Sen. Rand Paul Opposes PATRIOT Act Renewal

nice.

Gives a pretty solid history lesson on why the 4th Amendment was inserted into the US Constitution.

Of course, a coercively funded government will never respect a piece of paper simply because it has a monopoly on the use of force, judgement, and the issuance of money.

No piece of paper is going to constrain that menace.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Good video!

He has a solid point; yet I disagree.

The PATRIOT Act should be renewed.

Why?

Here is my reasoning;
1; the Patriot Act was created following 9/11 to stop terrorism in the United States.
2; there have been no terrorist acts in America since it was enacted.

What's my point?

My point is;
1; if the Patriot Act is renewed, we can hold the government accountable for any terrorist activities;
the people: "why didn't the government tell us of this attack; they have been monitoring the people for years!"
2; if the Patriot Act is not renewed, the government can avoid the blame for any terrorist attacks;
the government; "the American people didn't want the Patriot Act, we tried to protect you, you wanted your Freedom more than your Life. it is regrettable, but it is not the fault of the government, it is the fault of the people."

renewed; we are safe from the Evil of our government.
not renewed; we are open to harm done by the government. ["false-flag" operations.]

It is not the Patriot Act that is the problem, it is the government, the system.

Originally posted by ProphetEzekiel
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Good video!

He has a solid point; yet I disagree.

The PATRIOT Act should be renewed.

Why?

Here is my reasoning;
1; the Patriot Act was created following 9/11 to stop terrorism in the United States.
2; there have been no terrorist acts in America since it was enacted.

What's my point?

My point is;
1; if the Patriot Act is renewed, we can hold the government accountable for any terrorist activities;
the people: "why didn't the government tell us of this attack; they have been monitoring the people for years!"
2; if the Patriot Act is not renewed, the government can avoid the blame for any terrorist attacks;
the government; "the American people didn't want the Patriot Act, we tried to protect you, you wanted your Freedom more than your Life. it is regrettable, but it is not the fault of the government, it is the fault of the people."

renewed; we are safe from the Evil of our government.
not renewed; we are open to harm done by the government. ["false-flag" operations.]

It is not the Patriot Act that is the problem, it is the government, the system.

Keep dreaming. Yeah, you can hold your government accountable but will it matter? No. They will say "We need more control...to secure your safety from Muslims - I mean, terrorists." The Patriot Act does not stop any and all terrorists and will not stop the government from doing false-flag events to strengthen their control over the people. What needs to happen is the Patriot Act be not renewed and the government does a better job of stopping terrorism while the people do a better job of standing TOGETHER and be critical and wary of the government. You also need a genuine media that is completely neutral or at least supportive of the people. Good luck getting that one...

Originally posted by DevilJin

Keep dreaming. Yeah, you can hold your government accountable but will it matter? No. They will say "We need more control...to secure your safety from Muslims - I mean, terrorists." The Patriot Act does not stop any and all terrorists and will not stop the government from doing false-flag events to strengthen their control over the people. What needs to happen is the Patriot Act be not renewed and the government does a better job of stopping terrorism while the people do a better job of standing TOGETHER and be critical and wary of the government. You also need a genuine media that is completely neutral or at least supportive of the people. Good luck getting that one...

True,

but which would be more profitable to their goal;
showing that they cannot protect the nation.(renew)
or
showing that the nation cannot protect itself.(don''t renew)

if it is not renewed and a terrorist attack happens, they have a greater excuse to permanently take away even more of our rights.

Originally posted by ProphetEzekiel

Originally posted by DevilJin

Keep dreaming. Yeah, you can hold your government accountable but will it matter? No. They will say "We need more control...to secure your safety from Muslims - I mean, terrorists." The Patriot Act does not stop any and all terrorists and will not stop the government from doing false-flag events to strengthen their control over the people. What needs to happen is the Patriot Act be not renewed and the government does a better job of stopping terrorism while the people do a better job of standing TOGETHER and be critical and wary of the government. You also need a genuine media that is completely neutral or at least supportive of the people. Good luck getting that one...

