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Cables: FBI trained Egypt's state security 'torturers'

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posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


I'm not a fan of being ignorant; and I did think it odd that FBI was implicated here rather than a more international operating agency. Could it be the case the story is true if another acronym was used?

And here is where I show my superior ignorance: How is it worse if it was the FBI rather than CIA? I have an inkling or two but to my eyes you could replace any US agency and I would feel the same.




posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 

well DD, I would love to say good find and star
your thread but I am afraid you have been hoodwinked
my friend. This story is pure propaganda with an
objective to throw off the trail hounds.

That torture trail ends at the CIA doorstep
NOT the FBI !!!!

The FBI does NOT train Psy-Op agents from
other countries in torture techniques.

This is why you see CIA Specialist at
GITMO instead of FBI. And the story coming
from wikileaks is added fuel to the fire of
this being propaganda. TPTB are getting desperate
as they see their Psy-Ops falling on their @r$e
before they ever leave the ground by an informed
populace. They are desperate to cover their trail.
What you are reading in this article is proof of that.
And skurkneilson showing up on this thread to
hand out kudos to you for posting it is icing
on the cake. Skurk hosts a wikileaks mirror
site.

It's disinfo and should be treated as such.
You should be wise to this agenda by now DD.
I'm surprised.

best wishes

boon


edit on 2/9/2011 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)


What a crock.....
The people hardly discern one alphabet agency from the next..
They are ALL Government agencies so who cares???



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by Jinglelord
I'm not a fan of being ignorant; and I did think it odd that FBI was implicated here rather than a more international operating agency. Could it be the case the story is true if another acronym was used?

And here is where I show my superior ignorance: How is it worse if it was the FBI rather than CIA? I have an inkling or two but to my eyes you could replace any US agency and I would feel the same.

this article the OP posted is a disinfo story to cover up
this story


WASHINGTON — The man named by President Hosni Mubarak as his first ever deputy, Egyptian spy chief Omar Suleiman, reportedly orchestrated the brutal interrogation of terror suspects abducted by the CIA in a secret program condemned by rights groups.

His role in the controversial "war on terror" illustrates the ties that bind the United States and the Egyptian regime, as an unprecedented wave of protests against Mubarak's rule presents Washington with a difficult dilemma.

With Mubarak in jeopardy, Suleiman was anointed vice president last week and is now offering wide ranging talks with the opposition in a bid to defuse the crisis.


www.rawstory.com...

if you will notice, both stories came from the same
source rawstory. The only difference between the 2 is,
the 2nd one came from wikileaks originally before
rawstory reposted it. This basically proves wikileaks
to be disinfo as Sulieman was part of the CIA's
program called "Rendition". This was a CIA Op,
not an FBI op like in the op's claim.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
What a crock.....
The people hardly discern one alphabet agency from the next..
They are ALL Government agencies so who cares???

No, it's not a crock.
And there is a huge difference between the
FBI and the CIA.

1) The CIA Ops can be linked to Soros directly. This is the trail
they want eliminated.

2) The FBI has congressional oversight, the CIA does not.

3) Leading the trail away from the CIA, helps protect it's
funding sources which is the Soros laundering network.

4) FBI operates only domestically, CIA is international
and includes Egypt.

So this article had a very clear agenda, and that is why
you and I should care. It basically is a simplified version
of 9/11, commit the acts ourselves and lay the blame
where they want it. CIA-101. The FBI does not operate under
these Psy-Op rules of engagement like the CIA.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 06:04 AM
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FBI=Another MAD DOG that needs to
be put down.

Why anyone would defend the FBI is beyond me. Their
crimes our just as heinous as the CIA. Maybe worse.
What they do, they do to their own citizens.
edit on 10-2-2011 by orbitbaby because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by orbitbaby
FBI=Another MAD DOG that needs to
be put down.

