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What has 'Anonymous' done that is worthy of support???

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posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Recently it has been suggested to me by another member that I should leave the ATS community for my lack of support of Anonymous.

I have a simple question...why should Anonymous have our support?

Some on here paint Anonymous as a freedom fighting group...out to protect the rights of indivduals and bring openness to the world.

I don't see it that way. I see them as a enemy of free speech...after all if someone says something they don't like...they try to hack them.

For example...Gene Simmons:

Gene Simmons Attack

Make sure your brand is protected… Make sure there are no incursions. Be litigious. Sue everybody. Take their homes, their cars. Don't let anybody cross that line.


In response to this statment...Anonymous DDoS attacked his website. Why? Does Gene Simmons not have the right to his own opinion? Did his statement prevent anyone from expressing their own opinion?

But in response...Anonymouse shuts down Gene Simmons website...his "voice" to the internet. Why is taking away someones voice on the internet something worthy of praise?

If you don't like what he said...don't listen to him...don't purchase anything he sells...create your own website to protest his actions...but don't attack his website...that only proves that you are trying to silence him...to try to remove his ability to communicate. Does that sound like a group that are freedom fighters?


Or how about the the kid that started the "No Cussing Club" website. For what reason did this cause Anonymous to obtain this kids personal information...leak it on the web...and harrass him?

No Cussing Club Attack

In January 2009 members of Anonymous targeted California teen McKay Hatch who runs the No Cussing Club, a website against profanity.[58][59] As Hatch's home address, phone number, and other personal information were leaked on-line, his family has received a lot of hate mail, lots of obscene phone calls, and even bogus pizza and pornography deliveries


WHY? Why should a group that does something like this deserve our support?

What is the point behind an action like this (I know...it's for the lulz)...but why would anyone support a group that does something like this just for kicks? Again...does this sound like a nobel freedom fighting group to anyone?


One more example...and this is the one that really just confuses me as to why anyone would support a group that does something like this.

YouTube Porn Day

On May 20, 2009, members of Anonymous uploaded numerous pornographic videos onto YouTube.[61] Many of these videos were disguised as children's videos or family friendly videos with tags such as "Jonas brothers."[61] YouTube has since removed all videos uploaded. The BBC contacted one of the uploaders who stated that it was a "4chan raid" organized due to the removal of music videos from YouTube.[62] BBC News reported that one victim posted a comment saying: "I'm 12 years old and what is this?"[62] which went on to become an internet meme.


So they put porn videos on YouTube...and trick kids into watching them by putting misleading titles on them. Again I ask...WHY would anyone support a group that does things like this?

What does this prove? What message are they trying to get across? And why would anyone think this is something that is worthy of support?



I would really like to hear anyones justification for any of the above actions.

Or justify any DDoS attacks in general. To me...a DDoS attack says "We don't like your opinions or what you are saying...so we are going to shut you down.". This is what they did to Egypts governments public website...how is this any different than the Egyptian government shutting down the internet? How do you say you are against something when you are doing the EXACT same thing to fight against it???

Again...it is like Anonymous saying: "We don't like your opinions, actions or what you are saying...so we are going to shut you down."

That doesn't sound like "freedom fighters" to me...that sounds like Tyrants. So why should we support tyrants?




posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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in a time of internet kill switches ....wouldnt it be wise to have hackers on your side ? who might be able to open underground networks in the event of a kill switch black out ?


These are some elite hackers who know what there doing . If you don't care about anything else they do the least you can do is use them as a tool.


They are still a young group of "activits" . But they really put the active in activits with there actions wouldnt you agree?

vs what we do here ? critizie on a messege board ?

you might not like what they do or what thye have done now ... but in the future i believe they will be a very good tool to have .


If nothing support them for there anti -totaliraian views.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 



in a time of internet kill switches ....wouldnt it be wise to have hackers on your side ? who might be able to open underground networks in the event of a kill switch black out ?


What are DDoS scripts going to do for you in the event of a kill switch? Because for the majority of Anon...that is all they know. I'm not really paranoid about an internet kill switch anyway...and if it did happen...getting on the net would be one thing...finding any site that is still working would be another.


If nothing support them for there anti -totaliraian views.