True,

but which would be more profitable to their goal;
showing that they cannot protect the nation.(renew)
or
showing that the nation cannot protect itself.(don''t renew)

if it is not renewed and a terrorist attack happens, they have a greater excuse to permanently take away even more of our rights.

Touch'e.

The Patriot Act is for people who are scared of their own shadow.

See, the problem with government is that while some people may be scared of their own shadow, I am not. Yet I am forced to pay for the security services and deal with the invasions of my privacy that people who are scared of their own shadow want.

I think all government programs should be voluntary.

If people want to participate in the Patriot Act's invasions of privacy and excessive spending, then they should have to opt in and be charged for it.

Originally posted by ProphetEzekiel

Here is my reasoning;
1; the Patriot Act was created following 9/11 to stop terrorism in the United States.
2; there have been no terrorist acts in America since it was enacted.

Some dude came into my office and started a fist fight with some other dude.

I didnt like that so I put this troll doll on my desk.

Hasnt happened since.

The bit about taking away the gov's free ticket has merit though. Even still they'd just blame it on the boogie man and say the PA didnt go far enough and hit us with even more tyranny.

reply to post by ProphetEzekiel


The Patriot Act is an assualt on the rights of Americans and should not be renewed.

Do you support torture because "Good Intel" was gained through it?

The United States cannot portray itself has the bastion of freedom and democracy while erroding the rights of it's citizens and lowering itself to torture. We are supposed to live by a higher standard and be a shining light to the world. Sometimes we will take casualties because of this - that is the price of our freedom.

I do not trust anyone who would sell out our freedom for security.

Originally posted by AP-Chris
reply to post by ProphetEzekiel

 

The Patriot Act is an assualt on the rights of Americans and should not be renewed.

Do you support torture because "Good Intel" was gained through it?

The United States cannot portray itself has the bastion of freedom and democracy while erroding the rights of it's citizens and lowering itself to torture. We are supposed to live by a higher standard and be a shining light to the world. Sometimes we will take casualties because of this - that is the price of our freedom.

I do not trust anyone who would sell out our freedom for security.

The point is that we're screwed. Don't renew it and the government WILL do something to make you want it. If you renew, then you appease the beast that is your government but that doesn't mean you're safe. Either way the governmental power has gotten way out of hand over the last few decades.

Government is control. Nothing more, really.

reply to post by mnemeth1
This is one of those speeches that will live on in history. Even with the Patriot Act not being renewed there is still the case of "probable cause", it is the most missused unjust two words ever in a law. You can be pickup thrown in jail and held indefinitely without charges filled against you just on "probable cause". I know people that were searched because there was a baby bag in the car, the officer said it was "probable cause" because people were known to hide drugs in their baby's diaper bag. They kicked in a lady's door not long ago, throw a tear gas canister in the room caugth the house on fire, and they did not even have a warrant, they said it was "probable cause" because it was the purps last known address. When all they had to do is knock on the door and asked if he lived there. So they also need to take the "probable cause" out. I don't think the founding fathers put that in there.

Hold on guys..

This was the temporary renewal of only 3 parts of the PA, which is a document the size of a large cities phone book.

Originally posted by coolottie
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

This is one of those speeches that will live on in history. Even with the Patriot Act not being renewed there is still the case of "probable cause", it is the most missused unjust two words ever in a law. You can be pickup thrown in jail and held indefinitely without charges filled against you just on "probable cause". I know people that were searched because there was a baby bag in the car, the officer said it was "probable cause" because people were known to hide drugs in their baby's diaper bag. They kicked in a lady's door not long ago, throw a tear gas canister in the room caugth the house on fire, and they did not even have a warrant, they said it was "probable cause" because it was the purps last known address. When all they had to do is knock on the door and asked if he lived there. So they also need to take the "probable cause" out. I don't think the founding fathers put that in there.

Well said !! When I have found myself in positions of being treated poorly,I have found the old Klingon proverb suited me "revenge is a dish best served cold" Take that for what you will...

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Hold on guys..

This was the temporary renewal of only 3 parts of the PA, which is a document the size of a large cities phone book.

