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Postal Service warns of default as losses mount

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posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 09:18 AM
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Our little town has 2 post offices one in the black area and 1 in the white area. Now they want to close the one in the white area and people are up in arms. 6 blocks apart and they want to sue to keep the smaller one open instead. my comment was just on a Monday morning have a sign in the window closed and transferred to the north office.




posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by MikeNice81
 


This notion that the USPS does not consume tax dollars is nonsense. The notion that it is a private/public entity is nonsense. It is a government entity.

The government approves (and sometimes denies) the price of postage

Who do you think will pay the debt of the postal service? Do you actually think that they will either allow them to raise rates to pay off their debts?

Who do you think is on the hook for these unfunded pension mandates, the postoffice or the tax payer? Of course it is the tax payer.

Can the Post Office simply declare bankrupcy? Will they shut down the union contracts and renegotiate them? Will the government allow that to happen? No

As far as folks who live in rural areas, they should spend extra for mail service. They have made a choice to live in the sticks and the rest of us should not have to subsidize their lifestyle. Obviously someone who lives a block from the post office is cheaper to service than someone who lives 10 miles away from it. One is subsidizing the other.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


So basically they have never taken tax dollars but, they might if they go bankrupt. That is not a current subsidy. Congress may determine the price of postage. I don't think they would refuse to raise it again. In the last 15 years the price of a stamp has increased by nearly as many cent. Again that is not a subsidy.




As far as folks who live in rural areas, they should spend extra for mail service. They have made a choice to live in the sticks and the rest of us should not have to subsidize their lifestyle. Obviously someone who lives a block from the post office is cheaper to service than someone who lives 10 miles away from it. One is subsidizing the other.


When somebody buys a Toyota Tundra they are subsidizing the purchase of a Prius. Toyota can sell the Prius at a loss because of the profit made on their trucks and SUVs. When somebody buys Micrsoft Office they are subsidizing the sell of X-Box Elites at a loss. When somebody buys a prescription in America or other developed country they are subsidizing the free drugs and discount drugs. That is how companies like Merck can donate free medicine to African countries.

They don't take a loss you pay the difference. What you are talking about is the way most major corporations work. They average the cost out across all customers in order to maintain consistent pricing in a market.


edit on 13-2-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by bluestar.ranch
I have heard of some "ethnic groups" but it pertains to all federal postal employees... that have "drug problems" get to go to "club fed" for months of relaxing, therapy and detox.. with full pay benefits and paid for with your tax dollars... not THATS A PROBLEM... POOR SOULS THEY ARE THE VICTIM OF SOCIETY... NOT REALLY THEIR FAULT YOU KNOW......


BS. Plain and simple. What you heard was wrong. Anyone going to rehab, etc, is doing in on their dime.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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Unless they mail all of the federal government and agency mailings free of charge, they most certainly do take tax payer dollars. Any company that contracts with the government for pay is taking tax payer dollars. That may seem like splitting hairs, but it doesn't change the fact that the statement the USPS made here is patently false and misleading.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
This notion that the USPS does not consume tax dollars is nonsense. The notion that it is a private/public entity is nonsense. It is a government entity.


Back when the Anthrax scare was ongoing, the USPS asked Congress for money to help fund and install biodetection systems for the offices.

They were turned down. Seems like Congress didn't have any money for USPS, but plenty of money for the airline industry.

So much for consuming tax dollars.


Originally posted by dolphinfan
As far as folks who live in rural areas, they should spend extra for mail service. They have made a choice to live in the sticks and the rest of us should not have to subsidize their lifestyle. Obviously someone who lives a block from the post office is cheaper to service than someone who lives 10 miles away from it. One is subsidizing the other.


That has to be one of the more asinine things I've ever heard suggested.



posted on Feb, 13 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
Unless they mail all of the federal government and agency mailings free of charge, they most certainly do take tax payer dollars. Any company that contracts with the government for pay is taking tax payer dollars. That may seem like splitting hairs, but it doesn't change the fact that the statement the USPS made here is patently false and misleading.


