ATS temperature on same sex marriage

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Why? Because the government inserting themselves into people's relationships (marriage) creates all kinds of benefits that those who are not married receive...IE. taxes.

All kinds of benefits... good grief, why is it all I hear about is the "benefits" and never anything about the obligations and loss of freedom? And by the way marraige does not = tax benefits, very often marraige is a detriment not a benefit when it comes to taxes.

Well times are changing now. But as it has been, there has been benefits for married people that "single" people did not receive. For example, many companies would not offer health insurance benefits to significant others (people in relationship but not legally married). Now many companies do. But that is new.

And how about visitation rights in the hospital and a plethora of other legal issues invovling families. Being married has had it's privledges - and to deny this is ignorant.

I personally do not think two people need to be "legally married" in order to be in a loving committed relationship - gay or straight. But many people DO - gay AND straight. Their reasons - now - are thier personal reasons. And it is nobody's business why, especially the government.

Originally posted by Maslo
I dont see how this is relevant to the thread topic anyway. You should answer questions about gay couples just like you answered questions about straight couples.

I'm sure that will work fine with really dumb kids.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by something wicked
English here so I may not understand this completely. Can you name these intrusions you imply but don't seem to actually mention please? Please don't mention divorce laws as common law marriage would also allow for some restitution.... struggling to think of anything else?

All the legalities attached to marraige (and yes, divorce does "count") are government intrusions into personal relationships.

Ok.... that's one, but as I say, common law marriage over here means that even if you aren't married but have been co-habiting there is some element of restitution if the relationship reaches an end should one party or the other decide to claim it and a court thinks the request is reasonable.

I gave you one to work with, could you name some more yourself please? I'm interested, that's all.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by Maslo
Because they love each other just like your mom loves your dad. That should answer the question just fine.

Well it doesn't, maybe if you have dumb kids they'll be satisfied.

yes because kids who have been taught that LOVE can happen between the same gender makes them dumb.
funny stuff there.

Please explain your logic here. I am truly curious how this makes them dumb. Seriously. Id love to see your thought process on this.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

All kinds of benefits... good grief, why is it all I hear about is the "benefits" and never anything about the obligations and loss of freedom?

How, precisely would gay marriage inhibit the freedoms of anyone else? Maybe I am misunderstanding your statement. But, if not, I truly fail to see how gays being allowed to marry would rob heterosexuals of any freedom at all - other than the "freedom" to exclude others from the institution of marriage.

~Heff

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by Maslo
I dont see how this is relevant to the thread topic anyway. You should answer questions about gay couples just like you answered questions about straight couples.

I'm sure that will work fine with really dumb kids.

Well, if they ask such questions, they are not the brightest anyway. Simple question, simple answer.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I personally do not think two people need to be "legally married" in order to be in a loving committed relationship - gay or straight. But many people DO - gay AND straight. Their reasons - now - are thier personal reasons. And it is nobody's business why, especially the government.

Personal relationships are not the governments business. If you need your relationship to be sanctioned by the government and you need the government to define and enforce your obligations to your partner etc. etc. than you don't belong in any kind of relationship anyhow.

Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by Maslo
I dont see how this is relevant to the thread topic anyway. You should answer questions about gay couples just like you answered questions about straight couples.

I'm sure that will work fine with really dumb kids.

Well, if they ask such questions, they are not the brightest anyway. Simple question, simple answer.

Now now. Do not blame the kids. Blame the parents, for it is the parents that taught them that only man and woman can love each other.

What I find funny is that my 6yr old daughter who is super bright......does not think twice about seeing two men hold hands or whatever. She knows that holding hands and kissing is a sign of affection and love. She is not only "color blind" but "gender love" blind. And guess what..........I have never sat down and had to explain a thing to her. She does not ask what they are doing because she was not raised to look at people who are different than her and think that something is wrong.

Smart kids just get it. They understand love and affection. Kids are dumb when their parents limit their view of the world. It is not the kid's fault - it is 100% the parent's fault

Originally posted by Hefficide
How, precisely would gay marriage inhibit the freedoms of anyone else? Maybe I am misunderstanding your statement. But, if not, I truly fail to see how gays being allowed to marry would rob heterosexuals of any freedom at all - other than the "freedom" to exclude others from the institution of marriage.

The legalities attached to marraige are NOT voluntary, they are imposed and they can be changed whether the couple agrees to them or not. All government intrusion into personal relationships robs individuals of freedom.

I should probaly start a thread on this but I just joined(after about 3 yrs of reading) but what would gay marriage say about us as a people and country? I mean our persona as america and americans is big tough brutal and strong nation and to have a bunch of sissys running around get married is not what TPTB want.(not saying all gays are sissy boys but again that is the general perception.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Now now. Do not blame the kids. Blame the parents, for it is the parents that taught them that only man and woman can love each other.

