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Edit to add : In case you missed it before Mindspin - 4chan forum is not Anonymous and I'm still waiting for proof that Anonymous did what you say it did, because you seen it on wikipedia???
Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by YourPopRock
You kind of seem to pick and choose stories from your source to make Anonymous look bad.
Anonymous made themselves look bad by participating in the activities I posted. My thread is about why I don't see Anonymous as worthy of support.
If you are wanting a fanboy thread to support Anonymous...you can create your own.
Hal Turner raid
They don't agree with what he says (neither do I), so they silence him by shutting down his website. I don't agree with that method and so I will not support that action...no matter how nobel they thought they were being.
Would you support someone going an shooting Hal Turner because they don't agree with what he says? They would be taking action against him just like Anonymous did...vigilantism is something I don't support...no matter to what degree the action is.
Chris Forcand arrest
Yes, I have no problem with this one. I applaud the actions of whoever decided to CALL THE POLICE, instead of trying to take matters into their own hands.
Do you not see the difference in this action compared to the others? The did nothing ILLEGAL...they called the police like they were supposed to.
It's funny though...I would suspect that Anonymous is anti-police and authority...and yet they ran to them in this case.
2009 Iranian Election Protests
Again...nothing wrong with this. They created a website and protected it from being taken down. This is the type of action I could support if ALL their actions were like this. But they aren't...I can't support someone who would do this, and then turn around and shut down Visa and Paypal websites just because they decided they don't agree with them. Again...vigilantism...I don't support it.
Now if they would of created a bunch of websites to organize a boycott...I could support that. But they are deciding for ME in this case...what if I wanted to use the Visa website...what if my business depends on Paypal??? Why should Anonymous decided for ME whos services I can use or not use???
Operation Payback
All of Operation Payback I disagree with...buy your music and your movies...stop being cry babies about not being allowed to steal stuff.
Or grow a set...walk into a brick and mortar store and steal your music or dvd. They won't do that because they KNOW that is wrong...but it is the exact same thing they cry about.
Same with DDoS attacks...why don't they go to Visa's or Paypals headquarters and try to shut down the actual building??? They won't...because they know it is WRONG.
Again...Anonymous does not speak for ME...I did not give them authority to make decisions for ME...and when they go out and take down public websites...they are dictating which services I can and can not use.
And I will never support that.
It wouldn't fly in the real world...it shouldn't fly in the virtual world.
Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
Edit to add : In case you missed it before Mindspin - 4chan forum is not Anonymous and I'm still waiting for proof that Anonymous did what you say it did, because you seen it on wikipedia???
I love how you use the same source for the actions taken by Anonymous that you think are "good"...but discredit the "bad".
Here are articles talking about the same events...non-wikipedia. I know you will just ignore those as well and say "they can't PROVE it was Anonymous".
www.associatedcontent.com...
abcnews.go.com...
www.yalelawtech.org...
I can link articles all day...won't stop you from being willfully ignorant about it.
Please tell me kind sir what have you done to help this world
spewing critcal nonsense at a group whose intentions are in the right place and actually doing something about it.
If your against Anonymous thats ok but how about you step down from your sanctimonious perch, stop whinging and maybe actually do something to help then maybe I'll listen to your criticism!
Please link to where I used wikipedia for my sources please.......Liar!
And yes none of those articles have any proof that it was Anonymous!
How can you perpetuate this entire OPINION based on ZERO PROOF! Please forgive my ignorance!!! ahahahaha
Davenport Lyons, the law firm which pioneered the lucrative file-sharing pay-up-or-else scheme in the UK, will head off to Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal proceedings next year. According to details just made available, among other things Davenport Lyons partners were responsible for knowingly targeting the innocent and relied on unreliable evidence in doing so.
Having hacked HBGary's website, Anonymous explained that it was releasing Barr's findings on its own because the group was confident the company's conclusions were wrong. As you can see in the above screenshot of the hacked website, the group announced it had no leaders and was quite adamant that the information was nothing new or was simply bogus.
In December 2010, Anonymous took down websites belonging to MasterCard, PayPal, and Visa, because the payment processors declined to transfer money to WikiLeaks. Last month, the group shut down websites belonging to the Tunisian government and stock exchange in support of the uprising that forced the country's dictator, Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali, to flee. Earlier this month, the group hacked Egyptian and Yemen government websites for similar reasons: to show their support for promoting antigovernment protests that have roiled the Arab world.
