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Obamacare advocate make refusniks wear gold stickers

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posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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I don't think people who voluntarily opt out should be refused emergency services, but like another poster said they should have to pay in full with no payment plan or discount. If they can't pay, then their wages should be garnished and their house auctioned off for payment.


They are VOLUNTARILY taking this risk...and all risks have consequences...the rest of us that are responsible and have insurance are no longer going to foot the bill for people who try to roll the dice.




posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by James1982
My question:

I was laid-off and my unemployment, and work-insurance have both run out. I am doing everything in my power to find a new job, but being in a state with one of the highest unemployment rates of the country makes this extremely difficult.

So I can't afford ANYTHING for insurance. I deserve to die because of this situation I'm in, that is out of my control? I wish someone would come put a bullet in my head right now if that's the way the country is going, as I'd rather die a quick death than die slowly of an untreated medical condition in such a disgusting country.


Sure, they solve 3 problems all at once. See, if they don't treat you and you die, then they don't have to pay unemployment or social program benefits either! They save money in 3 directions, and the unemployment rate goes down, so they look like political heros. If someone does shoot you in the head or you do it yourself, then they can use it for gun control rhetoric, because obviously it was the gun's fault and not the political system's fault for cornering you in the first place. Suppose you don't die, and instead you self-medicate, then you are breaking a number of laws, and they can lock you up for that, and it still helps their unemployment numbers, but now they are also "tough on crime" and they can use that rhetoric for re-election.

The only problem is they forget how dangerous animals become when they are cornered, and eventually we will bite back.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by abecedarian
 


Not a bad comparison at all.

They're not going to force you. That's the point, and that's the point of the gold star example. If you choose not to pay for healthcare, you don't have healthcare, and there are consequences. Pretty much the status quo now if you choose to view having to pay with either your taxes and/or the cost of healthcare in general for other people now as "forced." Because you do pay one way or another. What some people are resisting based on...whatever...is simply so short-sighted. Does the current plan have problems? Yes. But the old "plan" (or non-plan) had worse ones.

They can't "force you" to get car insurance either, but try having a wreck and see what happens....


edit on 2/10/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:40 AM
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I don't think it's unreasonable to want the same kind of health care and benefits that my Representatives and congressmen enjoy at my [taxpayers] expense. Why the preferential treatment?

Essentially they are stealing my money in the form of taxes and buying THEIR healthcare for themselves and their families while I as a selfemployed business man have to shell out $1200 usd a mo. for myself and my partners insurance. Pre existing conditions cost big bucks when you don't qualify for a group plan or a company plan.
Fell thru the cracks!


edit on 10-2-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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In the spirit of the premise of the thread as "half-joking" I submit:

Posters who perpetuate nonsense on ATS should be summarily banned. (Self excluded of course)

When you go to a hotel and check in, they ask for a credit card before any service is rendered or you get a room key. As if to say, "How will you be paying for this." I'm cool with that.

Guess which half is the joke.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


interesting thoughts, i hope you put that the illegal alien problem should not be pardoned as well into this equation

As they have nearly bank rolled the california system, and now have been pardoned by your glorious leader obama in the next round of health madness of 2013



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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Depending on why you are seeking treatment, but in some cases it is actually cheaper to pay cash than use insurance. Insurance has set rates for specific treatments, while there are different rates for cash. Of course the government doesn't want you to know this.


S+F by the way. Interesting how paying for something yourself is diminished while positive affermation is given to joining the collective.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 



Depending on why you are seeking treatment, but in some cases it is actually cheaper to pay cash than use insurance. Insurance has set rates for specific treatments, while there are different rates for cash. Of course the government doesn't want you to know this.


I think it is cheaper in all cases, it just isn't cheaper to you.

For example, when my first son was circumsized, I had the choice of paying $300 cash, or letting insurance pay $1200, and my deductible was $250. So, my choice was do I save $50 and let my insurance company pay an additional $850 for no reason? I chose to pay cash, but I am sure many people choose to save the $50. It is quite a scam.

