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What has 'Anonymous' done that is worthy of support???

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posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by kcfusion
 



Edit to add : In case you missed it before Mindspin - 4chan forum is not Anonymous and I'm still waiting for proof that Anonymous did what you say it did, because you seen it on wikipedia???


I love how you use the same source for the actions taken by Anonymous that you think are "good"...but discredit the "bad".

Here are articles talking about the same events...non-wikipedia. I know you will just ignore those as well and say "they can't PROVE it was Anonymous".

www.associatedcontent.com...

abcnews.go.com...

www.yalelawtech.org...


I can link articles all day...won't stop you from being willfully ignorant about it.




posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by YourPopRock
 



You kind of seem to pick and choose stories from your source to make Anonymous look bad.


Anonymous made themselves look bad by participating in the activities I posted. My thread is about why I don't see Anonymous as worthy of support.

If you are wanting a fanboy thread to support Anonymous...you can create your own.



Hal Turner raid


They don't agree with what he says (neither do I), so they silence him by shutting down his website. I don't agree with that method and so I will not support that action...no matter how nobel they thought they were being.

Would you support someone going an shooting Hal Turner because they don't agree with what he says? They would be taking action against him just like Anonymous did...vigilantism is something I don't support...no matter to what degree the action is.


Chris Forcand arrest


Yes, I have no problem with this one. I applaud the actions of whoever decided to CALL THE POLICE, instead of trying to take matters into their own hands.

Do you not see the difference in this action compared to the others? The did nothing ILLEGAL...they called the police like they were supposed to.

It's funny though...I would suspect that Anonymous is anti-police and authority...and yet they ran to them in this case.


2009 Iranian Election Protests


Again...nothing wrong with this. They created a website and protected it from being taken down. This is the type of action I could support if ALL their actions were like this. But they aren't...I can't support someone who would do this, and then turn around and shut down Visa and Paypal websites just because they decided they don't agree with them. Again...vigilantism...I don't support it.

Now if they would of created a bunch of websites to organize a boycott...I could support that. But they are deciding for ME in this case...what if I wanted to use the Visa website...what if my business depends on Paypal??? Why should Anonymous decided for ME whos services I can use or not use???



Operation Payback


All of Operation Payback I disagree with...buy your music and your movies...stop being cry babies about not being allowed to steal stuff.

Or grow a set...walk into a brick and mortar store and steal your music or dvd. They won't do that because they KNOW that is wrong...but it is the exact same thing they cry about.

Same with DDoS attacks...why don't they go to Visa's or Paypals headquarters and try to shut down the actual building??? They won't...because they know it is WRONG.



Again...Anonymous does not speak for ME...I did not give them authority to make decisions for ME...and when they go out and take down public websites...they are dictating which services I can and can not use.

And I will never support that.

It wouldn't fly in the real world...it shouldn't fly in the virtual world.


Please tell me kind sir what have you done to help this world, other than sit behind your computer spewing critcal nonsense at a group whose intentions are in the right place and actually doing something about it. The answer is nothing!! If your against Anonymous thats ok but how about you step down from your sanctimonious perch, stop whinging and maybe actually do something to help then maybe I'll listen to your criticism!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
 



Edit to add : In case you missed it before Mindspin - 4chan forum is not Anonymous and I'm still waiting for proof that Anonymous did what you say it did, because you seen it on wikipedia???


I love how you use the same source for the actions taken by Anonymous that you think are "good"...but discredit the "bad".

Here are articles talking about the same events...non-wikipedia. I know you will just ignore those as well and say "they can't PROVE it was Anonymous".

www.associatedcontent.com...

abcnews.go.com...

www.yalelawtech.org...


I can link articles all day...won't stop you from being willfully ignorant about it.


Please link to where I used wikipedia for my sources please.......Liar!

And yes none of those articles have any proof that it was Anonymous! How can you perpetuate this entire OPINION based on ZERO PROOF! Please forgive my ignorance!!! ahahahaha



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by kcfusion
 



Please tell me kind sir what have you done to help this world


Have I claimed I have done anything? Have I ever claimed I cared to?

I take care of me and my own...I let others take care of themselves.


spewing critcal nonsense at a group whose intentions are in the right place and actually doing something about it.


Exactly what is the intentions of Anonymous? Freedom Fighters?


And what have they done to show you they are in the "right place"?



And the actions they are taking to do something about it...I don't agree with.


If your against Anonymous thats ok but how about you step down from your sanctimonious perch, stop whinging and maybe actually do something to help then maybe I'll listen to your criticism!


