Yes, I kill babies and bathe in virgin's blood

reply to post by Caji316

And the tireless cry of the conspiracy theorist, "You're not high enough. If you deny us, you're not high enough".

No offense to the members of the Scottish Rite, but it really chaps my hide that the York Rite is so overlooked and often seen as subservient to the Scottish Rite. It's an insult to our history, our established, true hierarchy, and the system by which we elect our leaders.

As for the Scottish Rite, there is nothing above the 33rd.

Here is something I put together of the Masonic bodies:



How is it you think you know more about the structure of the Masons than us?

Something I have learned quickly though in my life...age doesn't always equal wisdom or knowledge.

reply to post by iLoGiCViZiOnS

So you're suggesting that the Bohemian Grove is the upper echelon of Freemasonry?

reply to post by Lateralussicksicksick

And misunderstanding has led to so many theories that turn out to be wrong.

reply to post by Mizzijr

I wouldn't say we are Karma based organization, but rather a moral based. We believe in doing right by the very fact its the right thing to do. We teach lessons of morality during the ceremonies to the candidate.

reply to post by lestweforget

It matters because no obligation would be considered binding by them if they didn't believe in a higher power who would hold them accountable.

What authentic documentation do you have that supports your assertion of Satan worship or your religion combination? Where does Pike say this?

reply to post by vinay86

Someone elses ignorance doesn't make us a secret society. That is illogical.

Originally posted by vinay86
80 % of world population have not even heard the word " freemasonry " despite its lodges being present everywhere in the world. And that makes it a secret society.

Stop pulling numbers out of your backside. Masonry is present in India which has over 1 Billion residents and accounts for pratically 20% of the worlds population alone. Combine this with other countries and I think the figure is much higher.

reply to post by KSigMason


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/73358eb924ef.gif[/atsimg]

which one is higher? I rest my case. Silly Yorkie. Scottish Rite 33rds are higher.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Stop pulling numbers out of your backside. Masonry is present in India which has over 1 Billion residents and accounts for pratically 20% of the worlds population alone. Combine this with other countries and I think the figure is much higher.

But also consider this that only 20,000 people are its member in India, the rest of the populace has no idea what freemasonry is and similar case is in Africa and other parts of Asia, it is widely known only in US and UK. Many of popular leaders whom people embrace in third world countries like mine were members of free masonic societies, but people don't know that hidden aspect of our politicians, which again makes it a secret society.

And the moderators of ATS also know this that's why they placed masonic symbolism on secret society forum.

reply to post by network dude

Saurus pointed that out in PM, but my powerpoint was being a pain and I just said "F it". I'm hoping someone tries using this later as evidence and I get to blow there minds by saying I put it together.

Well my thanks to everyone who replied to my questions until these moments I've only had an extremely one sided view, and you have helped balance that view point out for me.

Could I ask do Masons believe that god is within them or do they believe it to be an external deity to be worshipped?

I do have other questions but I imagine the knowledge is not aligned with my position of being someone outside of the society

reply to post by Allis1


Each Mason decides for themselves what they believe.

Freemasonry is not a religion, and there is no dogma about the nature of God.

Freemasonry teaches only moral and social virtues, while avoiding any religious discussion.

reply to post by CIAGypsy

I kill babies and bathe in virgin's blood

That seems like a terrible waste of virgins. I can think of much better things to do with them.

what do people really expect when they make accusations like that?

Try to understand that most people who make such accusations are probably not looking for a specific response. Their actions are not the result of any deliberate intent to interact with you or their environment to acheive a desired result. Rather, they are simply expelling verbal excrement that results from the digestion of the various ideas they have taken in.

This question is directed SPECIFICALLY at those people who really do think
Masons or any other person of a "secret society" do these things

*shrug*

It seems plausible to me that people do these things. But as you say, making accusations is unlikely to be productive towards my goals.

Originally posted by vinay86
But also consider this that only 20,000 people are its member in India, the rest of the populace has no idea what freemasonry is and similar case is in Africa and other parts of Asia..

How do you know, did you personally interview each of them? You make some rather amazing and broad statements on behalf of other people.

it is widely known only in US and UK.

And not in Australia? Or South Africa? Or Singapore? Or Canada? Or Africa? Or Asia?

Many of popular leaders whom people embrace in third world countries like mine were members of free masonic societies, but people don't know that hidden aspect of our politicians, which again makes it a secret society.

Like who? Provide some examples other then using soley your opinion.

Please stop being Ignorant about every aspect of freemasonry.

Follow your own advice and try looking for facts prior to posting.

reply to post by Saurus


See I never knew that, now when I type in Masonic Virtues instead of say Satanism, some nice analogies and teachings come up which are quite similar to other philosophies such as say Buddhism

The unfortunate thing is I'm always going to have to rely on second hand knowledge and interpretation because simply, I just don't agree with the learning process one has to undertake and I don't agree with the separation that comes with labeling one's self this and that. But if it works for you then great, also I think corruption can occur anywhere, like mould if theres a space for it to happen it will grow.

So I thank you again, for this brief insight

Originally posted by Allis1
Could I ask do Masons believe that god is within them or do they believe it to be an external deity to be worshipped?

In Freemasonry, God is recognized as the "Great Architect of the Universe", with emphasis on His creative agencies. While probably most Masons would agree that God dwells within us as well, Freemasonry recognizes God as a Supreme Being, higher than ourselves, that created the universe and everything in it.

Originally posted by LordBucket

what do people really expect when they make accusations like that?

Try to understand that most people who make such accusations are probably not looking for a specific response. Their actions are not the result of any deliberate intent to interact with you or their environment to acheive a desired result. Rather, they are simply expelling verbal excrement that results from the digestion of the various ideas they have taken in.