What I find funny is that my 6yr old daughter who is super bright......does not think twice about seeing two men hold hands or whatever. She knows that holding hands and kissing is a sign of affection and love. She is not only "color blind" but "gender love" blind. And guess what..........I have never sat down and had to explain a thing to her. She does not ask what they are doing because she was not raised to look at people who are different than her and think that something is wrong.

I see... so if your daughter sees men necking, french kissing etc. etc. she'll just think, "oh they love each other just like Daddy and Uncle Joe?"

Sounds brillant.

reply to post by greeneyedleo

Smart kids just get it. They understand love and affection. Kids are dumb when their parents limit their view of the world. It is not the kid's fault - it is 100% the parent's fault

Yeah, I agree. My point was that smart kids will easily understand the simple answer, and dumb kids wont probably commence to engage in a philosophical dispute about gender associated prejudice in modern society with their parents anyway.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Now now. Do not blame the kids. Blame the parents, for it is the parents that taught them that only man and woman can love each other.

What I find funny is that my 6yr old daughter who is super bright......does not think twice about seeing two men hold hands or whatever. She knows that holding hands and kissing is a sign of affection and love. She is not only "color blind" but "gender love" blind. And guess what..........I have never sat down and had to explain a thing to her. She does not ask what they are doing because she was not raised to look at people who are different than her and think that something is wrong.

I see... so if your daughter sees men necking, french kissing etc. etc. she'll just think, "oh they love each other just like Daddy and Uncle Joe?"

Sounds brillant.

edit on 11-2-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

No she will not think that at all She will think either it is gross because she thinks even straight people kissing like that is gross.......or she will think the truth: They must LOVE each other. Because in her mind, kissing and holding hands and showing affection = LOVE! She does not see it as perversion or not natural

I do not raise her to believe that people who are different than her are not normal.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
or she will think the truth: They must LOVE each other. Because in her mind, kissing and holding hands and showing affection = LOVE! She does not see it as perversion or not natural.

edit on February 11th 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

So why don't Daddy and Uncle Joe do it?

The gay men might love each other, but love is not really the explanation for why their behavior is different than most other men.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
or she will think the truth: They must LOVE each other. Because in her mind, kissing and holding hands and showing affection = LOVE! She does not see it as perversion or not natural.

edit on February 11th 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

So why don't Daddy and Uncle Joe do it?

Because they do not love each other like that. She understands sibling love verse romantic love.

I would tell her that I do not kiss my brother like that even though I love him.
She is smart. She gets it. As do many kids unless they are raised by parents who teach them ignorance.

reply to post by SevenBeans

I see... so if your daughter sees men necking, french kissing etc. etc. she'll just think, "oh they love each other just like Daddy and Uncle Joe?" Sounds brillant.

But this is not a gender issue at all. Daddy and Auntie Jane love each other, too, so why are they not kissing?. You could apply the same problem to heterosexual relationships.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
or she will think the truth: They must LOVE each other. Because in her mind, kissing and holding hands and showing affection = LOVE! She does not see it as perversion or not natural.

edit on February 11th 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

The gay men might love each other, but love is not really the explanation for why their behavior is different than most other men.

edit on 11-2-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

Sure it is! They LOVE each other.

Your love for a woman would be different than your love for your mother, right? But it is LOVE. You express it in different ways. You express your love for a woman by holding hands and kissing. You express your love for your mother by giving her a hug and maybe a kiss on the cheeck. You express your love for your pet by hugging and caressing him and taking care of him.

A gay man will express his love and/or affection for another man by hugging, kissing, holding hands. A gay man who does NOT love another man will not express himself towards another man in this way. Plenty of gay men who are not attracted to another man. This goes for straight men too. It is exactly the same.

This is not hard to get unless you chose it to be that way.

The only reason to uphold inequalities in society is spite and fear.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of terrified, spiteful people in the world.

Originally posted by Maslo
But this is not a gender issue at all. Daddy and Auntie Jane love each other, too. You could apply the same problem to heterosexual relationships.

But Daddy doesn't behave like that with other men and Auntie Jane doesn't behave like that with other women.

Most men don't love other men "that way" and most women don't love other women "that way."

Why are these two men behaving differently?

They love each "that way" is basically the same as saying "unlike most men, they aren't attracted to women but to other men."

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
or she will think the truth: They must LOVE each other. Because in her mind, kissing and holding hands and showing affection = LOVE! She does not see it as perversion or not natural.

edit on February 11th 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

So why don't Daddy and Uncle Joe do it?

Because they do not love each other like that. She understands sibling love verse romantic love.

I would tell her that I do not kiss my brother like that even though I love him.
She is smart. She gets it. As do many kids unless they are raised by parents who teach them ignorance.

edit on February 11th 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

Because they do not love each other like that. She understands sibling love verse romantic love.

I would tell her that I do not kiss my brother like that even though I love him

Quite frankly I think youre lying! No six year old can explain nor understand the differences you claim. They may see and feel "love", but they dont "understand" it. No parent "teaches their children ignorance", it is acquired over time by exposure to purposefully skewed "facts" or "poor instruction". imo