How do you support a group for there anti-totalitarian views when they use totalitarian tactics themselves?



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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I'm not an expert on the history, but I think in the beginning, Anonymous was what more would agree overall of as "good". Now perhaps it a bit of a mix, its changed since the start.
edit on 10-2-2011 by ghaleon12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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They stand against greed and abuses of power. Not to mention, they stand against NOT being a complete douche.

Thats enough for me.

MOTF!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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I agree with the OP. Anonymous may be doing some good things, and people on ATS will jump on the bandwagon faster than the speed of light (instead of being wary and looking at both sides), but Anonymous also has the power to be corrupt and to be out of control, which the OP has given examples of.

Seedofchucky mentioned that we'd rather have hackers on our side, and that's true but it does not mean that some of the hackers allied with Anonymous won't dictate according to what THEY believe is right, not what the people believe is right.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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You know what is sad?

I have gotten a few U2Us already saying they agree with me...but don't want to reply to the thread because they "FEAR" talking bad about Anonymous.

How can anyone support a group where people don't even want to say anything against them due to FEAR of some sort of retaliation???



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by MessOnTheFED!
 



They stand against greed and abuses of power. Not to mention, they stand against NOT being a complete douche.



Do they not abuse their own "power"???


And I think it is kind of douchey to flood YouTube with porn and label it as a kids video...or get a hold of someones personal information and plaster it all over the web and direct people to harrass that person.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
You know what is sad?

I have gotten a few U2Us already saying they agree with me...but don't want to reply to the thread because they "FEAR" talking bad about Anonymous.

How can anyone support a group where people don't even want to say anything against them due to FEAR of some sort of retaliation???


Looks like Pot and Kettle got a lot of splanin' to do!

MOTF!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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Well, by the very way they define themselves, they have no definition, as they are made up of so many people, with no common purpose, and as a result, they have a variety of agendas. To say "anonymous is good", or try and speculate as to what anonymous stands for, seems a bit wishful, or niave to me. There will be groups within the groups- no doubt some of them will be good, however, some of them will just be immature children wanting to get a kick.

You can't describe anonymous the group as anything, they are a combination of things, and many of which will be polar opposites. It does perplex me a bit when people try and paint the group as freedom fighters, or heroes, because though they will have people within them you could perhaps describe in that way, there will be many others you can't, and it just seems like a massive one-sided generalisation.
edit on 10-2-2011 by ScepticalBeliever because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by MessOnTheFED!
 



They stand against greed and abuses of power. Not to mention, they stand against NOT being a complete douche.



Do they not abuse their own "power"???


And I think it is kind of douchey to flood YouTube with porn and label it as a kids video...or get a hold of someones personal information and plaster it all over the web and direct people to harrass that person.


The Youtube thing i can agree with.

As to the other. I guess it would depend on what said person did.

MOTF!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by MindSpin
 


I call BS on you getting U2U messages supporting your thread yet being afraid to post here.

Looking at your entire history of posts, you seem to harbor some sort of grudge against Anon... why is that? You mad?



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by YourPopRock
 



I call BS on you getting U2U messages supporting your thread yet being afraid to post here.


You can think what you want...I only have my word on the matter...I can't provide proof.


Looking at your entire history of posts, you seem to harbor some sort of grudge against Anon... why is that? You mad?


Really? I didn't think I spent that much time talking about Anon besides a few posts before this.

I'm not mad at all...I just don't think they are a force for good...and I don't support their actions.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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To the members who are to afraid to talk about something on a Thread and they have to resort to U2U to speak there mind your are on the wrong website cowards


"What are DDoS scripts going to do for you in the event of a kill switch? Because for the majority of Anon...that is all they know. I'm not really paranoid about an internet kill switch anyway...and if it did happen...getting on the net would be one thing...finding any site that is still working would be another."


DDoS scripts are most likly part of there aresonal . You have no clue what they know , what they are capable of , nor what they can do after an internet kill swittch. But your bashing of them won't do nothing more then add disinfo and seperate people more .

You don't know the majoirty of Anon and neither do we . Thats why they are anon. I wouldnt be surprised if they were working on there own version of servers to use as a internet gateway in the event of internet kill switch 1.0 ...2.0 could probably b e up and running lwith special ways to get on . Numerous possibilities....


but thus far they have shown me no reason for me not to support them.


unless u know something we don't

edit on 10-2-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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You know, I'll post here.

