I think I understand the point of this thread. You get a handfull of people saying Hitler did something. They tell a few people and those people run with it saying Hitler did something. Next thing you know everone is saying it and everyone simply accepts it as truth. Remember the truth is never dependent on a consensus of opinion. If a thousand people say something foolish it is still foolish. LOL. Don't remember where I heard that saying but i love it :-). Is there any proof that Hitler ordered these killings? Are there signed documents from him? Did he say "kill the Jews" or are people so used to hearing it that its just accepted as truth. And how many people that say he did it were perhaps trying to cover their own hides? With his constant plans to invade everyone there is no doubt he was a mad man. But just simply because he was mad doesn't make him automatically guilty. There are plenty of people who worked for him that were obviously bad. Did they take "get the Jews out of my country" and interpret that as a green light to kill them? (hypothetically speaking) And everyone assumed that Hitler gave the green light for the killings?

I think it's the 5 million figure you quoted that is incorrect. maybe it's a typo?

I was hoping that maybe one of those links contained an image of a document by Hitler ordering the killings. I don't have acrobat installed so I couldn't check the pdf file.

If the CEO of a corporation creates an empire of corruption, whether it was done by intent, or allowed to happen by negligence the person in charge is still held responsible. To think that Hitler was this 'poor little urchin' victimized by those around him has to be phenomenally unbelievable. 2 million people were butchered and Hitler didn't know? This stretches credulity beyond reality, it sounds like some sureal fantasy. Perhaps you want to mollycoddle Stalin while your at it.

Muppet
Yeah - I may be wrong on the actual number, but what I think he was getting at was how could the population of JWs be greater before than it is now....I dunno - if he wants to know he can go to the pages I provided above and find out what the correct number is and do the statstics from there...

lmao@Indy - no...no sign by the dotted line documents....that would be one hell of a lawsuit today if there was tho - lol....eh...ya, maybe that's not funny....

Arguing with people who don't have enough knowledge on this subject is no fun - most Americans grow up, as Indy pointed out, being told "Hitler is the devil" - Hitler was in many ways a genious...he created the first cheap public transportation vehicle...he envisioned the autobahn...he was the first person to establish a car payment system using coupons and credit (maybe that one was a bad one - lol) but he had too many other things floating around in his head that pulled him down and made him into this beastial less-of a-moral human being

I'm not saying Hitler didn't do it. He was certainly the boss and as the boss you are responsible for what your people do. Doesn't mean you did it but you are still responsible. He he didn't do it he certainly needed to have better control of his people. Result either way is that he takes the blame. Can we also consider the possibility that he was so wrapped up in his wars that he either didn't know about or didn't care about what was being done to civilians? Have you ever been so focused on something that you lose sight of what is happening around you? There is no doubt that he hated Jews. Thats very obvious from his own writing. But do we know for a FACT (in his writing) that he ordered the killings or did he simply look the other way and let his thugs do his dirty work?

I guess it all comes down to what is defined as evil. Does a person have to 100% evil all the time, or does 70%, or 50%, or 30% still count? Is a person less evil for killing one person rather than two?

Do other factors come into it? Was he a great leader because he united the german people, or was he lousy because he led them to destruction? He was he a great speaker for inspiring the masses, or was he a bad speaker for being so wrong?

It all depends on what you're measuring. I wouldn't invite him to any of my parties though.

BTW.... Hitler was a very busy leader dealing with wars and what not. As most good leaders do they delegate authority to people. Do you think he had the time to fight all his wars, take care of running a country and deal with something like the extermination of a race?

Agreed Muppet. The man had problems. Serious ones. He was a little Hitler. LOL. Ok I didn't know who else to compare him to. He wanted to take over everything and create the perfect Germany. Invite him over to your house and the next thing you know is you have the Nazi flag on your wall. Serious ego problem.

Not to mention he'd probablly rip down any art you have on the walls and replace it with the proper "high-art" - I can see it now....welcome to anohter episode of "Swapping Art," with your host....Adolf Hitler!

Regardless of what Hitler's precise role in everything was, he didn't do it alone. It would be blind of us to ignore an entire supporting apparatus. Again this points out that a large number of Germans were involved. And if Germans can do it, anyone can do it, including Americans. The best prevention is acknowledgment of our individual and collective potential, so we keep an eye on one another to keep us all on track.

Originally posted by cyberdude78

P.S. For the record I think he was a horrible person before anybody starts attacking me with torches and pitchforks.

In what way would such an "anybody" be any different from the worst Nazi, fascist, KKK member, criminal etc.?

I find it somewhat troubling - but, sadly, typical - that anyone even feels the need to add such a caveat ...









[edit on 10-12-2007 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by slank
Regardless of what Hitler's precise role in everything was, he didn't do it alone.

Indeed, he had quite hefty international support, right up to 1939...

And he didn't "do it" out of the blue, in a vacuum, either.

Situations always develop for a reason.

Demonising individuals (not to mention entire nations - on the basis of some "national character", I mean) is the REAL reason why history keeps repeating itself.






[edit on 10-12-2007 by Vanitas]