Good point ! But you have to start somewhere. Keep pulling at the threads and soon the garment will unravel .

reply to post by mnemeth1


Well this is great, I do not agree with Ron or Rand Paul that much along with many Ron Paul supporters, but this is really good. I admit I did assume that these new tea party candidates would end up much the same as their republican counterparts but it appears they are taking a step in the right direction. Although there are many other things I believe rand paul is getting wrong such as his focus on strengthening government oversight on abortion, which I believe only expands government further.

reply to post by Rockpuck
And you can bet, Not one in Washington has read it. They never read the bills. You would not believe the things that slip into a bill to get something that has nothing to do with it passed. Like the resent Food Safety Bill. The Senator from Nabraska had in it that $1,000,000 should be collected every week until Sept 2013 put on the head of the capture of Osama bin Ladien. Now if $25,000,000 doesn't get him I don't know why this Senator thinks anymore will. Somebody is just rat holing a nest egg. The reason they can do that is they know he died of kidney failure years ago. They had a bill passed years ago in Mississippi title. "Right to Work Law" so everybody voted for it, but what the law stated was that and employer can fire anyone without just cause or explination, and you can not sue them for bodiely injury. Everyone that voted didn't read it, it just sounded good.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Well this is great, I do not agree with Ron or Rand Paul that much along with many Ron Paul supporters, but this is really good. I admit I did assume that these new tea party candidates would end up much the same as their republican counterparts but it appears they are taking a step in the right direction.

Although there are many other things I believe rand paul is getting wrong such as his focus on strengthening government oversight on abortion, which I believe only expands government further.

I believe he wants to deregulate actually.

www.randpaul2010.com...

I would strongly support legislation restricting federal courts from hearing cases like Roe v. Wade. Such legislation would only require a majority vote, making it more likely to pass than a pro-life constitutional amendment.

I would support legislation, a Sanctity of Life Amendment, establishing the principle that life begins at conception. This legislation would define life at conception in law, as a scientific statement.

He's a state's rights advocate, so he would move to eliminate federal controls and funding of abortions and leave it up to the individual states to regulate.

Certainly I think we can all agree that tax dollars should not be taken from pro-lifers at gun point and handed to abortion clinics.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Well this is great, I do not agree with Ron or Rand Paul that much along with many Ron Paul supporters, but this is really good. I admit I did assume that these new tea party candidates would end up much the same as their republican counterparts but it appears they are taking a step in the right direction.

Although there are many other things I believe rand paul is getting wrong such as his focus on strengthening government oversight on abortion, which I believe only expands government further.

SG the sad part is that true conservatives don't like government takeovers of any kind. True conservatives don't believe in an offensive use of the military and detest war. Conservatives and Liberals have much in common,when you get down to it.

reply to post by mnemeth1
Now abortion clinics, next everyone over 35, put to sleep like a dog. If you are disabled you go first. If you have never seen Logan's Run. Watch it. If they can convince you that killing a developed fetus is expendible well Grandmother is next, also the Mom. Why do you think they have distroyed the family bond in America.

I bet DHS is throwing a fit over the Patriot extensions being voted down in the house but I have heard there are 2 more bills for extending it.one for a few years the other permanently guess which one The Administration wants passed?

This is how it should go,

Scrap the current one and begin anew so that everything can be considered and not have a doc drawn up by a few non Govt people with absolute no total allegiance to the nation not be the ones dictaiting how our laws are concieved of in the first place as that will forever and continually have private corporate-geo-political inlfuence demanding and imposing its will and has occured time and time again.

A law similar is needed but not the one that currently exists as that is far to intrusive and makes Govt somewhat subject every person to a "Allegiance Test" of sorts as if you are going about your day to day routine all while not causing problems to anyone means you won't be targeted for intrusion as often as those who spend thier days making others lives hell as those get daily, if not hourly drop and peeks via electronical avenues.

Gov't authourity on this needs to be broad but as far as the nation and the people are concerned is that the stance is as follows :

If you are going about your day to day routine all while not causing problems to anyone means you won't be targeted for intrusion as often as those who spend thier days making others lives hell as those get daily, if not hourly drop and peeks via electronical avenues.

Common sense, logic needs to be the order of the day as without it we will continually make stupid and half brained desicions which lead to disorganization and choas as for if we don't do it right the first time then the next time we are gotten.