I can't support ATS because of all the misinformation and hoaxes being promoted on the site. Sure, there are some good threads, but for every 1 good thread there are 20 that are just plain awful. I can't support ATS untill ALL the posts are good.
Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
Please link to where I used wikipedia for my sources please.......Liar!
You used my same link to point out the "good" Anonymous had done...that is using wikipedia as a source.
Other than that...you didn't provide any proof other than saying something like (paraphrasing) "everyone knows Anonymous did these things".
And yes none of those articles have any proof that it was Anonymous!
Yep...just like I said...saw it coming.
So let me guess...Anonymous was "framed" for all the negative things that they have ever been connected with right? They only do good...they are like superheroes and we should worship them???
You seem a bit brainwashed...or just looking for something to believe in.
How can you perpetuate this entire OPINION based on ZERO PROOF! Please forgive my ignorance!!! ahahahaha
Nothing will meet your standards of "proof" for these actions taken by Anonymous...you just want to bury your head...put your fingers in your ears...and scream "NO NO NO...ANONYMOUS DIDN'T DO THAT....NO NO NO".
Feel free to do so...I really don't care...it's your decision to make.
I have my opinion...it doesn't rest on you having to justify it....but it appears that it really upsets you that I don't agree with yours, and that I don't share your worship of Anonymous as a force of good.
That's something you have to work out yourself...I'm comfortable in my stance.
Anonymous on the other hand therefore, is not anchored in anyone true direction, it has no real Queen to direct the actions of the hive or swarm... It has few rules (although codes of conduct have been known to exist in strange manifestation).
You seem to think all anonymous members, (which is a deceiving non-term) are somehow exactly the same, with the same outlook and principle as each other. Whereas, the true face of anonymous is about somehow driving the chaos elsewhere.
So anonymous were highlighting (in a purile way) something. I'm not even defending it, but at least I can see it.
Anon... Are probably needed in this day and age, or over-enforces corporate bullying state of existence, in which corruption is rife and the innocent are getting taken for a painful ride.
Essentially, Anonymous is a collective rage against patronising, exploitative figures and company's. A seemingly chaotic, disordered, varying cloud of non-members. A manifestation born out of the squeezing system, consisting of anyone and everyone and nobody.
And it scares the system.
Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant, they exist.
Originally posted by kcfusion
reply to post by mr-lizard
Very well written post, wasted on Mindspin's deaf ears!
Mindspin is right!
Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
Please tell me kind sir what have you done to help this world
Have I claimed I have done anything? Have I ever claimed I cared to?
I take care of me and my own...I let others take care of themselves.
Highly commendable attribute you have there!
spewing critcal nonsense at a group whose intentions are in the right place and actually doing something about it.
Exactly what is the intentions of Anonymous? Freedom Fighters?
And what have they done to show you they are in the "right place"?
And the actions they are taking to do something about it...I don't agree with.
I have already explained why I support them but you continue to ignore that side of things as it conflicts with your opinion. And the actions they take on it...........please suggest how you would have done things differently oh wise one!
If your against Anonymous thats ok but how about you step down from your sanctimonious perch, stop whinging and maybe actually do something to help then maybe I'll listen to your criticism!
Oh...I see...I can't share my opinion about Anonymous and their actions unless they are in agreement with you...got it.
Like I stated above...I don't really care to do anything to help. And the actions taken by Anonymous do more harm than good. What better way to speed up internet censorship or open identification than have a group of morons taken down websites with DDoS attacks???
All the government needs is a justification...and Anonymous is supplying that to them freely.
Hahahha no your ignorance does not upset me it amazes me! Again Liar show me the link I used to wikipedia as my sources! There isn't one! Why would I need wikipedia to tell me about what happened to the Irish political party when it was all over our news and the evidence could be seen by going to the actual site they attacked?? You see I operate on proof, I can prove they attacked the site. Now where's your proof that they did what they did! Step up and stop giving the runaround and show me your proof!! Your comfortable with your stance based on something you cannot prove at all! I'm comfortable with my stance based on actual proof! I'm funny like that!
Very well written post, wasted on Mindspin's deaf ears!
Mindspin is right!
Which is the number one reason I don't support them...they don't self regulate. And that in my mind makes "them" irresponsible and dangerous.
