ATS temperature on same sex marriage

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That happens with straight couples. Ever heard of a marriage of convenience?

Of course, but this will bring it to a whole new level... if same gender marraige is recognized you have to recognize "marraiges" between straight same gender cousins, straight same gender siblings etc. etc.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No. It's for EQUAL TREATMENT. Including a group of people that has been previously excluded is not MORE government. It is for equal treatment under the law. Your position is for discrimination.
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My position is that the government should not impose itself upon any relationship (straight or gay)... my position is for equal treatment and greater freedom (less government imposition), your position is for equal treatment and less freedome (more government imposition).

Originally posted by SevenBeans
Marraige is a religious institution. If there is not a religious ceremony involved what you really have is a civil union (though lots of people call it marraige).

Yes, lots of people call it marriage, including the contract, the state AND the law. It IS marriage. It is a legal and binding contract of marriage.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Calling that a "contract" between the two parties is absurd.

As I said, you are describing your world view, not the reality of the matter.

In your head, I'm not married and marriage is not a contract. Both of these statements are patently false and reside in your imagination only.

And you're spelling marriage wrong.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
As I said, you are describing your world view, not the reality of the matter.

Incorrect, if we sign a "contract" and someone else can come along and change the conditions of that "contract" later on (without even consulting us)... calling it a "contract" is foolish.

Originally posted by SevenBeans
My position is that the government should not impose itself upon any relationship (straight or gay)... my position is for equal treatment and greater freedom (less government imposition), your position is for equal treatment and less freedome (more government imposition).

So your position is that same sex marriage should be allowed, and that the govt has no right to intevene otherwise. You wish to allow equal treatment of straights and gays in the institution of marriage (be it religious or not, that is still to be determined by each individual).

If we take govt completly out of the equation, you support gay marriage.

Originally posted by youdidntseeme
So your position is that same sex marriage should be allowed, and that the govt has no right to intevene otherwise. You wish to allow equal treatment of straights and gays in the institution of marriage (be it religious or not, that is still to be determined by each individual).

If we take govt completly out of the equation, you support gay marriage.

Gays can get "married" all they want, no one will come arrest them, or fine them, or put them in jail... generally though when people talk about gay marraige they are talking about extending the current legalities (government intrusions) of marraige to same gender couples. I'm against these government instrusions.

Originally posted by SevenBeans
if same gender marraige is recognized you have to recognize "marraiges" between straight same gender cousins, straight same gender siblings etc. etc.

What? What are you talking about? Siblings are not permitted to marry and haven't been for centuries. Cousins can marry now. It's already that way. Source

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
My position is that the government should not impose itself upon any relationship (straight or gay)... my position is for equal treatment and greater freedom (less government imposition), your position is for equal treatment and less freedome (more government imposition).

I don't want more government intervention. I already said I support government getting out of marriage altogether, but that's not how it is NOW. Right now, the state allows marriage between opposite genders. As long as the state is doing it, and providing benefits, everyone should be able to partake and glean these benefits.

I have given you several sources supporting my position. You have given your opinion with no sources...
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What? What are you talking about? Siblings are not permitted to marry and haven't been for centuries.

If same gender "marraige" is recognized there is no reason not to recognize the marraige of two brothers, uncle and nephew, grandfather and grandson etc. etc.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't want more government intervention. I already said I support government getting out of marriage altogether, but that's not how it is NOW. Right now, the state allows marriage between opposite genders. As long as the state is doing it, and providing benefits, everyone should be able to partake and glean these benefits.

Everyone can, some people choose not to because they aren't attracted to the opposite gender or for various other reasons. And please... everyone can have whatever kind of "marraige" ceremony they want, it's perfectly legal, what we're talking about is the government imposing legalities upon relationships (not "allowing marraige," there is no "ban").

Originally posted by SevenBeans
Gays can get "married" all they want, no one will come arrest them, or fine them, or put them in jail...

No, they can not! They cannot get a marriage license in 44 states. A marriage license in necessary to get married.

Marriage is a legal institution not offered to a segment of society.

You make no sense whatsoever. I'm done arguing with someone who is stubbornly sticking to fantasy instead of fact.

Originally posted by youdidntseeme

Originally posted by G.A.G.
There was another thread on how homosexual behavior by homosexuals, can and has affected "other", non homosexuals. However the thread was stopped by the moderators, I can only guess because it was too controversial or provocative. Which is not reason enough if t&c were being followed. In any case... to say it does not "affect" anyone else is just plain false.

Well lets discuss how it does 'effect' other people, and could we apply those 'effects' t the marriage debate?
What makes it 'plain false?'

Once married, assuredly homosexuals will be prancing around in public places holding hands, and kissing each other, forcing some non homosexual "parents", to try to come up with a logical explanation for this, when confronted by their children. Children are inquisitive creatures, and how in the world do you try to explain to a child..."its ok, they just care for each other alot" when you yourself dont believe it is ok, or natural or morally/ethically correct to do? Gay folks dont think of those type of ramifications, or dont care about them because they are actively trying to literally "recruit" children, onto their team". Behind closed doors, where we force people to drink alcohol or smoke pot, is where (imo) this type of behavior, is fine.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No, they can not! They cannot get a marriage license in 44 states. A marriage license in necessary to get married.

Marriage is a legal institution not offered to a segment of society.

You're far too wrapped up in semantics.

