.

better curb the population before shyte hits the fan and people start looking into what justifies a person owning that large home but only living in a corner of it, and driving that Benz.

Great topic. This is the kind of stuff that really gets me thinking these days - mainly because I turn 30 in a few weeks and I'm still unemployed and stuck living in my parent's basement - yes, it actually happened to me. There's several reasons for this, some I'm sure you can come with realitively fast, some that you'd have no idea of unless I sit here and type them out. While I actually WILL admit to being lazy, it's because I still haven't found exactly what I want to do with the rest of my life.

I actually went to 2 different colleges. The first one was a private school that I got an academic scholarship for - I don't think it was a ton of money, but it was enough for books and some money towards room and board; it also was the same college that my uncle graduated from, so even though I told my parents over and over again that I wasn't ready to go to college, that I wanted to work a few jobs to help figure out what I wanted to major in, it didn't matter - there was no way in hell they were going to let my scholarship money go down the drain. So... to make a long story, I went to college and just decided to pick Computer Programming for my major, because I was always messing around on the computer, taught myself some simple Visual Basic and HTML, and thought the stuff was pretty cool.

So I get to college... I loved being "independent" - having my own place to live and being able to do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted to - and from there I turned into a party animal, which ultimately led to failing out. But I still LIKED college at this point, so I decided to try another college that was in the same area.

The 2nd cool, pretty much the same stuff was going on, and I ended up failing out again - but this time it was different.. The 2nd college was a "technology institute", the first was a private liberal arts college - whatever that's worth... but anyway, I barely learned anything at all at the 2nd place. I was forced to take several meaningless classes that had nothing to do with my major multiple times because my "advisor" screwed up my scheduling... one of my professors was going thru a divorce and decided not to show up for class half the time (she did end up getting fired, but not until after I was gone.. a lot of good that does me).. my ACCOUNTING professor gave me a B+ when I went to class maybe a total of 3 times and never even took the FINAL EXAM for (go figure), all of my stoner room mates where getting bored with pot and moving on to "cool" drugs like pain killers, where they literally took turns beating the crap out of each other just so they had an excuse to go to the hospital and get more pills - and.. for some strange reason, I didn't want any part of it.

On top of all this stuff, how about we talk about some stuff like how tuition goes up EVERY semester, how the REQUIRED books for your class (usually ones that you open once during the entire year) cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars, or how you can quickly rack up hundreds of dollars in parking tickets - simply by parking your car the wrong place at the wrong time, because THERE'S NO WHERE ELSE TO PARK.

Ok, now that I got all that out of my system, let's take a minute to imagine what would happen it people STOPPED going to college... just think of all the jobs that would be lost - all of the professors, janitors, cafeteria workers, security guards, librarians, health care workers, or how about STUDENT LOAN AGENCIES, that would no longer have jobs. Does anyone even stop to think about just how important colleges are to our current economic system? Whether or not you actually learn anything doesn't really matter anymore. I wonder what you have to major in to start up your own university - there's enough new ones all over the place these days, that's for sure.

I'm sorry to be so negative, I just need to get my point of view out there. I guess what I'm really trying to say more than anything else is, if you don't know what you want to go to school for, then don't go... unless you can afford to waste a few semesters worth of bills.

But hey, don't take it from me - I'm just a troll that lives in his parents basement and plays on ATS.

reply to post by GeminiSky

Here's an idea - Save enough money to buy a piece of land. Quit your job, plant a garden, raise some cows and chickens, and become self-sufficient. I get the feeling you may then begin to appreciate having had a good paying job.

Working and bringing home money to live on is the same thing as getting up in the morning, leaving the cave, and killing an antelope to eat for the next couple of days before doing it all again.

If you ever have people who depend on you (children), your perspective will change drastically.

The closest thing you will get to what you seek is to work for yourself. At your age, now is the time to be putting a plan like that in place.

I wish you luck.

Originally posted by Time2Think
Ok, now that I got all that out of my system, let's take a minute to imagine what would happen it people STOPPED going to college... just think of all the jobs that would be lost - all of the professors, janitors, cafeteria workers, security guards, librarians, health care workers,

lets just imagine for a minute if people actually went to collage to learn a trade skill like being an Architect for a Jet mechanic or a skill of actual tangible value...

too many going for the wrong things like desk jockeying or some fantasy business management or computer programming... there is an imbalance because the parents never taught the moral of work to the kids who luckily get sent to collage in the first place.

there is an imbalance of wanting to be lazy because it is what the kids observe of the parents who can actually save to get their kids to collage.

salaries should be reversed period

Originally posted by hammerfist
Working and bringing home money to live on is the same thing as getting up in the morning, leaving the cave, and killing an antelope to eat for the next couple of days before doing it all again.

actually that couldn't be further from the truth... you mean to tell me that a fisherman in Alaska or Maine who has to physically work at his skill and invest nearly everything he owns into his trade then hope he gets enough money from his catch at the market... is the same thing as going to office in the morning to harass people about credit card debt or being a telemarketer or a web hosting service, or being a computer programmer ?

see back in the real world all along the coast of this country it was the fish boat captain who had all the houses and plantations along the shoreline.

