Wisconsin Gov. Walker to Dissolve Public Service Unions in Budget

This is nothing more than a union busting move and there is no doubt about it. To put it another way, these guys are just copying a move right out of the Rahm Emanuel playbook, which is to never let a crisis go to waste. Their budgets are in the red and they've decided it's the perfect time to de-unionize the state.

If I'm not mistaken, when the various contracts were negotiated with the unions, promising specific wages and benefits in exchange for work performed, didn't the state or the city or those representing management also agree to the terms (promises) as set forth in the contract? Why is it that now, after the workers have lived up to their end of the bargain and done their job for 30yrs., that management can step in and say "sorry, we lied about keeping our end of the bargain" and we're not going to pay what we promised? I'll tell you what we call that where I come from, we call it BULL#!

I think what these states need is an egyptian style uprising, orchestrated by labor, on their own capitol steps. On top of that, I think that the day is rapidly approaching where labor is going to have to stand up on a national basis. I think that everyone associated with organized labor should strike for one day to show solidarity and just to give those who would renege on their promises a taste of who their messing with. I would like to see just how well this nation functioned on a day when all organized labor stayed home.

reply to post by Janky Red

You guys and your RED herring witch hunt are reckless, blame the piss ons with spoon and ignore the Billionaires with Back - loaders.

Since when have I blamed Americans for anything the power hungry Sociopaths have done???? I HATE the Banksters and Corporate Cartels! I just do not like the National union leaders because I am not sure they are not in bed with the BANKSTERS!

This is because theFabian Socialists are chameleons. The primary symbol of the Fabians is a “wolf wrapped in a sheep’s skin”. They are the elite behind the "New World Order" as it were.

Fabians are not above calling themselves anti-socialist, conservatives, liberals, moderates, or any other name in order to achieve their goals of centralization. They are not above joining any group that can be used to influence official and public opinion to achieve their goals and indeed, they have succeeded over the decades to do just that....

The primary influence on Wilson was Colonel Edward Mandell House, the Fabian who was influential in the founding of the Council on Foreign Relations along with the bankers: J. P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, Bernard Baruch, Otto Kahn, Jacob Schiff and Paul Warburg. As we know, House was also heavily involved with the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank, the Round Table Group and the forerunner of the United Nations, the League of Nations. All, each and every one of these institutions, including any ancillary organizations, is completely Fabian in concept, ideology and agenda.

Unions are exactly the type of group they love to control.

Originally posted by beezzer
Time to wean the children and let them plan their own darned futures without using the rest of us as their retirement pln.

Would this be the retirement plan that they all paid into, and accepted as deferred wages? The one that was agreed upon by the employer as well as the union? First move by the Big Boys...turn the little people on each other, and scape up the remains for themselves.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Would this be the retirement plan that they all paid into, and accepted as deferred wages? The one that was agreed upon by the employer as well as the union? First move by the Big Boys...turn the little people on each other, and scape up the remains for themselves.

It is not just the Unions that are the Target!

US Departments of Labor and Treasury Schedule Hearing on Confiscation of Private Retirement Accounts

Many of you have asked me do I think the government is going to confiscate our 401 k and IRA accounts. The writer of this article thinks the process has started.

On August 26, the US Department of Labor issued a news release :www.dol.gov...

It lists the agenda for the joint hearings being held with the Department of Treasury September 14-15, 2010 on what is euphemistically called “lifetime income options for retirement plans.” The hearings are being conducted by the Labor Department’s Employee Benefits Security Administration.

...as I understand it, is to push for the US government to eventually nationalize (confiscate) all assets in private Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs) and 401K plans!

The US government is desperate to get its hands on private assets to help cover soaring budget deficits...

Obviously, an outright seizure of assets would meet stiff resistance from the public. So the confiscation will never be described as such by government officials. Expect to see terms such as “retirement income protection” thrown around. It is highly likely that such a program would be implemented in steps to help overcome public opposition.

The US government plan is to eventually take ownership of all assets in IRAs and 401K accounts and replace them with US government “Treasury Retirement Bonds.” In the October 2008 hearings, it was proposed that these bonds pay a 3% interest rate. Another major change is that, upon retirement, the individual’s retirement account would be converted into an annuity. Once the individual is deceased, the individual’s heirs would not inherit anything (similar to what happens now with Social Security “accounts”)....

reply to post by kainamiken




Our family, personally, has agreed to concessions many, many times as well as taking 25% paycuts, relocating to different states at great expense, or the ultimate concession of completely losing a job at an age where it will almost impossible to find another. Yet we're supposed to continue to fund union pensions and listen to your whining? You do realize if these additional concessions from the unions don't happen, that losing jobs will be the next step. 6,000 state employees will be layed off and 200,000 children will be cut from the Medicaid program in Wisconsin. But, hey, feel free to join us in the private sector anytime. Trust me there will be a line of unemployed happily waiting to take your job.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by beezzer
Time to wean the children and let them plan their own darned futures without using the rest of us as their retirement pln.

