Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural?

Originally posted by streetspirit
This is why you get an education.

Exactly

OP, just go to college and you will find that you will have more high paying and intellectually demanding jobs than your typical blue collar grunt work or service jobs.

Just make sure to major in something that is marketable such as engineering or science and stay away from English and the humanities.

GEMINISKY!

YOU ARE READY TO GO FURTHER DOWN THE RABBIT-HOLE!

We are living in modern society with a nagging feeling of mediocre yet spirit-crushing oppression that most people can't quite put their finger on. We are all slaves... whether we realize it or not, doesn't matter whether its to government or economics, Communism or Capitalism, we are enslaved and bound to the system for life, doing things we'd NEVER choose to do freely so that we can survive (unless we are part of the lucky 5% with enough wealth/power to escape servitude).

Please read the book ISHMAEL by Daniel Quinn!! You will not regret it!

www.scribd.com... [

This is stupid.

I've been working since I was 13 years old, after school on weekend, full-time in the summers, and I'm 21 now. I've always moved up in the companies I've worked for, and I've never felt like a slave, with having to pay my own rent, groceries, bills and all that.

People are only slaves, if they allow themselves to be that way. Seriously if you don't like where your at in life, don't go blaming the system because your life sucks, do something about it. Like getting an education and furthering your career.

I could be still working #ty blue collar jobs, but I'm not anymore I decided to get an education and I'm on my way to making a living off the things that I love to do.

No one is forcing anyone to be a "slave" at least not here in Canada.

Some interesting guys on the subject of civilization and human futures are these two guys who have lots of interviews out there on YouTube.

Daniel Quinn
www.youtube.com...

James Howard Kunsltler
www.youtube.com...

As others have stated - get out of debt. Get RID of all but one credit card and pay it off. Use it for necessary items only like car rental (if needed) or travel. Get rid of car-debt too. Drive cheap and save. Money you may need in case of lay-off or job change. Don't be working in a job you don't like and have a lot of debt. You can buy some freedom by having little to no debt and some growing savings. Civilization wants you to be in deep debt and grow your FICO score. FICO is not your friend but theirs. A high FICO score means you are a great target for them to come and make you borrow more money. If you want some guidance, look into Dave Ramsey as a person who can help with this type of mind-change. You need to say "stay away" from loan officers.

I do not believe it is unnatural, in fact I believe the opposite. Granted there are some pretty lousy jobs out there, but somebody has to do it. I'm sure those people, like many others do not like their job and would gladly sit at home all day if they could. However, I believe it is human nature to work; almost like that's what we were programed to do it. Ever notice the obsessive compulsive nature many people possess? Those people always make the best workers because they literally go crazy if something isn't perfect or to their liking. How about the sense of pride many people take in their work, no matter their job atmosphere?

I for one like my job and I choose to do it some days for 12+ hours, but I also love vacations. However, if I am away from my work too long I begin to feel lazy, anxious and bored because I am out of my routine.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier78
It is absolutely unnatural. I'm 33 and been working since I was 17 at a wide range of jobs. Everything from the Army to manufacturing to painting houses to surveying etc etc. And they all have one thing in comon. Every day that you show up to work, youre walking into a dictatorship. The company can make and enforce their own rules. And can always make new ones to suit their needs as they arise. I was always told that if you learn your craft, be professional, work hard, you move up and thats how you make a better living for yourself. The truth is you can work hard all you want, the man is gonna move up his friends, family and whoever sucks up the most to him. Things like seniority and time and energy spent, or knowledge of the jobs mean nothing at all. The smarter you are and the quicker you catch on the worse it seems, and the more the bossman is intimidated by you. I would much rather work for myself, but how am I supposed to find something I love and invest time and money in it when I'm caught up with just paying the bills and putting food on the table? I have no cellphone, a 20 year old pickup, a small rgb tv to watch the weather on in the mornings, I live very modestly and learned long ago that things mean absolutely nothing in the end. Work, eat, sleep, work, eat sleep. I like many others do not have a rich family member or Bill Gates as a friend to loan me money, so what am I supposed to do? Keep on working for the dictators.