I've seen people targeted by Anon in instance where the receiving party was entirely innocent of anything more than a simple argument. But 4chan, a lot of nice wording, and you can take atleast a small portion of people claiming they are Anon and utilize them as a personal army outside of the fact they claim to be everything but.

My issue is the very fact since Anon is a loose coalition of people who want to try and push a "greater good" and also get "lulz" makes them entirely contradictory. Since no one is anon and there exists no one true head, it creates a creature with an erratic behavior set that may one day stand up for personal freedom and the next do something that makes people question any deed of potential merit they did in the past.

The attacks on sites that a general consensus (Whether it is an honest majority or just a few individuals that others decide to follow with) disagrees with is not making any real change happen and is only showing that you should fear speaking out against anon when a good number of them are onboard with an idea. So the fact they champion free speech is a bit of a farce, because certain involved elements won't leave dissenting opinions alone and people tend to overlook any Anon bad for the Anon good when they want to make a cause for them.

It's a slippery slope and while I can say some of the people who do work on the behalf of anon are doing so with the right intention, the execution and inclusion of people who just want to simply troll or start # causes issue. However, like any entity that results from a collection of people, individuals need to realize the good and the bad and respect others opinions on the matter.

The free speech and open internet ideas are great in theory, but since it is a beast with infinite heads, I can't personally get behind it because there is no common and rooted philosophy behind the movement. I need a basis for my political ideologies, but that is a personal thing.

So while some may have noble intentions, the kids out for #s and giggles, and the sometimes irrational patterns of behavior discredit it for me personally.

By all means, carry on with your differing opinions fine internet folk, but I don't feel people should have to worry about being told they should leave ATS for the fact they disagree with something, even if it is the online juggernaut known as Anonymous.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 



To the members who are to afraid to talk about something on a Thread and they have to resort to U2U to speak there mind your are on the wrong website cowards


Wow...I didn't know ATS had such high standards.

I guess if you aren't a coward...then you will just post all of your personal information here for everyone to see...right?


DDoS scripts are most likly part of there aresonal . You have no clue what they know , what they are capable of , nor what they can do after an internet kill swittch.


You have no clue what they are capable of either. Or if you do have some "inside" information...please share.


You don't know the majoirty of Anon and neither do we . Thats why they are anon. I wouldnt be surprised if they were working on there own version of servers to use as a internet gateway in the event of internet kill switch





but thus far they have shown me no reason for me not to support them.


Really...you support all the examples I gave above? You support the harassment of individuals because they don't agree with that persons views?


If that is the case, then that is just one more reason why I am glad I don't support them.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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You kind of seem to pick and choose stories from your source to make Anonymous look bad. But, here are some of the stories from your same exact source that you chose not to post (obviously because it answers the question posed in your title).


Hal Turner raid
According to white supremacist radio host Hal Turner, in December 2006 and January 2007 individuals who identified themselves as Anonymous took Turner's website offline, costing him thousands of dollars in bandwidth bills. As a result, Turner sued 4chan, eBaum's World, 7chan, and other websites for copyright infringement. He lost his plea for an injunction, however, and failed to receive letters from the court, which caused the lawsuit to lapse.



Chris Forcand arrest
On December 7, 2007, the Canada-based Toronto Sun newspaper published a report on the arrest of the alleged Internet predator Chris Forcand.[16] Forcand, 53, was charged with two counts of luring a child under the age of 14, attempt to invite sexual touching, attempted exposure, possessing a dangerous weapon, and carrying a concealed weapon. The report stated that Forcand was already being tracked by "cyber-vigilantes who seek to out anyone who presents with a sexual interest in children" before police investigations commenced.

A Global Television Network report identified the group responsible for Forcand's arrest as a "self-described Internet vigilant group called Anonymous" who contacted the police after some members were "propositioned" by Forcand with "disgusting photos of himself." The report also stated that this is the first time a suspected Internet predator was arrested by the police as a result of Internet vigilantism.