Would this be the retirement plan that they all paid into, and accepted as deferred wages? The one that was agreed upon by the employer as well as the union? First move by the Big Boys...turn the little people on each other, and scape up the remains for themselves.

Give me a break! They pay into it like we pay into social security. You want to sign a contract that promises unicorns and rainbows?
Go ahead.

The rest of us still live on planet earth, however.

Originally posted by joyride0187
reply to post by kainamiken

 

You do realize if these additional concessions from the unions don't happen, that losing jobs will be the next step. 6,000 state employees will be layed off and 200,000 children will be cut from the Medicaid program in Wisconsin. But, hey, feel free to join us in the private sector anytime. Trust me there will be a line of unemployed happily waiting to take your job.

How about you pester your governments to invoke a 'Buy American First' policy with all of their suppliers. If you need a little boogy money to get you over the initial hump...stop all your wars. You have representatives on all levels. Tell them they are personally accountable. Run for office yourself to press the point.


...or sit back and blame it all on the unions.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by beezzer
Time to wean the children and let them plan their own darned futures without using the rest of us as their retirement pln.

Would this be the retirement plan that they all paid into, and accepted as deferred wages? The one that was agreed upon by the employer as well as the union? First move by the Big Boys...turn the little people on each other, and scape up the remains for themselves.

Give me a break! They pay into it like we pay into social security. You want to sign a contract that promises unicorns and rainbows?
Go ahead.

The rest of us still live on planet earth, however.

Oh...that would be the contracts that employers signed before they realised that people with no jobs can't buy the stuff they get made offshore? Why not stop blaming your brothers and sisters and put the blame where it belongs!

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I put the blame on the union reps that drove their own people into the dirt.
I blame the greedy union reps that wanted something for nothing.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I put the blame on the union reps that drove their own people into the dirt.
I blame the greedy union reps that wanted something for nothing.

What nothing? I was a Chief Steward for what was considered an enlightened employer, and management kept me real busy as they broke the rules that they had negotiated in the first place. And I will remind you...no employer gets unionised that doesn't deserve it!

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I put the blame on the union reps that drove their own people into the dirt.
I blame the greedy union reps that wanted something for nothing.

What nothing? I was a Chief Steward for what was considered an enlightened employer, and management kept me real busy as they broke the rules that they had negotiated in the first place. And I will remind you...no employer gets unionised that doesn't deserve it!

Broker me unlimited funds, broker me a candy-cane future filled with nothing but sunshine and rainbows.

Reality has to bitch-slap someone, sometime.

Thirty years ago, the unions' mafia-leaders were giving "campaign contributions" to politicians, and the pay-off was that the politicians gave the unions a ladle of benefits from the public trough.

The public would have never (and did never) vote for all the cushy "public service" union benefits, which is why the sweetheart deals had to be made behind closed doors in the first place.

Now that the politicians who got rich on union dues are being replaced by new politicians, the old deals don't have the backing in state houses and city halls anymore.

Its about time.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I put the blame on the union reps that drove their own people into the dirt.
I blame the greedy union reps that wanted something for nothing.

What nothing? I was a Chief Steward for what was considered an enlightened employer, and management kept me real busy as they broke the rules that they had negotiated in the first place. And I will remind you...no employer gets unionised that doesn't deserve it!

Broker me unlimited funds, broker me a candy-cane future filled with nothing but sunshine and rainbows.

Reality has to bitch-slap someone, sometime.

Howzabout you take it out on the ones that screwed you, instead of your neighbours. You're working the Big Boy's plan to a T.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by joyride0187

 

Good. This is step in the right direction. This is not a solution, mind you, but a positive turn. This "public service" union teat has got to be shut off. Time to wean the children and let them plan their own darned futures without using the rest of us as their retirement pln.

I know that you are way too ill informed with regards to unions to understand this but I going to attempt to explain it anyway. During contract negotiations, these union people gave up wage increases and deferred those payments into their retirement plans to fund "their own" retirement and this was agreed to by management. (Many times, these were wage increases offered up by management in exchange for some working condition that they wanted to achieve.) Instead of deferring the payments into the retirement plan as agreed, the employer decided to utilize those funds for other purposes and now that they're broke, they've decided not to pay at all.

Let's say you happen to work for an employer who is not union and the terms of your employment include participation in 401K where your employer has agreed to match your personal contributions to some degree and then, after 30yrs. of working and contributing to your plan, you think that you're ready to retire when you employer steps in and says; "Guess what, I never contributed my agreed upon portion of your retirement so you're screwed." Wonder how happy you would be then?

A person is only as good as his/her word.

Originally posted by Flatfish
A person is only as good as his/her word.

And apparently the governor of Wisconsin has no honour.