Hi Geminisky.
Interesting thread. But the question you are asking is the question to which you really want the answer I think.

The question you are really asking is "What do I do with my life?"

I am 62 now, but once (not long ago) I was your age. I was raised and educated in Southern Ireland. We lived in a four-room cottage on the side of the road near the town of Fethard in County Tipperary (yes it does exist). The people who brought me up worked as agricultural labourers so there wasn`t much money in the house. I got as far as I could get in the State school and finished there when I was 16.

At the time it was understood that a great percentage of young people would not find work in Ireland and so they would have to go abroad. Many of my school-pals went to the US and Canada, some to Australia. Most of them sailed away with no means of ever going home again.

So I thought about what I wanted to do. What I wanted to do was travel and "see the World". For that you need money which I certainly did not have. So I needed someone else to pay for me. So I joined the British Royal Navy in the Supply & Secretariat Branch. In 11 years I travelled to 23 different countries: Singapore, Japan, Australia, Canada, South Africa, Gibraltar among others. I spent a whole year in the Mediterranean on a Guided MIssile destroyer while we ironed the kinks out of the French-made Exocet Missile. Wasn`t a bad life but....after my initial engagement was up I didn`t sign on for any more.

So here I was at 27. I got a short-term job at the BBC in Newcastle-upon-Tyne setting-up a Library of video, film & slides. It was interesting but once it was up and running the BBC decided it should be run by a Staff member so I was out. By this time I had discovered the joys of the Editing Machine: the Steenbeck. I got hold of all the out-takes and the extra material from a short item (about 3 minutes), they had made for the local evening News Magazine programme about "a local guy made good" - a singer called John Miles who had a new song out called "Music (is my First Love)". Anyway I made it into a 7-minute long film in its own right - just for fun you know?. I took it up to one of the Editors and asked him to tell me where it could be improved. He put it on his machine, cranked up the volume and played it. As it played the Programme Producer came into the room attracted by the music. He said if the song got into the top 5 he would use the film to end the evening programme with. The song went to Number 2 and the film got transmitted. End of story I thought.
Two weeks later the BBC let me go and gave the Library to a guy from London. Deep gloom.

A couple of days later I heard that Tyne Tees TV (also in Newcastle) were looking for an Assistant Editor. I applied and took my little film to the interview. The interview went OK but it was the Film that clinched it.

I worked there for 12 years, for 7 of them as an Editor, firstly on film and later on video. Good times and I would have done the job for nothing I loved it so much.

Then the Company began to shrink and generous redundancy payment were offered - too good to turn down. So I grabbed the money and moved to Spain, getting-rid of the mortgage along the way. Its cheaper to live here, the bills are small and the people and the weather are really nice.

The reason I have bored you with this is to say: You can get out of the rut no matter where you start from.

At your age I would take a look at the US Navy. You might be surprised at what you find and- - what can you lose? And where might it take you?

Not the answer to your original question. But maybe the answer to another question you might have asked?

Public Service, Arts and Trade Skills are the only things that really make the man as they say... going to collage for anything else is just a get rich quick scheme hoping to exploit off these other basic skills and needs.

and going to collage for Law practice in my opinion they should all be public servants and make no more than 50 grand a year all of them...

reply to post by ChaosMagician


great comeback post yeah your rite! maybe i need to just get out of this failed system.
Go to some 3rd world country and help out a little, now that would be interesting. all i
see is clones of people worrying about who has the biggest wide screen TV! this is not
my view of life.
Working for me used to be enjoyable, see i'm good at most things like welding, mechanic
i was even a builder for 6 years iv'e done steel erecting general DIY stuff. if some one needs
there car mending i will do it for a fraction of the cost of a garage. i have worked in these
drive in tire and exhaust replacement places and they are RIP OFF MERCHANTS they really
are! but when you get £7.00 an hour and the boss gets £107 an hour its a bit of a kick in the teeth.