Job is an acronym for just over broke, you'll never get ahead. If you get ahead you might actually decide to quit the rat race for a while and the company just cant have that. Gotta keep you needing money every week so you'll drag yourself to the zombiemill workplace everyday.

I would much rather work for myself, hunting/fishing/gardening for my food and making everything that I needed. but the only way that will work is if you have a "village" of sorts where everyone did this. So anyone on here want to start a tribe?

edit on 12-2-2011 by ghostsoldier78 because: (no reason given)

I am infor the tribe

Originally posted by streetspirit
This is stupid.

I've been working since I was 13 years old, after school on weekend, full-time in the summers, and I'm 21 now. I've always moved up in the companies I've worked for, and I've never felt like a slave, with having to pay my own rent, groceries, bills and all that.

People are only slaves, if they allow themselves to be that way. Seriously if you don't like where your at in life, don't go blaming the system because your life sucks, do something about it. Like getting an education and furthering your career.

I could be still working #ty blue collar jobs, but I'm not anymore I decided to get an education and I'm on my way to making a living off the things that I love to do.

No one is forcing anyone to be a "slave" at least not here in Canada.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Originally posted by brindle

Originally posted by ghostsoldier78
It is absolutely unnatural. I'm 33 and been working since I was 17 at a wide range of jobs. Everything from the Army to manufacturing to painting houses to surveying etc etc. And they all have one thing in comon. Every day that you show up to work, youre walking into a dictatorship. The company can make and enforce their own rules. And can always make new ones to suit their needs as they arise. I was always told that if you learn your craft, be professional, work hard, you move up and thats how you make a better living for yourself. The truth is you can work hard all you want, the man is gonna move up his friends, family and whoever sucks up the most to him. Things like seniority and time and energy spent, or knowledge of the jobs mean nothing at all. The smarter you are and the quicker you catch on the worse it seems, and the more the bossman is intimidated by you. I would much rather work for myself, but how am I supposed to find something I love and invest time and money in it when I'm caught up with just paying the bills and putting food on the table? I have no cellphone, a 20 year old pickup, a small rgb tv to watch the weather on in the mornings, I live very modestly and learned long ago that things mean absolutely nothing in the end. Work, eat, sleep, work, eat sleep. I like many others do not have a rich family member or Bill Gates as a friend to loan me money, so what am I supposed to do? Keep on working for the dictators.


Job is an acronym for just over broke, you'll never get ahead. If you get ahead you might actually decide to quit the rat race for a while and the company just cant have that. Gotta keep you needing money every week so you'll drag yourself to the zombiemill workplace everyday.

I would much rather work for myself, hunting/fishing/gardening for my food and making everything that I needed. but the only way that will work is if you have a "village" of sorts where everyone did this. So anyone on here want to start a tribe?

edit on 12-2-2011 by ghostsoldier78 because: (no reason given)

I am infor the tribe

"In our cultural mythology we see ourselves as having left tribalism behind the way modern medicine left the leech and the bleeding bowl behind, and we did so decisively and irrevocably. This is why it's so difficult for us to acknowledge that tribalism is not only the preeminently human social organization, it's also the only unequivocally successful social organization in human history. Thus, when even so wise and thoughtful a statesman as Mikhail Gorbachev calls for "a new beginning" and "a new civilization," he doesn't doubt for a single moment that the pattern for it lies in the social organization that has introduced humanity to oppression, injustice, poverty, chronic famine, incessant violence, genocide, global warfare, crime, corruption, and wholesale environmental destruction. To consult, in our time of deepest crisis, with the unqualified success that humanity enjoyed here for more than three million years is quite simply and utterly unthinkable."
- Daniel Quinn, Beyond Civilization


"Wherever civilization emerges, tribalism withers and is replaced by hierarchalism. Hierarchalism works very well for the rulers but much less well for the ruled, who make up the mass of the society. For this reason, the few at the top like it very well and the masses at the bottom like it very much less well."
- Daniel Quinn, Beyond Civilization