The government will not impose legalities upon their relationship, but they can have any kind of commitment ceremony that they want... no one will come arrest them and throw them in jail (stop talking as if they are "banned" from doing so).

Originally posted by G.A.G.
Once married, assuredly homosexuals will be prancing around in public places holding hands, and kissing each other,

And they don't do this now? What makes you think they will be displaying their affection in public any more once they are married?

Their first amendment freedom would bother you, huh? Read my signature. You don't support the Constitution. You support rights for YOURSELF, not for other people. How typical!

Gay folks dont think of those type of ramifications, or dont care about them because they are actively trying to literally "recruit" children, onto their team". Behind closed doors, where we force people to drink alcohol or smoke pot, is where (imo) this type of behavior, is fine.

Oh, Lord! That is hilarious! Where are people being forced to smoke pot and drink alcohol again? Oh, man! That was a good one!

reply to post by G.A.G.


Ah yes, because a piece of paper will suddenly change how they interact with each other That makes no sense.

And tell your kids they hold hands and kiss because they love each other. Then explain what love means - because clearly they do not know if they do not understand affection between people. Love has no bounds when it comes to gender. How sad that anyone would think it does. I find it very sad that you have defined the defition of love to fit your beliefs - rather than teaching love as it really is. Love is love regardless of who is loving who.

In regards to your recruiting...stooopid....ridiculous....
There is far more recruitiment from straights towards kids....look at hollywood and the music industry....look at the teachers who pray on our kids instead of teaching them.

Originally posted by G.A.G.
Once married, assuredly homosexuals will be prancing around in public places holding hands, and kissing each other, forcing some non homosexual "parents", to try to come up with a logical explanation for this, when confronted by their children. Children are inquisitive creatures, and how in the world do you try to explain to a child..."its ok, they just care for each other alot" when you yourself dont believe it is ok, or natural or morally/ethically correct to do?

You dont have to believe something is ok to explain it to an inquisitive child. Interracial marriage will evoke the same questions.

Gay folks dont think of those type of ramifications, or dont care about them because they are actively trying to literally "recruit" children, onto their team". Behind closed doors, where we force people to drink alcohol or smoke pot, is where (imo) this type of behavior, is fine.

Seriously? Recruitment? Really? This to me sounds like nothing more than anti-gay rhetoric, it doesnt seem to provide any evidence in support of your original point, it just furthers a personal opinion that disparages a segment of the population.

reply to post by G.A.G.

Once married, assuredly homosexuals will be prancing around in public places holding hands, and kissing each other, forcing some non homosexual "parents", to try to come up with a logical explanation for this, when confronted by their children. Children are inquisitive creatures, and how in the world do you try to explain to a child..."its ok, they just care for each other alot" when you yourself dont believe it is ok, or natural or morally/ethically correct to do?

Heaven forbid You are forced to acknowledge to your children that there are people in this world unlike yourself and that all people have the right to be an individual and make their own life choices.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
And tell your kids they hold hands and kiss because they love each other. Then explain what love means - because clearly they do not know if they do not understand affection between people. Love has no bounds when it comes to gender. How sad that anyone would think it does.

"Believe it or not some men aren't attracted to any woman on earth, they're only attracted to other men."

Don't confuse them by equating sexual attraction and love.

reply to post by G.A.G.

homosexuals will be prancing around Gay folks dont think of those type of ramifications, or dont care about them because they are actively trying to literally "recruit" children, onto their team"

That says alot about you.

I'm astounded that you hold a belief that gay people are trying to recruit children into homosexuality!

Take those blinkers off your eyes and grow up.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
And tell your kids they hold hands and kiss because they love each other. Then explain what love means - because clearly they do not know if they do not understand affection between people. Love has no bounds when it comes to gender. How sad that anyone would think it does.

"Believe it or not some men aren't attracted to any woman on earth, they're only attracted to other men."

Don't confuse them by equating sexual attraction and love.

I am not confusing or equating sexual attraction and love. But I think you are.

Affection has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with LOVE. You can show affection for people including children and animals and never have or want to have sex with them.

Originally posted by SevenBeans
"Believe it or not some men aren't attracted to any woman on earth, they're only attracted to other men."

Don't confuse them by equating sexual attraction and love.

And dont be confused yourself by equating love with sexual attraction. not all displays of affection are displays of lust or sexual attraction. But was this an anti gay statement, or an anti govt statement? You seem to be back and forth on these issues now.

reply to post by youdidntseeme


I'm not from Maryland but I agree with the OP completely. I have been married for over 35 yrs. and that little marriage certificate carries with it, many rights and privileges in our society that must be legally recognized by all parties. I am now convinced that if we allow the neo-cons to label gay/lesbian relationships by any title other than marriage, these people will not enjoy the same rights & privileges. By any other name, the neo-cons will dispute the legal authority of these new relationships just because they can and I think it would be best if we just close that door right now.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I am not confusing or equating sexual attraction and love. But I think you are.

Affection has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with LOVE

If a kid asks you why two gay men are kissing, holding hands etc. etc. it would be misleading/confusing to say "because they love each other." Many men love each other and don't act that way and that would be the child's next question ("why don't you and Uncle John kiss like that, don't you love each other?" etc. etc.).

The gay men are acting differently than what the child is used to seeing, not because "they love each other" (though they might) but because.... believe it or not some men are not attracted to any woman on earth, only to other men.