Oh...I see...I can't share my opinion about Anonymous and their actions unless they are in agreement with you...got it.


Like I stated above...I don't really care to do anything to help. And the actions taken by Anonymous do more harm than good. What better way to speed up internet censorship or open identification than have a group of morons taken down websites with DDoS attacks???

All the government needs is a justification...and Anonymous is supplying that to them freely.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by kcfusion
 



Please link to where I used wikipedia for my sources please.......Liar!


You used my same link to point out the "good" Anonymous had done...that is using wikipedia as a source.

Other than that...you didn't provide any proof other than saying something like (paraphrasing) "everyone knows Anonymous did these things".


And yes none of those articles have any proof that it was Anonymous!


Yep...just like I said...saw it coming.

So let me guess...Anonymous was "framed" for all the negative things that they have ever been connected with right? They only do good...they are like superheroes and we should worship them???

You seem a bit brainwashed...or just looking for something to believe in.


How can you perpetuate this entire OPINION based on ZERO PROOF! Please forgive my ignorance!!! ahahahaha


Nothing will meet your standards of "proof" for these actions taken by Anonymous...you just want to bury your head...put your fingers in your ears...and scream "NO NO NO...ANONYMOUS DIDN'T DO THAT....NO NO NO".

Feel free to do so...I really don't care...it's your decision to make.

I have my opinion...it doesn't rest on you having to justify it....but it appears that it really upsets you that I don't agree with yours, and that I don't share your worship of Anonymous as a force of good.

That's something you have to work out yourself...I'm comfortable in my stance.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Your analysis of Anonymous is based on fallacious reasoning.

Tell me if you see what is wrong with this statement:

I can't support ATS because of all the misinformation and hoaxes being promoted on the site. Sure, there are some good threads, but for every 1 good thread there are 20 that are just plain awful. I can't support ATS untill ALL the posts are good.

My point is that Anonymous is an anarchistic group, and you should judge their actions on an individual basis.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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HI OP.

First of all... Anonymous is a collective entity of sorts, with hundreds of thousand individuals (each of whom have their own independent outlooks on life, the universe and morality). Like you and I, we share a common goal of searching for the truth, or we wouldn't be on ATS.

But I bet we don't have the same sense of taste, ambition, morals, ethics or outlook as each other, we may have different social class, or up-bringing, or religion or attitude, or taste in music.... But ATS is governed by rules, in which debate is encouraged to avoid falling into traps of personal discourse.

Anonymous on the other hand therefore, is not anchored in anyone true direction, it has no real Queen to direct the actions of the hive or swarm... It has few rules (although codes of conduct have been known to exist in strange manifestation).

You seem to think all anonymous members, (which is a deceiving non-term) are somehow exactly the same, with the same outlook and principle as each other. Whereas, the true face of anonymous is about somehow driving the chaos elsewhere.

There ARE things done by anonymous that I don't agree with, but even the worst are not done randomly, despite what the media may have us believe. Behind each and every counter-attack, there's a reason.

The cussing and youtube porns attacks had motive, no matter how distasteful, a message highlighting two things....

1) Why would parents allow their children to use an adults tool unsupervised. I'm assuming you've been on the internet long enough to realise, one wrong click can land you in a perverse, virus ridden jungle of depravity?

So I don't need to say, that a child has potential access to anything on the internet anyway.....

2) Censorship. In this day and age, it's easier to silence and whitewash your problems away, easier than maturely discussing them and dealing with them. In the above case, it's easier for someone to set the ball rolling... The giant ball of censorship, simply because of lazy parenting.

So anonymous were highlighting (in a purile way) something. I'm not even defending it, but at least I can see it.

Now... More importantly.

Anon... Are probably needed in this day and age, or over-enforces corporate bullying state of existence, in which corruption is rife and the innocent are getting taken for a painful ride.

No matter your opinion on Wikileaks or Anon, you must admit that you are aware that because of the legal grey areas of downloading, copyright, and data transfer as well as data protection, then surely you're aware that very legal companies are exploiting the masses, who have little or no understanding of the pit falls of such areas.

Anonymous have counter-attacked.

torrentfreak.com...


Davenport Lyons, the law firm which pioneered the lucrative file-sharing pay-up-or-else scheme in the UK, will head off to Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal proceedings next year. According to details just made available, among other things Davenport Lyons partners were responsible for knowingly targeting the innocent and relied on unreliable evidence in doing so.


and again

www.techspot.com...