"What people (aside from rulers) don't like about hierarchal societies is that they don't exist for all their members in the same way. They provide a life of unbelievable luxury and ease for the rulers and a life of poverty and toil for everyone else. The way rulers benefit from the success of the society is vastly different from the way the masses benefit, and the pyramids and the temples testify to the importance of the rulers, not to the masses who build them. And so it goes, through every phase of life in a hierarchal society."
- Daniel Quinn, Beyond Civilization


"Tribal life is not perfect, idyllic, noble, or wonderful, but wherever it's found intact, it's found to be working well--as well as the life of lizards, raccoons, geese, or beetles--with the result that the members of the tribe are not generally enraged, rebellious, desperate, stressed-out borderline psychotics being torn apart by crime, hatred, and violence."
-Daniel Quinn, Beyond Civilization



"Of course when the people of your culture look at tribal peoples, they don't see wealth of any kind, they see poverty. This is understandable, since the only kind of wealth they recognize is the kind that can be locked up, and tribal peoples are not much interested in that kind."
- Daniel Quinn, My Ishmael

[Accidental double-post]

reply to post by Blazer

If you were dumped off into the wilderness and your only job was to survive, you would be surprised at how much work that is. Just finding drinkable water can take you a day. Think you are frustrated getting paid $50 an hour to sit in an air conditioned office cubicle and surf facebook in between phone calls? Try spending 2 days hunting elusive prey animals while your stomach is growling and your hands trembling from hunger. Hate that alarm clock going off at 6am for you to start your day? Try not being able to sleep because you keep hearing something moving around in the woods near your camp. Think it's unfair when your boss confronts you about you not meeting your deadlines? Try having a black bear confront you because she wants to rip out your liver and feed it to her cubs.

And if you were to take someone who is thriving in the wilderness and is an expert at it and adapted for that lifestyle and thats all he knew, and dump him off into the concrete jungle, he wouldn't survive a week, you would be surprised at how much work there is surviving, in a place that is supposedly easier to survive in then a jungle. Just to find drinkable water and a roof over your head and basic necessities like bathing and eating, in a place were no one would even notice you there on the streets, would require more then knowing how to hunt and plant some seeds. Especially since there is concrete everywhere, and the only game to hunt like cats or dogs will land you in jail.

You think they were frustrated in the jungle were food was everywhere and all he had to do was spear or trap it, and build a roof over his head with all the scarce wood around him, and skills past down for generations to him in surviving in such a ecosystem. Now imagine a place were he cant even sleep on a bench at the park without getting hassled by the cops. And just imagine trying to be able to sleep in a ditch at night because you keep hearing gang members or drug dealers or worse serial killers or just sadistic people out for a little fun tonight, and these predators not only have sharp foot long claws they like to call knives, but guns also. And there all moving around in your neck of the concrete jungle near your piss smelling ditch/home, were your just trying to get some shut eye, a black bear to worry about, would start to sound pretty reasonable to him about now.

Now you think its unfair dealing with a black bear who stays away from humans unless hungry, and would rather pick on something more smaller like a deer, then a human who can kill it, and lets not forget all the bad and scary animals in nature like squirrels and rats, and raccoons or those iky spiders and ants, out to get your food supply in the makeshift food storage you build. But I'm sure some boss somewhere will hire him for something he has never done before in his life or even heard about, sure why not every boss out there likes people who stick of there own feces, and are in torn an ripped clothes. Shouldn't be to hard for him to find a job, now should it.

Ah just messing dude your post was interesting and funny, but alas there are dangers in both walks of life, and all places have there "predators". And bad things can happen in all places, especially if you go there without being prepared for it all. I'ts not smart to go into the jungle unprepared especially when your whole life you have been conditioned and become accustomed to one way. And its sure as hell not smart to go into the concrete jungle unprepared, if the vice versa happened. Both have there ups and downs, and both can kill you, in different ways. But that does not mean both are unlivable.

im 18, been working in the trades for a few years...

its too hard on my body already (playing sports didnt help either)

im currently on medical leave

dont know how im suposed to do this for the rest of my life...

maybe i should be a sales guy like you

Originally posted by GeminiSky
I would like everyone on this thread to understand that by posting my OP, I am in no way looking for an excuse to be lazy and sit around the house all day playing video games. I am a hard worker and very dedicated to whatever it is im doing at the moment. It just feels that working most of the day is not how my life was meant to be lived.....