My Chiropractor does not take my insurance, but he allows me to pay the co-pay price anyway. I basically get $150 adjustments for $30 with no billing to my insurance, while other people are paying the same $30, but having an additional $120 billed to their insurance.

My Dentist actually told me to cancel my Dental Insurance. I was paying $90 per month, to get two cleanings per year, and I have never had a cavity in my whole life, and the insurance wasn't going to cover any major issues anyhow. The dentist recommended that I pay $120 per cleaning and he would throw the X-Rays in for free, and it saved me almost $1000 per year. If I put that $1000 into a health savings account, I will easily be able to afford any major repairs that the insurance would not have covered in the first place.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
On the flipside, I blew myself up one day after just getting health insurance the previous month. The insurance was on the hook for almost $1M in total bills, therapy, compression garments, multiple surgeries, etc. There is absolutely no way I could have footed that bill all on my own. The insurance was absolutely necessary. Without the insurance, I might have gotten patched up and sent home, but I would never have gotten all the expensive pressure garments or physical therapy. I would have gotten the bare minimum.

So, am a fan of insurance, but I believe it is over-used, abused, and scammed far too often.
edit on 10-2-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Insurance is abused. And people will take what they can from it for that one in a million chance that hey'd need major medical. I lost a good portion of my left leg. If I had to pay for it myself, my user ID would be "stumpy". So yeah, I have used insurance as well.

But what would be wrong with getting a medical insurance program to aid you in major stuff, but left the routine to the individual? I'm sure there are programs out there.

And wouldn't something like that cut abuses, and reduce costs?



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Absolutely!

And I believe the abuses are on the part of medical providers, not consumers. You shouldn't need insurance to get stitches or a flu shot or an antibiotic. Those things should be simple, direct, and affordable. Maybe insurance is appropriate for open-heart surgery or organ transplant.

Imagine if hospitals had menus like restaurants instead of a 1000 page legal agreement with each insurance provider and 100 different prices for the same procedure. Blue Cross you pay $X, Cigna you pay $Y, Cash you pay $Z, it is ridiculous. The price should be the price.

You might have hit on the solution to Healthcare. Require "Major Medical Coverage" kind of like Obamacare, but trimmed way, way down, and at the same time regulate healthcare providers to charge everyone the same price, and make sure that price is not gouging. We already have laws against price gouging, so enforce them.

In this way Insurance companies would save money, and people could afford coverage, and everyone would be treated the same.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 

Oh my god! We solved the healthcare crisis, here on ATS!
*Cheers*
Imagine the reduced cost of insurance, reduced cost on the billing issues that go on with hospitals. Private companies could compete with cheaper costs, let the free market be free. And if government HAS to be involved, then make it one price for those that just can't afford the regular insurance rates.

Brilliant!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by kinda kurious
Posters who perpetuate nonsense on ATS should be summarily banned.

Oh sweetie ...
... you'da been gone a four years ago if that was the case.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Imagine if hospitals had menus like restaurants

Now THAT would be awesome!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 


what a nut!! shut your yap people have aright to choices notFORCED CHOICES1111



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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Disease is not related to economic circumstance, willingness to work or how much we contribute to society, intelligence, education, income, productivity, age...etc.etc.

Cancer does not care if you have a job or don't, if you are 3 years old or 30, if you make a Million dollars or are impovershed.

The demand for healthcare is not related to capitalism. It is a constant not a variable. Not a luxury good.

No price elasticity. This affords an easy opportunity for folks to make Millions and billions exploiting this disconnect. Endless demand,...pay up or die.

Capitalism is great...healthcare has nothing to do with it.

Should people be able to "opt-out"? Yes as much as people should be able to "opt-out" of police or fire protection.

The Mandate should be dropped. Everyone should be covered and it should be paid via taxes and the Gov.

I am a big fan of capitalism, but healthcare has no place in capitalism.