Having hacked HBGary's website, Anonymous explained that it was releasing Barr's findings on its own because the group was confident the company's conclusions were wrong. As you can see in the above screenshot of the hacked website, the group announced it had no leaders and was quite adamant that the information was nothing new or was simply bogus.

In December 2010, Anonymous took down websites belonging to MasterCard, PayPal, and Visa, because the payment processors declined to transfer money to WikiLeaks. Last month, the group shut down websites belonging to the Tunisian government and stock exchange in support of the uprising that forced the country's dictator, Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali, to flee. Earlier this month, the group hacked Egyptian and Yemen government websites for similar reasons: to show their support for promoting antigovernment protests that have roiled the Arab world.


--

Essentially, Anonymous is a collective rage against patronising, exploitative figures and company's. A seemingly chaotic, disordered, varying cloud of non-members. A manifestation born out of the squeezing system, consisting of anyone and everyone and nobody.

And it scares the system.

Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant, they exist.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed
 



I can't support ATS because of all the misinformation and hoaxes being promoted on the site. Sure, there are some good threads, but for every 1 good thread there are 20 that are just plain awful. I can't support ATS untill ALL the posts are good.


What actions is ATS taking?

It is the actions that I don't agree with...as a group...they have used methods that I do not agree with.

Since we only have the ability to judge them as a group...and they don't self-regulate their "membership"...then it is perfectly logical for me to say I don't support them because of the past "bad" actions they commit.

Your analogy isn't very comparable. It would be better if you used a news site...or someone who pretends to be a news site...like A L L N E W S W E B or Sorcha Faal. I don't "support" either of them...because of ALL the hoax material they put out...I'm sure they might have gotten a thing or two right in the past...because they mix "real" news in with their hoaxes. But I don't trust them...I don't trust anything they have their name attached to...because of their past "bad" actions.

That is a better analogy. ATS isn't publicly trying to push any hoax thread. Now if they started taking legit threads and HOAXING them just because they personally don't believe in them...then despite all the "good" I see in ATS...I would probably stop coming here because I would then not agree with their ACTIONS. But in your analogy...ATS is not taking any ACTION.

Got that?



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
 



Please link to where I used wikipedia for my sources please.......Liar!


You used my same link to point out the "good" Anonymous had done...that is using wikipedia as a source.

Other than that...you didn't provide any proof other than saying something like (paraphrasing) "everyone knows Anonymous did these things".


And yes none of those articles have any proof that it was Anonymous!


Yep...just like I said...saw it coming.

So let me guess...Anonymous was "framed" for all the negative things that they have ever been connected with right? They only do good...they are like superheroes and we should worship them???

You seem a bit brainwashed...or just looking for something to believe in.


How can you perpetuate this entire OPINION based on ZERO PROOF! Please forgive my ignorance!!! ahahahaha


Nothing will meet your standards of "proof" for these actions taken by Anonymous...you just want to bury your head...put your fingers in your ears...and scream "NO NO NO...ANONYMOUS DIDN'T DO THAT....NO NO NO".

Feel free to do so...I really don't care...it's your decision to make.

I have my opinion...it doesn't rest on you having to justify it....but it appears that it really upsets you that I don't agree with yours, and that I don't share your worship of Anonymous as a force of good.

That's something you have to work out yourself...I'm comfortable in my stance.


Hahahha no your ignorance does not upset me it amazes me! Again Liar show me the link I used to wikipedia as my sources! There isn't one! Why would I need wikipedia to tell me about what happened to the Irish political party when it was all over our news and the evidence could be seen by going to the actual site they attacked?? You see I operate on proof, I can prove they attacked the site. Now where's your proof that they did what they did! Step up and stop giving the runaround and show me your proof!! Your comfortable with your stance based on something you cannot prove at all! I'm comfortable with my stance based on actual proof! I'm funny like that!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


Very well written post, wasted on Mindspin's deaf ears!

Mindspin is right!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 



Anonymous on the other hand therefore, is not anchored in anyone true direction, it has no real Queen to direct the actions of the hive or swarm... It has few rules (although codes of conduct have been known to exist in strange manifestation).


Which is the number one reason I don't support them...they don't self regulate. And that in my mind makes "them" irresponsible and dangerous.


You seem to think all anonymous members, (which is a deceiving non-term) are somehow exactly the same, with the same outlook and principle as each other. Whereas, the true face of anonymous is about somehow driving the chaos elsewhere.


I don't see where I have made any such claim. If I have, please provide the quote to me. I am speaking of the group as a whole. I will say this about any "individual" that decides to become part of Anonymous...once you are part of them...you share blame/responsibility for ALL their actions...despite your personal beliefs.