Why anyone would defend the FBI is beyond me. Their
crimes our just as heinous as the CIA. Maybe worse.
What they do, they do to their own citizens.
edit on 10-2-2011 by orbitbaby because: (no reason given)


I agree. CIA is international security agency, and FBI is domestic. Just because it is domestic doesn't mean they crap bunnies and piss rainbows.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 
The FBI was suppose to be strickly a domestic Federal Force, but gradually they have become and extention of the CIA. They have been known lately of for being the inforcers of CIA out of Country. In the so called Drug War [that they never intended to win] is when they first began over the boarder recon. Now they have gotten totally out of control, and there is absolutley no oversite of anything they do.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Based on this you are claiming they were “trained in the dark arts of torture” by the FBI, when, from personal experience in this sort of LEO knowledge sharing, its far more likely that they were being taught routine law enforcement and intelligence gathering skills.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


Thank you for the clarification. I now understand why it makes a big difference as to who was involved. Very clever! Implicate one agency where there can be no real trail and real proof can't be provided in order to cover the responsible agency where a real trail and proof could exist.

I would also suspect there is quite a few additional little pieces of the puzzle that would flesh it out and make it a real smoking gun.

I suppose this adds credence to my refute to "You can't keep a real conspiracy quiet if more than one person is involved" I always say they aren't kept secret we hear about them every day, they have just gotten very good at making it so confusing people quit caring.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas
You hate the US so much, you jump on something like this as just another chance to badmouth the US. And you excuse torture when it's done to our boys. Why?


A: I can't speak for everyone but I happen to love the US, I think it is the best place in the world to live, and I appreciate ever one of my freedoms that others throughout the world don't get.

B: If I disagree with something I suspect the government of doing it is my job as a patriot and a person who loves America to call them on it and raise hell. That is not bashing of the US that is the ultimate in being an American.

C: I personally do not excuse torture of ANYONE, ANYWHERE, for ANY Reason. There is no place for it in the modern world.

D: It is not ok to teach torture, it is not ok to practice torture, it is especially NOT ok for a government that represents ME to have any part in torture whether it is teaching, practicing or even just condoning it anywhere.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by mishigas
 


We all know that Egypt tortures. Absolutely we need to "bash" the teachers. You really think that because Egpyt paid that makes it ok?

On a side note, I never understood how Americans being angry at what their government and institutions do can be "anti-American."



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


And skurkneilson showing up on this thread to
hand out kudos to you for posting it is icing
on the cake. Skurk hosts a wikileaks mirror
site.


edit on 2/9/2011 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)


Oh man, hilarious!

This from the guy that claims he is writing a book on Soros being the antichrist.

And I'm the biased one


But I'm glad I have such a special place in your heart boon



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra


There is a difference between the art of interrogation and the art of torture. Anyone can be trained on how to drive a car. ONce trained all that is left is the personal responsibility of the person, who is accountible for their own actions.

Do you really think Egypt does not train their own people in those ways? This is another dump on the doorstep campaign again.. It gets annoying.


Anyone can be trained how to drive a car... However not everyone is willing to teach a person with road rage and a inkling towards murder how to be more agressive in trafic. And that is the main problem isn't it? Why on earth would the US do that?

Would your reaction be the same if it was Iran, North-Korea or any other facist regime being trained by the US?
Or is any facist regimes police forces worthy of recieving training from the US?

And of course Egypt is training their own people in that way, but do you really think the US should help them be better at it?
After there apparently was no WMD's in Iraq it was the torture performed by the evil dictator Saddam Hussein that was one of the main reasons for invading, am I right? To me it seems a tad bit hipocritical to train another dictators torturist after that.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by SkurkNilsen
 



And of course Egypt is training their own people in that way, but do you really think the US should help them be better at it?


Should we teach a foreign nation's pilots the skills necessary to man a fighter jet or stealth bomber?

What's the difference?

I mean, war is war. At least with torture, you generally survive the ordeal.

And I have never received an explanation as to why it is acceptable to use a wonder drug to extract information, yet we balk at using a renewable resource?




After there apparently was no WMD's in Iraq it was the torture performed by the evil dictator Saddam Hussein that was one of the main reasons for invading, am I right? To me it seems a tad bit hipocritical to train another dictators torturist after that.