This question is directed SPECIFICALLY at those people who really do think
Masons or any other person of a "secret society" do these things

*shrug*

It seems plausible to me that people do these things. But as you say, making accusations is unlikely to be productive towards my goals.

edit on 10-2-2011 by LordBucket because: (no reason given)

This is EXACTLY the whole point of my thread.

What can any Mason or other initiate of any other secret society do to prove a negative? What "evidence" do the "believers" want that these things don't happen? If it is to "open up your lodges and make everything public access," well, that just simply won't happen. And even if it DID, the "believers" would just likely shift their opinion to say the sacrifices have, somehow, just gone underground.

So, dearest LordBucket, you have succinctly pointed out what I hoped the others would grasp. That they have become close-minded in their arguments and have battened down themselves to a position that can never be disproven, regardless of whatever reality may be. How has that ever helped anyone or, any issue, evolve?

reply to post by CIAGypsy


Honesty is the first step dear...Your candor is refreshing!

A jest???
I know we will see many more thread titles mimic this clever way to get attention.
As far as the question, if it was a question...maybe you just made a statement
and I am a fool to assume. ..ha ha pretty funny myself...

I guess it is a little like why Christians will always be looked upon as a little suspect for the witch trials, some even throw the Inquisition in their face.
I am sure no one ever accuses your husband of doing horrible things personally - maybe instead they wonder why he would align himself with a group where these things are hinted at and whispered as EVER happening? I know people say terrible things about me - for myself as a Christian, I just let the slanderous assaults roll of my back. We all know who and what WE are, regardless of our associations. Probably let that guide what you say and do with respect to outlandish accusations.
If I were you I would laugh at them....maybe offer to baby sit their infant children and virgin daughters. Roll with it.

reply to post by CIAGypsy

What can any Mason or other initiate of any
other secret society do to prove a negative?

People don't choose their beliefs based on proof. If you wish to change someone's belief, giving them proof is not an effective means. A more effective means might be, for example, to invite them to participate in your society. I realize that it's against the rules in the case of fremasonry to "advertise" but my goal in posting here is not to help you convince anyone of anything, but to help you personally to understand people.

There is no "proof" that could be offered that would reliably convince people one way or another about freemasonry, or anything else. If a conspiracy believer were to secretly tape inside a lodge and see nothing of interest he could very easily justify to himself that it was simply a different lodge where they eat babies. And if a freemason were to be asked by his lodge's chaplain to please eat this baby, he could just as easily justify to himself that only the chaplain was a psycopath, but that the whole of freemasonry was still good.

However, if the typical non-mason who belivees freemasonry is evil were to be invited into a lodge for a party, spend an evening chatting with freemasons over beer, such a person would be far more likely to give up his negative beliefs about freemasonry than if he were offered any kind of evidence. Why? Because he would have enjoyed their company, and would find it difficult to internally reconcile the idea that he had enjoyed the company of people who eat babies.

That is a mechanism of belief. Not "proof."

What "evidence" do the "believers" want that these things don't happen?

They don't want evidence. Again, what you're describing is not deliberate act intended for a specific result. And, very likely many of them take joy in the idea that they're "in the know" about a secret. If they were to change their beliefs, and belive that freemasonry is merely a scoial club, then they wouldn't be able to take joy in their secret knowledge.

They have no reason to want to change their beliefs. Why should they?

Originally posted by LordBucket
However, if the typical non-mason who belivees freemasonry is evil were to be invited into a lodge for a party, spend an evening chatting with freemasons over beer, such a person would be far more likely to give up his negative beliefs about freemasonry than if he were offered any kind of evidence.

And Augie has warned us again and again that lack of beer at our lodges would be our downfall. How right he was...

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
However, my husband and I were talking about this topic today. How people accuse Masons or other secret societies of doing these things and then scoff when they deny it.

What secret societies are you mentioning above, can you name any of them, do you think there are some societies that are secret, Is freemasonry is included in them.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

I realize that it's against the rules in the case of freemasonry to "advertise".

Why freemasonry can't advertise. I think if they advertise in newspapers and magazines about their noble cause, they would be able to raise more money and help the society more.

reply to post by LordBucket


Points are well made and in regards to some people, I agree with you. However, to those who would not EVER step a foot inside a masonic lodge or other secret society temple because they inherently believe that they are evil, your comments only further prove my point. In order for someone to "hang out" with masons for an evening, they have to have an open mind and not have pre-judged those individuals to be a tool of Satan. Most people I've seen who scream about sacrificing children hold no such open mindedness.

Originally posted by vinay86

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
However, my husband and I were talking about this topic today. How people accuse Masons or other secret societies of doing these things and then scoff when they deny it.

What secret societies are you mentioning above, can you name any of them, do you think there are some societies that are secret, Is freemasonry is included in them.

Sure....take your pick of any dozen threads on ATS - Freemasonry and OTO seeming to top the list, but others that often get lumped in are the Rosicrucians, Golden Dawn, Knights Templar, Temple of Set, etc... Of course, one could argue that the Temple of Set is not necessarily a "secret society," but then again....there is very little (superficially speaking) that is "secret" about any of these societies anymore.

Originally posted by vinay86

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

I realize that it's against the rules in the case of freemasonry to "advertise".

Why freemasonry can't advertise. I think if they advertise in newspapers and magazines about their noble cause, they would be able to raise more money and help the society more.

Maybe that isn't the point of what they are trying to do.... You should separate the charity from the purpose of the Lodge. One is just a tool in the bigger purpose of the other.