So anonymous were highlighting (in a purile way) something. I'm not even defending it, but at least I can see it.


Motive means nothing to me...because I don't agree with their methods or actions. Good intentions don't justify malicious activity.

This is starting to sound a lot like what governments use for justification. "It was for their own good"..."The ends justify the means"..."We are doing it to protect you".


Anon... Are probably needed in this day and age, or over-enforces corporate bullying state of existence, in which corruption is rife and the innocent are getting taken for a painful ride.


I disagree...irresponisble actions like the ones commited by Anon will just lead to a tighter grip.

Like you said...they have no direction...all of us will pay for their careless actions. But as long as they get some "lulz" in the process...I guess it's justified...right?



Essentially, Anonymous is a collective rage against patronising, exploitative figures and company's. A seemingly chaotic, disordered, varying cloud of non-members. A manifestation born out of the squeezing system, consisting of anyone and everyone and nobody.


Which is why I don't support them.


And it scares the system.


I don't believe it does...it also helps to have some rabble. Like I said...they are freely providing justification for many things.


Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant, they exist.


I am not questioning if they exist...I don't even care if others support them really. What got this thread started were suggestions that I should leave ATS for the simple fact that I don't support Anonymous.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by kcfusion
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


Very well written post, wasted on Mindspin's deaf ears!

Mindspin is right!


Well i'm not going to argue.

The Op is entitled to think what he wants, there's no rule to suggest that any ATS member should or shouldn't support Anon. Such is the glory of the internet.




posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
 



Please tell me kind sir what have you done to help this world



Have I claimed I have done anything? Have I ever claimed I cared to?

I take care of me and my own...I let others take care of themselves.


Highly commendable attribute you have there!


spewing critcal nonsense at a group whose intentions are in the right place and actually doing something about it.



Exactly what is the intentions of Anonymous? Freedom Fighters?


And what have they done to show you they are in the "right place"?

And the actions they are taking to do something about it...I don't agree with.


I have already explained why I support them but you continue to ignore that side of things as it conflicts with your opinion. And the actions they take on it...........please suggest how you would have done things differently oh wise one!


If your against Anonymous thats ok but how about you step down from your sanctimonious perch, stop whinging and maybe actually do something to help then maybe I'll listen to your criticism!



Oh...I see...I can't share my opinion about Anonymous and their actions unless they are in agreement with you...got it.


Like I stated above...I don't really care to do anything to help. And the actions taken by Anonymous do more harm than good. What better way to speed up internet censorship or open identification than have a group of morons taken down websites with DDoS attacks???

All the government needs is a justification...and Anonymous is supplying that to them freely.


Yes your words speak volumes about your character, and as for the internet censorship been sped up by Anonymous actions, I'm sure they could railroad that censorship through just fine with a few false flags here and there no?? Anyway maybe censorship is something you would like, then you wouldn't have to deal with listening to these "kiddies"! Also if you dont care about anyone only your own why create this thread?? You a confusing individual!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by kcfusion
 



Hahahha no your ignorance does not upset me it amazes me! Again Liar show me the link I used to wikipedia as my sources! There isn't one! Why would I need wikipedia to tell me about what happened to the Irish political party when it was all over our news and the evidence could be seen by going to the actual site they attacked?? You see I operate on proof, I can prove they attacked the site. Now where's your proof that they did what they did! Step up and stop giving the runaround and show me your proof!! Your comfortable with your stance based on something you cannot prove at all! I'm comfortable with my stance based on actual proof! I'm funny like that!


Nothing will satisfy you...I have given you articles...wikipedia has their own sources for the sections...but you will ignore it all because you don't want to believe it.

On the other hand...you have "proof" of the things they did that you see as good...because you will literally believe any source as long as it confirms your beliefs.

Just for the record...are you honestly saying that Anonymous has never done anything wrong???


Very well written post, wasted on Mindspin's deaf ears!

Mindspin is right!


What am I right about?

That it is my personal opinion that I choose not to support Anonymous...that I think they do more harm than good...and I that I don't support vigilantism???



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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Which is the number one reason I don't support them...they don't self regulate. And that in my mind makes "them" irresponsible and dangerous.


Or less controlable. It's something we're not used to. We have been collectively conditioned to accept order. Not chaos. It scares people.



I don't see where I have made any such claim. If I have, please provide the quote to me.


That was the impression I got for what I read.