Originally posted by antonia
reply to post by joyride0187

 

But yeah, let's cut a teachers pay. They make 50K a year, the bastards. The irony here is taking money from public sector will hurt you because they will have less money to spend. Therefore things like retail and other sectors will see their profits go down. So how are you helping yourselves?

Please explain how eliminating collective bargaining (not eliminating the contract) lowers wages. Here in Michigan I once had a pay raise. 4 years ago. We're a 15 employee printing company that primarily does work for municipalities including sending out property tax statements, producing forms and the like.

The reliance of local governments on property taxes/fees to collect revenue has fallen due to the failed housing market. I fail to understand where the taking of the money from the public sector comes from other than the government(s), local, state and national failing to simply do their jobs which exist only at the permission of the governed.

Given the poor quality of United States pubic education system, it is probably time to not only eliminate bargaining with the unions but also firing sub par public sector employees just like they would insist if I produced sub par printed forms for them to use. End union protection, end union bargaining and end it now before it's too late to save the entire damn country.

Originally posted by crimvelvet

It will be entirely ironic when we are decimated By Chinese Communists and American corporatists in unison.

You are making the mistake of thinking the Banksters and Corporate CEO are Capitalists. Far from it they HATE capitalism. THEY hate Competition. Most are "Socialist Fabians" AKA Cecil Rhodes, the Round Table, Council on Foreign Relations.

Did you see the word "CORPORATISTS"?

I am in fact make a distinction out of respect... I am not mistaken in the slightest, your warm idea hinges on the
mentality of the agents who fleece this nation, but I assure you a billionaire will take or leave regulation depending on the regulation, but more importantly depending upon the enforcers beliefs. To say that they hate capitalism is ignorant IMO because THESE people use the model very well. You contend that because this current American system is not capitalism because it is not pure, I contend I just got paid
CASH in exchange for my labor FIVE hours ago I paid five bucks for a greasy meal thirty minutes ago and I
paid for this computer with capital in exchanged for my time too. I am man enough to say the system you imagine is perverted, but it is shear double thought to expect me to think that I did not undergo 1,2,3 .... 8 capitalist exchanges today, there was nothing socialistic about my day but the roads and the johns along the way.

Where you really go wrong is thinking that people give a good hot damn what they call the process they bank on . Rhetorically speaking you could stand there for decades pondering this same question, you could KILL every
union member and char-broil all the lefties and this country will still bleed out jobs and capital. In this global economy under CAPITALISM, SOCIALISM, CORPORATISM there is NO financial reason to keep this country
strong, it is a wounded animal and they are hungry, I am hungry, YOU are hungry for what it is bleeding.
My freedom is PURELY dictated by what this country is bleeding, you seriously think a mindless fictitious
business entity cares about its path or its meta impact on the host? You idealism does NOT and cannot
impede the motive that we all have, which is to be paid, to be free. The corporatists who HURT America
do not hear AMERICA's cries, BECAUSE AMERICA DOES NOT CRY, literally. there is NO compunction,
profit is not frowned upon, so what is the disincentive?


You mix morality into this modern business era, life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
Now while half of America cheers over the fact that the teachers are going to have to get second jobs, our children are going to get more retarded and less competent. Those teachers are not going to have the same volume of capital to circulate into the local economies, the saved taxes will certainly be used by billionaires (who are given the benefit) to further drain this nation dry because that is what is profitable to do. The money that the dreaded teachers and cops previously received, will be utilized to invest in some cheaper market place, simple, easy,,, makes dollars and sense. I mean this is the same tune since how long??? Unions are a dying breed, their death has not made this situation any better. Giving Billionaires better returns has not helped,
FREE TRADE agreements,,, is that helping??? Privatizing prisons, is that helping???

If we are talking statistics and last century, this nation did much better with strong unions and much higher top tier tax rates.
My point is to simply show that this nation has NOT benefited by reversing either, which then would imply something else is afoot.

I have have several examples here, you are free to offer up any statistics you like and mine WILL WIN -

reply to post by Janky Red


You waste your time. Idealists imagine man as he should be, not as he is. Man's nature is very different from what people idealize. Man is greedy, always scrounging for another dollar or morsel. We suppress it that with law, with morality, religion, etc, but at the end of the day, that nature remains.

Those who proclaim things won't change without organized labor are working off an idealistic proclamations. While there are problems of corruption, there will be little redress without the ability to organize. Go look at walmart. Their employees get next to no health care, very little pay and were even docked their overtime once. There was a huge lawsuit a few years ago in which they paid of millions for that offense. They still dock people (and I know this because I've seen it) because most people aren't gonna fight because they need what little scratch they get. They save more money docking overtime than they ever paid out in a lawsuit. No, employers are not going to suddenly be moral. At least in a group you have more strength. If you think you can do everything on your own-Well, go Galt.