I am over qualified and they wont pay what i am worth! i say i do not care for money but i have to
live in this world with rules that i do not agree with.it's an insult to be payed by some boss who just
basically is exploiting me and taking MY money when I have done all the work!

I am not interested in money i really arnt I get a buzz out of helping people. one thing i hate is greed
oh and authority, now do not misunderstand me here i am no jerk. treat me with respect and i will pay
you the same respect back.
Now many people including boss's abuse this position and love the power. they turn into jerks! you
cannot get a work force to work effectively if you do not give them any incentive or respect.

when was the last time any of you here had your boss say "hey good job there thanks your a real asset"
not much i bet. and company's have zero family values now, im talking about the UK it's ALL AGENCY
WORK! you have zero say over anything. no guarantee of how long your job will last you are replaceable
there is no job for life.

My ideal situation would be where my hobbie was my job but it's all the RED TAPE. worst thing the UK
did was join the EU.
maybe i will pack up and go on some life changing journey. The UK is so stagnant. i know longer recognise
the country i once loved. take me back to the Hunter Gatherer days any time!

Originally posted by stealthyaroura
reply to post by ChaosMagician

 

great comeback post yeah your rite! maybe i need to just get out of this failed system.
Go to some 3rd world country and help out a little, now that would be interesting. all i
see is clones of people worrying about who has the biggest wide screen TV! this is not
my view of life.
Working for me used to be enjoyable, see i'm good at most things like welding, mechanic
i was even a builder for 6 years iv'e done steel erecting general DIY stuff. if some one needs
there car mending i will do it for a fraction of the cost of a garage. i have worked in these
drive in tire and exhaust replacement places and they are RIP OFF MERCHANTS they really
are! but when you get £7.00 an hour and the boss gets £107 an hour its a bit of a kick in the teeth.

I am over qualified and they wont pay what i am worth! i say i do not care for money but i have to
live in this world with rules that i do not agree with.it's an insult to be payed by some boss who just
basically is exploiting me and taking MY money when I have done all the work!

I can totally feel you bro.. I told em to F-Off about 9 months ago and now I work for myself... I have more than enough working 3 to 4 days a week keeping all of my $40 an hour for myself. I have more money in my pocket and less # to worry about.

I provide a personal service of labor to others at half or less than half what the shops I have worked for charge (anywhere over $100 an hour) I save customers hundreds of dollars on parts alone and my labor rates are less than half.

screw all the exploiters... and I am never going to set up shop of my own either because that is where the exploit begins, having all that overhead... I work in a garage on someone's property who is a friend of the family.

screw it all... I work for my money and keep it all

Originally posted by freedish

Originally posted by ghostsoldier78
I would much rather work for myself, hunting/fishing/gardening for my food and making everything that I needed. but the only way that will work is if you have a "village" of sorts where everyone did this. So anyone on here want to start a tribe?

edit on 12-2-2011 by ghostsoldier78 because: (no reason given)

Let's do it. We can call it ATS Land. The motto is Denying Establishment. As there will be no institutions, governments, or anything such as. It will be simple like minded people living near each other, but not too close. All in favor, say "I" !

COUNT ME IN!!! this is EXACTLY what I want to do. I now understand how the old tribes felt when they got there land snatched there way of life smashed and thrown feet first into the modern world! its all about conforming to this ideal. but the system is corrupt and thus broken.
The whole communal life sounds ideal for me. i hear this more & more people are NOT HAPPY.
George Orwell was correct 1984 all over.

reply to post by stealthyaroura


see that's just the thing... I'm in too and I live in my own commune of sorts. I serve justice to others with my skill, I am in it "the fight" not dropping out trying to form my own tribe.

I am my own tribe... but if you guys ever need a auto mechanic on your commune let me know...

I expose the shyte in the automotive field to everyone I come into contact with to... in the last 9 months, my bank account which does not exist just keeps growing and growing.

I keep it all under my pillow

but the system is corrupt and thus broken.

Its corrupt for us but works just fine for the rich and powerful. When you figure out why it is what it is you will have a good idea of how to escape the tyranny.

The whole communal life sounds ideal for me.

We hippies tried it.
Did not work out so well.

For communal life, or that part of the Marxist philosophy, to work on a broad scale
everybody on the planet will have to WORK together for the common good of mankind, and
too many people in the world are just too greedy for it to work properly. It will either get crushed by some government or you end up with a warped communist regime in charge like Russia, China or Cuba.

Right now about the only thing we can agree on world wide is to kill each other off on a regular basis.

edit on 13-2-2011 by fishy6 because: (no reason given)