There was no 'rolling list of excuses' for invading Iraq. Well, maybe there was, but we needed something for public consumption.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas

And I have never received an explanation as to why it is acceptable to use a wonder drug to extract information, yet we balk at using a renewable resource?



So we're really teaching "Green Interrogation Technology"

I think the difference between green interrogation and other skill sets is that one is acceptable in the standard of modern warfare and the other isn't.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross
 




We all know that Egypt tortures. Absolutely we need to "bash" the teachers. You really think that because Egpyt paid that makes it ok?


We all know how using that approach on the 'War on Drugs' has worked, haven't we?



On a side note, I never understood how Americans being angry at what their government and institutions do can be "anti-American."


Well, first of all, most times you are only seeing a tiny part of the elephant.

Your rage is manufactured. Most times you never research the charges against the US; you just jump right in like lemmings. That gives a false image of truth to the allegations.

Youngsters are very gullible, and eager to rebel against authority. We should be teaching them better.

It gets to the point where it seems you are making a career of bashing the US. Go ahead, that's your right if you want to. But I will challenge you every time I see unfounded, unresearched, blind followers jumping on the bandwagon.

Don't get me wrong - I will challenge the John Murtha's and the Cynthia McKinneys, also. Even though they were part of our governance, they were corrupt and needed to be removed.

I don't blindly follow our elected officials. But I will stand by the principles that our country was founded on.

The USA is still the best nation in the world, bar none. She will remain, for years to come, that magnet for others to come to when they want to escape tyranny and seek freedom and better opportunities. Someone needs to defend her against the pack of rats nipping at her heels.

So, you do your thing and I'll do mine.

PS "You" refers to the collective "you". Nobody in particular.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by Jinglelord
 



Originally posted by mishigas

And I have never received an explanation as to why it is acceptable to use a wonder drug to extract information, yet we balk at using a renewable resource?


So we're really teaching "Green Interrogation Technology"

I think the difference between green interrogation and other skill sets is that one is acceptable in the standard of modern warfare and the other isn't.


I thought I'd toss a little cynicism in there to prod the eco-freaks and climate changers among us.


I still haven't ever received an answer to my question. That just goes to show how weak the arguments being presented here are.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by mishigas
 


I honestly don't think it is ok to use sodium pentothol (sp?) either so I'd be the wrong person to ask. That stuff is nasty and causes many long term effects to the point where water boarding might be more humane.

The point I can make in its favor is that I think it is actually effective when for the most part torture is more vindictive than effective.

I have done quite a bit of research into torture methods throughout the years and it seems torture is not a reliable way to get truths. It is a reliable way to get people to tell you anything to get you to stop though...



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
...But have also been busy little bees in the war crime training industry of torture and interrogation techniques.


Except of course the article says nothing at all about what the FBI was training the Egyptians for.

Is there a torture training school for FBI agents? If not (I suspect not...) where would they get the expertise to do such training? The military perhaps??

maybe they were training the Egyptians in things that there are FBI trasining courses for - things like actual police work?? that would be a good thing wouldn't it - getting them behaving like police officers instead of Torquemada??

I don't know that that is what they were taining them for of course - the article doesn't say that either - but it seems more likely on the balance of probabilities!



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by Jinglelord
 



I honestly don't think it is ok to use sodium pentothol (sp?) either so I'd be the wrong person to ask. That stuff is nasty and causes many long term effects to the point where water boarding might be more humane.


We have some of the finest chemists in the world. It won't be long before laughing gas is replaced by another drug.



The point I can make in its favor is that I think it is actually effective when for the most part torture is more vindictive than effective.

I have done quite a bit of research into torture methods throughout the years and it seems torture is not a reliable way to get truths. It is a reliable way to get people to tell you anything to get you to stop though...


See, I don't totally buy that argument AGAINST. Because if you told the torturer a lie, he's gonna find out. And when he comes to visit the second time, he won't be so nice.



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