Anyone who takes a moment to ignore the screaming and politics and simply thinks objectively about the issue quickly realizes that "demand" that is constant and not tethered to "supply' or "price" but that is treated as if it is...That is not capitalism...that is racketeering and extortion at the threat of certain suffering and death.


edit on 10-2-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-2-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by MMPI2
 





The Obama people (primarily) want to tag us like cattle. It is likely that the next "trial balloon" will be implanted biometrics.

Funny you should say that....

VeriChip Markets Its Implantable RFID Tags and Services Direct to Consumers

The company has launched a three-month advertising campaign for its newly rebranded Health Link system, and hopes to convince 1,000 South Floridians to get injected with rice-grain-sized transponders linked to health records.

April 28, 2008—VeriChip has launched a direct-to-consumer initiative known as Health Link, making its RFID system—previously branded as VeriMed—available to customers in South Florida's tri-county area. For $149, a consumer can have a passive 134 kHz RFID chip, compliant with the ISO 11784 and 11785 standards, implanted in his or her arm, with the transponder's unique 16-digit ID number linked to a database containing that individual's medical records and, if they so choose, a living will....

Thus far, about 900 hospitals on the East Coast have agreed to participate in the VeriChip system. These hospitals have received RFID interrogators that can be used to read a patient's embedded VeriChip RFID transponder to automatically access that person's medical records. Of those hospitals, Silverman says, about 200 have completed VeriChip training on using the system, and have been provided access to the VeriMed database...
www.rfidjournal.com...


Don't you love PROGRESSIVE socialism as it progresses towards slavery???


Wear your SLAVE COLLAR or you don't get any food or medical care....

Don't forget the Independent farmer eradication LAW and Why the Tester Amendment Does NOT Help Small Food Producers Under S.510



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
He's supposedly 'half joking' .. which means he's half serious.

What he wants to do is put a badge of shame upon Americans who do not want to be bullied into buying a product that they don't want and that they feel they don't need. He wants a public shame mechanism for those that don't buy into the forced purchase of Obamacare.

Obamacare = unsustainable.
Obamacare = waivergate.

And what this fella wants is a public declaration of ...
Obamacare = good citizen
no Obamacare = bad citizen




Can you just imagin the reaction if one of President Bush's people made a "half-joke" like this? People would be screaming for his head. And you're right if he was only half-jokeing then thread of seriousness to it. The half joke only came out when it upset people.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Stars on the forehead for those that don't comply....LMBO... The health care law is less about health care and more about redistribution of wealth. Do you really think that forcing some people to pay and giving financial breaks to others is a fair law.... They could care less whether you live or die...it's all about the money !!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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I find it utterly hilarious that when the Left infuses satire/parody into their talking points, the Right diminishes the candy coated comedic wrapper and focuses on the soft chewy center. Yet when the human bagpipe that is Rush Limbaugh DOES THE EXACT SAME THING we are chastised and told: "You just don't get him." :shk:
edit on 10-2-2011 by kinda kurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by Chance321
 



Can you just imagin the reaction if one of President Bush's people made a "half-joke" like this? People would be screaming for his head.


Put those same words in the mouth of Chaney or Rumsfield and it would have been all out war on at least 3 MSM news channels! In the mouth of a liberal, it is just a half-joke, no big deal.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by daddyroo45
 





They could care less whether you live or die...it's all about the money !!


It is also about control and power.

What happens if you are on the "Homegrown Terrorist Watch List" will you find your self shuffled to the bottom of the list time and again???

We just went through an Obama government assisted "refinance" We spent 14 MONTHS having our paperwork lost again and again. Finally the bank handed us a $20,000 bill for back payments, interest and lawyer fees due in 30 day or they would foreclose. Here is the incentive to lose paperwork.

Then the dance started all over with the bank refusing to give the actual amount owed. It took our lawyer six months to pin the turkeys down with a final threat to counter sue!

That is just a "simple" example of a government SNAFU. If you need a heart bypass can you wait 20 months for the feds and the insurance company to quit dancing around while they hope you die instead??




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