I am speaking of the group as a whole. I will say this about any "individual" that decides to become part of Anonymous...once you are part of them...you share blame/responsibility for ALL their actions...despite your personal beliefs.


But they're NOT a whole. They exist in pockets and clusters and occasionally merge.



Motive means nothing to me...because I don't agree with their methods or actions. Good intentions don't justify malicious activity.


And doing nothing at all.... what does that justify?



This is starting to sound a lot like what governments use for justification. "It was for their own good"..."The ends justify the means"..."We are doing it to protect you".





I disagree...irresponisble actions like the ones commited by Anon will just lead to a tighter grip.


No... They have been trying to get a tighter grip for years.



Like you said...they have no direction...all of us will pay for their careless actions. But as long as they get some "lulz" in the process...I guess it's justified...right?


So what's your answer? How would you deal with it?



I don't believe it does...it also helps to have some rabble. Like I said...they are freely providing justification for many things.


Like erm.... The government? The authorities? The bankers? The lenders?



I am not questioning if they exist...I don't even care if others support them really. What got this thread started were suggestions that I should leave ATS for the simple fact that I don't support Anonymous.


Well you know, and I know you don't have to go anywhere, it's a good thread, and I hope we can talk some more about it, just because we disagree doesn't mean we can't discuss it. We both may learn things.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by kcfusion
 



Yes your words speak volumes about your character


As do yours, as do all of our words.

For example...I now know you are a "means justify the ends" type of guy...as long as the "ends" are soemthing you agree with.


as for the internet censorship been sped up by Anonymous actions, I'm sure they could railroad that censorship through just fine with a few false flags here and there no??


But now they don't have to, because Anonymous is serving it up to them on a platter.


Anyway maybe censorship is something you would like, then you wouldn't have to deal with listening to these "kiddies"!


Oh, I don't care listening to the crying "kiddies"...it's entertainment. I just don't support groups that would abuse an open system, which will then force regulation onto it.

We have been given a gift of the internet...but it is being screwed up by irresponsible actions by groups like Anonymous.


Also if you dont care about anyone only your own why create this thread?? You a confusing individual!


Why create this thread??? To share my opinion...to have a discussion...to hear others opinions. But it is all for purely selfish reasons really...I don't really care if anyone else gets anything out of this. It is entertaining for me (because I enjoy discussions) and it occupies some free time I have. Do you not see the value in that?

And confusing? Perhaps.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
 



Hahahha no your ignorance does not upset me it amazes me! Again Liar show me the link I used to wikipedia as my sources! There isn't one! Why would I need wikipedia to tell me about what happened to the Irish political party when it was all over our news and the evidence could be seen by going to the actual site they attacked?? You see I operate on proof, I can prove they attacked the site. Now where's your proof that they did what they did! Step up and stop giving the runaround and show me your proof!! Your comfortable with your stance based on something you cannot prove at all! I'm comfortable with my stance based on actual proof! I'm funny like that!


Nothing will satisfy you...I have given you articles...wikipedia has their own sources for the sections...but you will ignore it all because you don't want to believe it.

On the other hand...you have "proof" of the things they did that you see as good...because you will literally believe any source as long as it confirms your beliefs.

Just for the record...are you honestly saying that Anonymous has never done anything wrong???


Very well written post, wasted on Mindspin's deaf ears!

Mindspin is right!


What am I right about?

That it is my personal opinion that I choose not to support Anonymous...that I think they do more harm than good...and I that I don't support vigilantism???




Mindspin is right!
is reference to your name Mindspin! which you are ... a mind spin!

I am not saying they have not done anything wrong but that I have not seen any PROOF to suggest they have!

My god I'll believe any source will I? ....what sources have I provided you? None! And this from you, who posts articles which amount to nothing more than hearsay which you take as proof and form your entire opinion on them! It would be funny if it wasn't so sad! Ok lets take one of my sources, the actual Irish Political site that Anonymous attacked, which was seen by hundreds of thousands of Irish people, on the main news, on the actual site that was attacked, this is not a reliable source????????

Last but not least you don't support vigilantism against oppressive governments, corporations??? So for instance when the Iranian protest were happening it would have been better that Anonymous did not get involved and create a forum where the Iranian people could bypass the restrictions and censorship that their Government had imposed on them, so they could communicate to each other and the world what was going on?? It would have been better I suppose because at least you would not have to hear the truth about it then, only what is fed to you through the mainstream media! Is that what your getting at here? So if your Government was sensoring freedom of speech and oppressing its people where it had a direct effect on you and your family, would you be anti web vigilante then?? I doubt it!
edit on 10-2-2011 by kcfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 



Or less controlable. It's something we're not used to. We have been collectively conditioned to accept order. Not chaos. It scares people.