2009 Iranian Election Protests
Following allegations of vote rigging after the results of the June 2009 Iranian presidential election were announced, declaring Iran's incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as the winner, thousands of Iranians participated in demonstrations. Anonymous, together with The Pirate Bay and various Iranian hackers, launched an Iranian Green Party Support site Anonymous Iran.The site has drawn over 22,000 supporters world wide and allows for information exchange between the world and Iran, despite attempts by the Iranian government to censor news about the riots on the internet. The site provides resources and support to Iranians who are protesting.



Operation Payback
In 2010, several Bollywood companies hired Aiplex Software to launch DDoS attacks on websites that did not respond to software takedown notices. Piracy activists then created Operation Payback in September 2010 in retaliation.The original plan was to attack Aiplex Software directly, but upon finding some hours before the planned DDoS that another individual had taken down the firm's website on their own, Operation Payback moved to launching attacks against the websites of copyright stringent organisations, Law firms and other websites. This grew into multiple DDoS attacks against anti-piracy groups and law firms. On December 2010 Operation Payback organizers focused their attention in DDoS websites of companies that oppose WikiLeaks.


What has 'Anonymous' done that is worthy of support?? Plenty it seems!




posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by seedofchucky
 



To the members who are to afraid to talk about something on a Thread and they have to resort to U2U to speak there mind your are on the wrong website cowards


Wow...I didn't know ATS had such high standards.

I guess if you aren't a coward...then you will just post all of your personal information here for everyone to see...right?


DDoS scripts are most likly part of there aresonal . You have no clue what they know , what they are capable of , nor what they can do after an internet kill swittch.


You have no clue what they are capable of either. Or if you do have some "inside" information...please share.


You don't know the majoirty of Anon and neither do we . Thats why they are anon. I wouldnt be surprised if they were working on there own version of servers to use as a internet gateway in the event of internet kill switch





but thus far they have shown me no reason for me not to support them.


Really...you support all the examples I gave above? You support the harassment of individuals because they don't agree with that persons views?


If that is the case, then that is just one more reason why I am glad I don't support them.




"I guess if you aren't a coward...then you will just post all of your personal information here for everyone to see...right?"


Who said anything about posting personal information ? Why make # up ? Are you on the glue sniffing again ? or is it gas this time?


"You have no clue what they are capable of either. Or if you do have some "inside" information...please share"

Inside information ? Im on the same boat as you pal. Surface level trying to find out whats under our ocean with this annon business. You attack them like you know who they are , and what they are capable of . But you havnt the slightest clue . I don't either i don't pretend to know either. All im saying is they have not given me a reason right now not to support them .


"Really...you support all the examples I gave above? You support the harassment of individuals because they don't agree with that persons views?"

"Make sure your brand is protected… Make sure there are no incursions. Be litigious. Sue everybody. Take their homes, their cars. Don't let anybody cross that line" gene

sue everybody take there homes their cars ? I could understand why he would be attacked with such a statement . who are you gene ? There is one thing to have an opinion . then its another to make such totalitatrian statements .

Did they go to far by attacking ? maybe ...

would i have done it ? probably not ...

is it justified ? depends who you ask ...

but i can understand why they would attack his website on this basis. They wanted to hurt his business not him.


"Some of you may have heard a few popcorn farts re: our sites being threatened by hackers.
Our legal team and the FBI have been on the case and we have found a few, shall we say "adventurous" young people, who feel they are above the law.

And, as stated in my MIPCOM speech, we will sue their pants off.

First, they will be punished.

Second, they might find their little butts in jail, right next to someone who's been there for years and is looking for a new girl friend.

We will soon be printing their names and pictures.

We will find you.

You cannot hide.

Stay tuned."


no cussing club ?



""It has come to our attention that the creators of the no cussing club, McKay and Brent Hatch have done so at great personal gain. Their material promotes the organization as the brainchild of their 14-year-old son, when actually the material is written by his parents, who also manage his profitable career while using his speaking events to plug their own material," said Anonymous on the hacked website. On Encyclopedia Dramatica, a satire Wiki, they claim further responsibility for the hack and exposition saying they managed to break into McKay and Brent Hatch's email accounts. [...]"