--GeminiSky

I get what you're saying. I just say I'm not motivated by money, when I get out of bed every morning, what drives me is not the object of paying the bills. We're having to be all corporate with how we go about our business all day everyday. Even on our off-days, we still have to schedule our time, so we can pay the bills. Isn't it ironic to use bills to pay bills?

Now that we're catching-on, they're moving us to plastic. The purpose of living a human's life is not to pay the bills.
With everybody competing against everybody, where is there any time left to cooperate? If we could all cooperate and not compete against each other everyday, would we still need bills to pay the bills? I say no.

Originally posted by HomeBrew
Regardless of how you go about it, one must always 'work' for food, shelter, safety, ect. It's as natural as breathing. So, no. I do not feel it's un-natural in the slightest.

It's not working that is the problem here. It's the -type- of work. I just don't think human beings were meant to sit in cubicles or be indoors all day (think of the movie office space). We were meant to explore, hunt down prey. Collect fire wood. Protect our families. Plant gardens. (Well we still do those last two). But that's the way things were for 99% of human history and it only started to change after the dark ages. Some would argue that our modern day lives are so much easier now because we don't have to worry about a lot of things like predators, and storms and where you will get your next meal. But on the flip side, our fast-paced work environment has its worries and it can be way more stressful. Is our comfortable pain free life worth it?




I will always remember my 5 day hike on the Appalachian trail with my brother. We only had the food and clothes in our packs and we had to look for streams to get water. It was great fun, but -it was tough!-

And being out in the wilderness changed me. I started paying attention to little things in nature like the direction of the wind, the color of the leaves. The types of bugs in the area. The typography of the land. I felt more alive than ever, and more myself. I felt like I had purpose. Which is ironic because we had no set direction or destination, and no where to be except just to enjoy the mountains and be in nature.

When we got back to my car and in "The Real World" nothing made sense. Driving felt un-natural. The noise of traffic was odd. The starting up of the engine as I put keys in the ignition caught me off guard. I was feeling mental stress and fatigue again for the first time since I began the hike. And I must say this: that while sitting in a comfortable cushion car seat was great, it too felt un-natural. So maybe there is a more natural world out there...But it seems so far off from the noise of traffic and hustle and bustle of our daily lives.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that yes the kind of work most people do is un natural, but what other choice do we have?

I'm not sure if working is natural, but hat depends on what you call work.

Everyone needs a purpose.

I suppose that during the first 12 years or so of your childs development you should not have to work cause that is your purpose to properly raise your children. It is sad to me to see so many families where both parents work and seem a little disconnected from their children.

We should all take our turn shoveling crap for a living, i think that would give a better common respect for one another. On that note some people are just better at things than others. We ARE NOT all equal. As much as hate to say it, capitalism is probably the only system available where we can separate the managers from the workers. I don't believe however that just because you are a child of a successful person that it automatically qualifies you as manager. I think that is what breeds people hating their jobs is that more often than not your manager does not show quality above your own and you hate working for someone that does not deserve the position. "It's no what you know, it is who you know" has to go

I

It really depends on what you are working towards and how you feel about your job. I think that the majority of business and enterprise are all bought up which causes an influx in entry level positions, even for people who have taken college classes at esteemed universities. I had a friend that graduated college and still had to work at wal-mart to pay off loans. It really sucks.

Originally posted by Steam

Originally posted by streetspirit
This is why you get an education.

Exactly

OP, just go to college and you will find that you will have more high paying and intellectually demanding jobs than your typical blue collar grunt work or service jobs.

Just make sure to major in something that is marketable such as engineering or science and stay away from English and the humanities.

Maybe you missed it, but he's okay with his pay. His issue is with jobs that are not satisfying or fulfilling.

College doesn't mean he will be satisfied with his line of work. College is only necessary if you want to go into the corporate world. Which, by the looks of it, is not doing well.

