Sled dog massacre and the meat on your plate.

I agree completely on the confinement of raising an animal and then slaughtering it w/o it ever having a life. See, I run a small homestead farm in illinois for myself. The cows/chickens etc are all my pets as well as my lifesource. The best part for them is they have a good life and are raised right, not confined. Its a sad thing to do to send one to the butcher shop but thats just the cycle of life. I know its hard for me, but I also know I give them the best life, strictly organic but the best I can give them. I still eat meat, I have nothing against vegans but meat eatting is my lifestyle. Its just who we are as humans to survive on meat.
Just my 2 cents

Originally posted by Jinglelord
reply to post by Chai_An

 

What a person can't do is say that their core moral is sustainability and then preach meat eating. That is hypocritical.

This is your opinion and it's also propaganda (political correctness). Again I'll say it again, this is the same old," I'm better (or in this instance ) more moral than you because I live this or that way".

reply to post by Chai_An


This is not opinion. My opinion is that its fine to eat meat, I'm a meat eater.

This is not propaganda! This is fact. Eating meat is a much greater impact on the planet. It takes something like 50 times the space and resources to create a calorie of meat over a calorie of vegetable matter. You can look it up if you want exact numbers, it is well researched and distinctly not propaganda.

Originally posted by Lightrule
Hello

True or false:

A lion will eat a deer to feed itself and survive?
A man will eat a cow to feed itself and survive?

A lion shoots the deer in the head painlessly killing it before eating it ALIVE?
A man... oh you get the idea.

Gain a little perspective please.

-Lightrule

P.S. -
Murder - n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows.

You hold yourself to the same non existant morals as a lion. We can wheel out a whole host of things animals do. Can start with incest.......

Ya know I can't write anything about vegitarians any more except what we say around here near the reservation.Vegitarian:indian word for lousey hunter

Originally posted by droid56
But I have to ask if there is any difference between the heinous sled dog massacre, and what happens in slaughter houses every day? The trauma and fear experienced by the animals is probably similar. Sorry meat-eaters, but this is true.

Were the dogs subsequently eaten? That's your answer.

I vacillate between vegetarianism and meat eating. I try to eat a balanced diet. I try to cook my food. I believe the human body can utilize nutrients better when the food is cooked. I do eat some foods raw, mainly fruits, some veggies and some times even meat. When I'm out in a restaurant and I order prime rib, I want it as close to raw as they can cook it. Generally I like my steaks really rare. I go for periods of not eating meat, most recently the months of November and December. It gets cold here in the winter and I couldn't seem to stay warm when I wasn't eating meat. I work outside quite a bit, so I'm back on meat again. I've seen animals slaughtered, pigs and cows mainly. When I was little I watched my grandmother chop a chicken's head off. We had it for Sunday dinner, it tasted good. Some times when I pray over food I thank the Creator for the animals that give their lives so that we may eat.

The difference between a lion and a man, is that the lion chases its prey to take it down. The man raises a prey just to kill it later on in its life to eat it.

So the difference here, is that for the lion, the other animal has a life and a chance to escape. The man raises the animal, meaning that it doesn't have a life to live (besides slaughter) and it can't run away.

I understand that modern slaughtering technology and food production is a very unpleasant business and is one of the reasons why I don't eat pork any more.I like pigs.

I'm a weightlifter.I could live without meat,but it'd be difficult.So I eat Corned Beef.

I think that everybody should at least try to accept that different folks want to eat different things.


(By the way,veggies eat the food of my food.)

reply to post by krimletch


So the real difference I see between the lion and the man is that the man will kill a healthy animal in its prime while the lion kills the old and weak. That is the circle of life, not the wholesale slaughter of animals in their prime...

Originally posted by Jinglelord
reply to post by krimletch

 

So the real difference I see between the lion and the man is that the man will kill a healthy animal in its prime while the lion kills the old and weak. That is the circle of life, not the wholesale slaughter of animals in their prime...

Humans have learned that the old and weak are not the best source of nutrition and have the means to select the better source wheras lions, though hunters, take the easy route and are active scavengers by picking off the least able to survive.
So humans have the intellectual advantage over the lion.

People should be careful about how much iron they receive, like most things it's toxic in the wrong doses, and like most heavy metals in the wrong doses they build up in the body. It has nothing to do with the philosophy of eating.

If you have the choice not to eat meat then dont. You are not living in the wild to talk about human survival and human nature... you are living in a more civilized earth than hundreds of years ago, nearly everyone who is reading this have the choice to choose between killing (or contributing, same thing) or not killing.

Originally posted by alonzo730
I vacillate between vegetarianism and meat eating. I try to eat a balanced diet. I try to cook my food. I believe the human body can utilize nutrients better when the food is cooked.

"Deny ignorance."