I don't see where I have made any such claim. If I have, please provide the quote to me.
I am speaking of the group as a whole. I will say this about any "individual" that decides to become part of Anonymous...once you are part of them...you share blame/responsibility for ALL their actions...despite your personal beliefs.
Motive means nothing to me...because I don't agree with their methods or actions. Good intentions don't justify malicious activity.
This is starting to sound a lot like what governments use for justification. "It was for their own good"..."The ends justify the means"..."We are doing it to protect you".
I disagree...irresponisble actions like the ones commited by Anon will just lead to a tighter grip.
Like you said...they have no direction...all of us will pay for their careless actions. But as long as they get some "lulz" in the process...I guess it's justified...right?
I don't believe it does...it also helps to have some rabble. Like I said...they are freely providing justification for many things.
I am not questioning if they exist...I don't even care if others support them really. What got this thread started were suggestions that I should leave ATS for the simple fact that I don't support Anonymous.
Yes your words speak volumes about your character
as for the internet censorship been sped up by Anonymous actions, I'm sure they could railroad that censorship through just fine with a few false flags here and there no??
Anyway maybe censorship is something you would like, then you wouldn't have to deal with listening to these "kiddies"!
Also if you dont care about anyone only your own why create this thread?? You a confusing individual!
Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
Hahahha no your ignorance does not upset me it amazes me! Again Liar show me the link I used to wikipedia as my sources! There isn't one! Why would I need wikipedia to tell me about what happened to the Irish political party when it was all over our news and the evidence could be seen by going to the actual site they attacked?? You see I operate on proof, I can prove they attacked the site. Now where's your proof that they did what they did! Step up and stop giving the runaround and show me your proof!! Your comfortable with your stance based on something you cannot prove at all! I'm comfortable with my stance based on actual proof! I'm funny like that!
Nothing will satisfy you...I have given you articles...wikipedia has their own sources for the sections...but you will ignore it all because you don't want to believe it.
On the other hand...you have "proof" of the things they did that you see as good...because you will literally believe any source as long as it confirms your beliefs.
Just for the record...are you honestly saying that Anonymous has never done anything wrong???
Very well written post, wasted on Mindspin's deaf ears!
Mindspin is right!
What am I right about?
That it is my personal opinion that I choose not to support Anonymous...that I think they do more harm than good...and I that I don't support vigilantism???
is reference to your name Mindspin! which you are ... a mind spin!
Mindspin is right!
Or less controlable. It's something we're not used to. We have been collectively conditioned to accept order. Not chaos. It scares people.
But they're NOT a whole. They exist in pockets and clusters and occasionally merge.
And doing nothing at all.... what does that justify?
So what's your answer? How would you deal with it?
Well you know, and I know you don't have to go anywhere, it's a good thread, and I hope we can talk some more about it, just because we disagree doesn't mean we can't discuss it. We both may learn things.
Last but not least you don't support vigilantism against oppressive governments, corporations???
So for instance when the Iranian protest were happening it would have been better that Anonymous did not get involved and create a forum where the Iranian people could bypass the restrictions and censorship that their Government had imposed on them, so they could communicate to each other and the world what was going on??
So if your Government was sensoring freedom of speech and oppressing its people where it had a direct effect on you and your family, would you be anti web vigilante then?? I doubt it!
Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
Yes your words speak volumes about your character
As do yours, as do all of our words.
For example...I now know you are a "means justify the ends" type of guy...as long as the "ends" are soemthing you agree with.
as for the internet censorship been sped up by Anonymous actions, I'm sure they could railroad that censorship through just fine with a few false flags here and there no??
But now they don't have to, because Anonymous is serving it up to them on a platter.
Anyway maybe censorship is something you would like, then you wouldn't have to deal with listening to these "kiddies"!
Oh, I don't care listening to the crying "kiddies"...it's entertainment. I just don't support groups that would abuse an open system, which will then force regulation onto it.
We have been given a gift of the internet...but it is being screwed up by irresponsible actions by groups like Anonymous.
Also if you dont care about anyone only your own why create this thread?? You a confusing individual!
Why create this thread??? To share my opinion...to have a discussion...to hear others opinions. But it is all for purely selfish reasons really...I don't really care if anyone else gets anything out of this. It is entertaining for me (because I enjoy discussions) and it occupies some free time I have. Do you not see the value in that?
And confusing? Perhaps.