Intellectually demanding jobs is the worse choice. Trends are looking that most of those intellectual jobs will be outsourced overseas (ex: india/pakistan/philipines) or will be replaced by technology (ex: tubotax, legalzoom)

I recommended it before.. Daniel Pinks book, "A Whole New Mind - Why Right Brainers Will Rule The Future" will give all the specs on these trends and why people like the OP are feeling this way.

I have two friends that majored in Engineering and both of them do not work in there field of study because Engineers don't make good money. They both run their own businesses in their early 20's.. And its not just about making more money.. Just the thought of waking up to serve another mans business is f*cking depressing.

Glad those days are over.

I agree its unnatural to work. But many people think its simply a choice of slaving for someone else or "going backwards" to the golden days of tribal living. Its funny though because what we really want is the VALUES of tribal life, ie. we all take care of each other and cooperate to enjoy life, not work like slaves. What about moving forward? How can we combine tribal values and modern living?

Heres a first draft on an article I wrote addressing the subject of a "Right to Sustance". Whats the point of the Bill of Rights if our basic, biological needs are not being met. In fact, theyre being used against us! Hunger and the need for shelter are DEBTS that we must work to pay off. The needs of your own body are used as collateral to get you to labor for the rich. Enjoy! And realize we must PROGRESS, not regress.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by subby
Only a SOCIALIST REVOLUTION can save us now.

Until the heart of humankind changes, I honestly don't think any system will work. Socialism is the concept dujour and one that you see many people clammering for these days. In fact, we are being led down a path into a subtle socialism. What people often don't realize is that the ethereal, high-minded concepts that make it sound attractive are just marketing concepts to get everyone - after years of wearing them down - to enter into such a system. When that occurs, it is the final wealth transfer from all the classes to a top few. While some would argue that that is okay, who needs all these classes, destructive and materialistic wealth - and I agree - what the few want is to - like the currencies along the way - debase the people to a servant class.

If one doubts this, look at the history of Russia. Communism on paper looks pretty good. However, what brought down that regime was the corruption of man through the Central Bankers. At the heart of every collapsed society is greed. And as is happening now, the Central Bankers are at it again with pretty much the whole world. To further clarify this point, Mayer Amschel Rothchild said:

Give me control over a naitons money, and I care not who makes the laws.

So, from the lips of a member of the wealthiest family in the history of the world, what is he telling you what he thinks about governments, societies, etc.? So, again, it will lie in the heart of man to make a change before we can have any system that would be equitable and just.

So, I think what people are really fighting for is not freedom from this or that system, to this or that system per se, but rather freedom from tyranny and its debasing our sovereign human experience.

Originally posted by 11I11

Originally posted by jonnywhite

Originally posted by 11I11
Its only our desire for the material things in life that keeps us enslaved. If we lived in a forest money would be useless and therefore we would have no need for work. Nature provides everything we need to exist.

Its only our desire for sexual perversions in life that keeps us bitter. If we lived in a church community sexual perversions would be mute and therefore we would have no need for them since faith is all we need. Church provides everything we need to be happy and not sexually driven.

edit on 12-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Thats a very bold statement my friend. There have been cases of sexual abuse within the church, so I am not sure your statement is correct.

His statement is not correct- he is brainwashed. Religions are brainwashing factories. And sexual repression (which the church teaches) is what causes neurosis and mental illness. This is why you see priests molesting children. Its not natural to abstain from sex, to repress sexual feelings. Balance is key.

In the book "The Function of the Orgasm" by Dr. Wilhelm Reich.. He states that the cause of neurosis stems from sexual repression. And also, that when people are sexually repressed, their obidence to authority is easy to hold. This is why the Church teaches people to repress sexual desires- easy to create brainwashed obedient followers.

Originally posted by TomJoad
reply to post by GeminiSky

 

dude, not impossible. there are plans available online to have enough energy wherever you live to get completely off the grid and live comfortably. as well as ways to farm water, wherever. and just about anything you can think of. free life. just gotta have enough dough to get started. chickens and goats along with an awesome garden and prayers to the rain gods. good to go.

This sounds interesting....What websites offer this sort of thing?