I feel like this sums up the majority of posts here at ATS anymore. Things that are just written, not explained, blatantly unfactual, and worst of all - unchallenged.

See you Einsteins on March 15th.

Originally posted by krimletch
The difference between a lion and a man, is that the lion chases its prey to take it down. The man raises a prey just to kill it later on in its life to eat it.

So the difference here, is that for the lion, the other animal has a life and a chance to escape. The man raises the animal, meaning that it doesn't have a life to live (besides slaughter) and it can't run away.

Ah, but if man didn't raise the animal it wouldn't exist and would thus have no life at all

There have been numerous studies (including the show MythBusters) that show that plants feel pain. In fact, studies showed that plants somehow react to even the THOUGHT of pain (react to you just thinking of damaging it). That alone is mind-blowing, but consider the next time you rip into a head of lettuce or happily chomp on a celery stick while seemingly secure in your moral superiority - how much difference is there in you chewing up the body of a plant that was "murdered" to be on your plate and a carnivore chewing up the body of an animal that also died to become food?

Yeah, yeah, there is the whole "but plants don't have a soul, or a face, so it's okay to kill and eat them" thing. But again consider the fact that studies show that plants react to just the THOUGHT of hurting them, which is something that as far as we know, animals are incapable of. So it could be argued that plants feel even more pain, and more suffering, than animals do.

Originally posted by Blazer
There have been numerous studies (including the show MythBusters) that show that plants feel pain.

I believe there are studies that show when plant is damaged, a chemical response occurs. I don't know of any studies that have shown plants experience a sensation of pain - or any other feeling. Do you have a link to any of these studies?

how much difference is there in you chewing up the body of a plant that was "murdered" to be on your plate and a carnivore chewing up the body of an animal that also died to become food?

I care for all life, however I can minimize the amount of life I take by eating a vegan diet. Even if you consider plants and animals as equal, a vegan diet results in less death of both plants and animals. Minimizing harm to life is morally righteous.

Not only has this topic been covered ad museum, but really, it amazes me the number of people that discount the ‘pain factor’ and their own accountability in massacring plants.

You really think when Bambi nips that little bud off the tree, the little bud doesn’t feel it? Doesn’t ‘scream’ in its own way?

Well they do. Scientific fact proves plants and vegetables feel pain and even know when its coming.

Only difference between the plant and us slaughtering Bambi? We can’t hear the plant.

Think a that next time you sink your teeth into vegetable or eat an oyster on the half shell.

peace

reply to post by silo13


Can I get some science links please? Of the research I have seen in the past, the best supporting evidence for plants feeling pain is that when they are damaged, they release chemicals in reaction to the damage. This is not evidence of pain, or any feeling at all. It is evidence of a chemical reaction.

How do you know when you eat a plant it doesn't feel good? How are you making the leap from chemical reaction -> pain ?

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed


People say plants can’t ‘feel’ pain due to having no nervous system.
This is false.

Plant Brain: Each root apex harbours a unit of nervous system of plants. The number of root apices in the plant body is high and all brain-units are interconnected via vascular strands (plant nerves) with their polarly-transported auxin (plant neurotransmitter), to form a serial (parallel) nervous system of plants. The computational and informational capacity of this nervous system based on interconnected parallel units is predicted to be higher than that of the diffuse nervous system of lower animals, or the central nervous system of higher animals/humans.

source

DALLAS--Research scientists at Baylor Medical Center have proven that plants, including vegetables, feel pain when subjected to trauma such as being yanked out of the ground, peeled, cooked, and eaten. "Veggies and plants initiate a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury," says professor Barry Lindzer. "This response is akin to the nerve response and endorphin release when an animal is injured.

source

is not new: botanists have known for a long time that plants have defensive mechanisms. But in June 2002, researchers in Bonn found that plants emit ethylene gas when under attack. The scientists also attached microphones to the vegetation and observed that whereas the plants normally emitted a bubbling sound, under attack from insects, they gave off piercing screeches. Scientists at the Baylor University Medical Centre in Dallas have measured the chemical response of plants to being pulled up, peeled, cooked and eaten. The results, said Professor Barry Lindzer, showed that "plants initiate a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury". He continued: "This response is akin to the nerve response and endorphin release when an animal is injured. We cannot ignore the similarities." Scientists from Michigan State University say that plants have a rudimentary nerve structure that allows them to feel pain. "The nervous system is undeveloped, but it is there."

This is only a little piece of the article - the rest of it is well worth the read.

Point Being:

In one of the many threads on this subject someone said 'We wouldn't eat animals if they could talk'...

I agree.

But with plants? Just because we can't 'hear' them scream (which they do by the way) does not mean we're not causing them pain/damage.

That plant (or animal) you're going to eat - is/was alive. You kill it? It dies. In that, even if you do not believe you're causing pain, you're causing death. Pain you can recover from, death, you cannot.

peace