"The e-mails allege that Brent along with his publishing company, the name which "nocussing.com" is also registered under, were trying to set up assemblies in the No Cussing Club's name at schools across the United States for US$1,500.00 per show "
anotherlookatscientology2.blogspot.com...


material written by his parents and sold as the child being brain of operation?

false advertising attack ?

justified ...perhaps depends on who you ask ..

again i can understand why they would do it .....



youtube porn ?
"4chan has been labeled as the starting point of the Anonymous meme by The Baltimore City Paper,[13] due to the norm of posts signed with the "Anonymous" moniker. The National Post's David George-Cosh said it has been "widely reported" that Anonymous is associated with 4chan and 711chan, as well as numerous Internet Relay Chat (IRC) channels.[43]

Through its association with Anonymous, 4chan has become associated with Project Chanology, a worldwide protest against the Church of Scientology held by members of Anonymous. On January 15, 2008, a 4chan user posted to /b/, suggesting participants "do something big" against the Church of Scientology's website. This message resulted in the Church receiving threatening phone calls. It quickly grew into a large real-world protest. Unlike previous Anonymous attacks, this action was characterized by 4chan memes including rickrolls and Guy Fawkes masks. The raid drew criticism from some 4chan users who felt it would bring the site undesirable attention" en.wikipedia.org...


The youtube porn i have yet to reserach more into it and find out if it was member of anon and there purpose of doing it . 4chan ... anon?


most of them are justified to a certain degree when you dig deeper into it .


I have no problem with annon right now . i do not accept nor dismiss them . I will keep then open and benifit of the doubt. Untill i see something done that is unjust.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by YourPopRock
 


Totally agree with this post!

I will post my reply to Mindspin from the other Anonymous thread here, as he seems to have such a bee in his bonnet about it, yet wants to ignore everything to suit his malformed opinion.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Edit to add : In case you missed it before Mindspin - 4chan forum is not Anonymous and I'm still waiting for proof that Anonymous did what you say it did, because you seen it on wikipedia???

edit on 10-2-2011 by kcfusion because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-2-2011 by kcfusion because: spelling



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by YourPopRock
 



You kind of seem to pick and choose stories from your source to make Anonymous look bad.


Anonymous made themselves look bad by participating in the activities I posted. My thread is about why I don't see Anonymous as worthy of support.

If you are wanting a fanboy thread to support Anonymous...you can create your own.



Hal Turner raid


They don't agree with what he says (neither do I), so they silence him by shutting down his website. I don't agree with that method and so I will not support that action...no matter how nobel they thought they were being.

Would you support someone going an shooting Hal Turner because they don't agree with what he says? They would be taking action against him just like Anonymous did...vigilantism is something I don't support...no matter to what degree the action is.


Chris Forcand arrest


Yes, I have no problem with this one. I applaud the actions of whoever decided to CALL THE POLICE, instead of trying to take matters into their own hands.

Do you not see the difference in this action compared to the others? The did nothing ILLEGAL...they called the police like they were supposed to.

It's funny though...I would suspect that Anonymous is anti-police and authority...and yet they ran to them in this case.


2009 Iranian Election Protests


Again...nothing wrong with this. They created a website and protected it from being taken down. This is the type of action I could support if ALL their actions were like this. But they aren't...I can't support someone who would do this, and then turn around and shut down Visa and Paypal websites just because they decided they don't agree with them. Again...vigilantism...I don't support it.

Now if they would of created a bunch of websites to organize a boycott...I could support that. But they are deciding for ME in this case...what if I wanted to use the Visa website...what if my business depends on Paypal??? Why should Anonymous decided for ME whos services I can use or not use???



Operation Payback


All of Operation Payback I disagree with...buy your music and your movies...stop being cry babies about not being allowed to steal stuff.

Or grow a set...walk into a brick and mortar store and steal your music or dvd. They won't do that because they KNOW that is wrong...but it is the exact same thing they cry about.

Same with DDoS attacks...why don't they go to Visa's or Paypals headquarters and try to shut down the actual building??? They won't...because they know it is WRONG.



Again...Anonymous does not speak for ME...I did not give them authority to make decisions for ME...and when they go out and take down public websites...they are dictating which services I can and can not use.

And I will never support that.

It wouldn't fly in the real world...it shouldn't fly in the virtual world.



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