You're right. It is splitting hairs.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by MikeNice81
 


The two Toyota scenario is bogus. First of all, it is a common business practice to attempt to become a loss leader, in other words, selling a product at a loss to gain marketshare, keeping competetion out of the market and then raising prices. It is typically seen with new technology.

Toyota is far different than the USPS. Toyota makes a profit. They maybe selling the Prius at a slight loss as a part of a long term strategy, but they make it up with other models. Does that mean the buyer of the Tundra is subsidizing the buyer of the Prius? No. It means that Toyota has a pricing mix for their vehicles that makes sense over a multi year plan.

The problem with the post office is that everyone is forced to use it, hence there is a massive subsidy going on. The second problem is that they are losing $1bn/year. If Toyota lost $1bn/year for the last 10 years like the USPS, you better believe that there would either be new folks running the firm or it would have been sold to another auto firm who was competent enough not to bleed cash.

I'll ask again - what will happen if the PO can not right the ship and they continue to lose money? You have significant numbers of pensions that need to be paid and they continue to bleed cash and need to constantly have their debt ceiling raised. Who is on the hook for that? How does that matter get resolved? Can they declare bankrupcy? If they do, who are the creditors? You and I are the ultimate creditors and as such, to the extent that the PO needs a bailout, which they do, we will pay it.

Whether you think it is a reasonable model, this public/private business or not, the fact is that it is not working. The fact is that they don't have the freedom to operate in a market, e.g. to stop doing business in certain areas, raise prices as they see fit, stop offering certain services. it does not work and it will not work.. The Post Office is dead and its time to put a fork in it and come up with a different model



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


The main reason it is not working is because in the mid to late 1990s the USPS spent a ton of money on new realestate and improving existing locations. They were turning a nice tidy profit and decided to upgrade for their customers. Unfortunately they are sill tangled up in debt over a lot of those facilities and improvements.

That limited their ability to adapt to new technologies. So, as e-mail caught on and security issues arose they had to pour out more money to keep up. Unfortunatley getting to the heart of the matter is too complex for most news sources. It is easier to blame unions and pensions than the CEOs that have screwed up. To look at the over all market and the enviroments that have caused the issue doesn't make for three minute reading. That means it probably won't be covered untill the system fails. Then a dozen authors will come out with books explaining it and telling us we should have seen it coming.

I agree some things have to change. I just had an issue with the insistence that it was a subsidized service. It isn't a subsidized service. I also disagree that they have a monopoly on mail. I have sent contracts, letters, and other documents through UPS and Fed Ex.

Unfortunately the USPS does have some restrictions in place that limits their ability to handle some packages. I think those restrictions should be lifted. I think they should eliminate Saturday delivery as well.
edit on 14-2-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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Obsolete!

ALL mail should be electronic... Remove most of the transportation and save billions.

Premium services should remain for people and business that need to send things, but the majority of mail can be transmitted electronically from any region to another... Where it can be printed and delivered to homes for a standard rate.

People keep their jobs, no default, and the system works better and faster.

Let me run the postal service for a year, make some changes and adjustments and in time make a profit, or would that be a surplus?




edit on 14-2-2011 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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amazes me how a entity such as this can be called federal post office and get away with it
will this be the next bail out?



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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There is a difference between the United States Postal Service and the Post Office, they are not the same.

There are others that will know more than myself, but I believe the Zip Code gives jurisdiction to certain folks that collect money for a living, They would not be able to maintain this action as "letters" arriving via some other method would not give them legal jurisdiction. This would mean, without the "mail" being delivered via this traditional form, the request for certain payments could be ignored. The ZIP is actually and enslavement tool. Folks like Protoplasmic Traveler, Daddio and Xploder will be able to confirm this. This means you'll always get mail.



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