Call me cynical...but I believe control is needed. With no control at all...it just makes it easier for people to manipulate and exploit. Anarchy doesn't work...because you would need laws to enforce it.


But they're NOT a whole. They exist in pockets and clusters and occasionally merge.


It doesn't matter...if you associate with a group...you associate with the good and the bad that group has to offer. It is the same as any other group...just because they aren't physically all in the same location doesn't make it any different.


And doing nothing at all.... what does that justify?


They don't have to do nothing at all...I said earlier in the thread some of their actions that I agree with. I don't agree with DDoS attacks, flooding porn on sites, or using an individuals personal information, putting it all over the internet and harrassing people.

You can't fight criminals by becoming criminal yourself (you can...but are then no better than they are).
You can't fight immortality if you have to become immoral to do it.
You can fight against someone being unethical by taking an unethical action against them.
And you can't fight supression of free speech by silencing others.

All of the above, Anonymous has taken part in...and I can't support them for doing it...no matter how "good" their intentions are.


So what's your answer? How would you deal with it?


I don't really have a solution...I don't really see some of the things they "fight" against as problems.

I don't think Visa or Paypal should be punished for abiding by a government order.

I don't think a kid should be harrassed because his parents are helping him create a website.

I don't think YouTube should be flooded with porn titled as kid friendly videos "just to prove a point".

I don't think a website should be taken down simply because you don't agree with what the site or the owner says.



Well you know, and I know you don't have to go anywhere, it's a good thread, and I hope we can talk some more about it, just because we disagree doesn't mean we can't discuss it. We both may learn things.


Agreed...that is the point of threads...right?



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by kcfusion
 



Last but not least you don't support vigilantism against oppressive governments, corporations???


No I don't...not if it means harming others in the process...and that only applies to oppressive governments.

Peoples anger towards corporations is irrational IMO.

Anonymous's attacks against Visa and Paypal were misplaced. Visa and Paypal had to comply with a government order...if Anonymous didn't like the government order...they should of taken it up with them. But they are not strong enough or brave enough to try that...so they took it out on those that had to comply with the order.


So for instance when the Iranian protest were happening it would have been better that Anonymous did not get involved and create a forum where the Iranian people could bypass the restrictions and censorship that their Government had imposed on them, so they could communicate to each other and the world what was going on??


I already stated I supported that action.

It didn't attack anyone else...it was a helpful action...not a harmful action.



So if your Government was sensoring freedom of speech and oppressing its people where it had a direct effect on you and your family, would you be anti web vigilante then?? I doubt it!


Besides the Iranian example...non of Anonymous's actions have anything to do with what you just stated. Even the Irish example...it was a political party...not the government.

And like I said...I will take care of me and my own.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion
 



Yes your words speak volumes about your character


As do yours, as do all of our words.

For example...I now know you are a "means justify the ends" type of guy...as long as the "ends" are soemthing you agree with.


as for the internet censorship been sped up by Anonymous actions, I'm sure they could railroad that censorship through just fine with a few false flags here and there no??


But now they don't have to, because Anonymous is serving it up to them on a platter.


Anyway maybe censorship is something you would like, then you wouldn't have to deal with listening to these "kiddies"!


Oh, I don't care listening to the crying "kiddies"...it's entertainment. I just don't support groups that would abuse an open system, which will then force regulation onto it.

We have been given a gift of the internet...but it is being screwed up by irresponsible actions by groups like Anonymous.


Also if you dont care about anyone only your own why create this thread?? You a confusing individual!


Why create this thread??? To share my opinion...to have a discussion...to hear others opinions. But it is all for purely selfish reasons really...I don't really care if anyone else gets anything out of this. It is entertaining for me (because I enjoy discussions) and it occupies some free time I have. Do you not see the value in that?

And confusing? Perhaps.



Its like this your getting nowhere with your spin on the bad things Anonymous have done but which you cannot prove so now you saying they are going to be the cause of Internet Censorship because you think you'll have more success. Maybe you should start a new thread on that! Its like this Anonymous or no anonymous the PTB will try to Censor the Internet simply as that! But why stop at Anonymous, what about wikileaks thats another reason to censor the net right? ATS could be another reason if you want to go down that route as well. Actually anything that could be a thorn in the side for the successfulness of agenda's at play would be a reason to censor the net? Right?? See where I'm going here.................




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