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History Biased Against Hitler

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posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 01:51 AM
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No offense Shea, but I feel I backed up my claims pretty thouroughly. I never attacked his opinion, simply showed why I said what I said.




posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by RockerDom
No offense Shea, but I feel I backed up my claims pretty thouroughly. I never attacked his opinion, simply showed why I said what I said.


Oh , no i wasnt talkingn about you...i was talkign about crmanager, zzub, ad5673, and mpeake who just denounced it with no real evidence.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:17 AM
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What did I denounce? Please don't put words in my mouth. He was a murderer. there is no doubt of that. That is all I stated, sheisasdumb.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:24 AM
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Well i was talking about the other people more...cyberdude78 was trying to say that hitler wasnt all responsible for the holocaust, and you guys just say "oh no, he did it"...whats the point of that?



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:30 AM
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Cool, I see what you mean. Just saying "no" isn't proof of a claim at all.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:35 AM
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Hah thanks for understanding, i just noticed that ur the moderator...oops



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 08:06 AM
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When I saw the thread title, I had to open this.....History biased against Hitler!? You have go to be kidding!! Hitler was as close to pure evil as you can get.......who cares if history is biased against him? His thoughts on "how' things "should" be are /were unbelievable. He thought the world should be all white, while he wasn't himself....he certainly wouldn't of wanted me this world, or my relatives......have you forgotten the children he murdered? All the people he murdered? Biased? Bwahahahahahahaha



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 02:57 PM
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Ok people I know he was evil. I know he was primarly responsible. But the main point I want to get across is that hes not the only one responsible.

[edit on 7/20/2004 by cyberdude78]



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 03:45 PM
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You bring up a great point that many people who don't do their own research typically never know....Hitler wrote Mein Kampf before he became the leader of Nazi Germany and detailed in it his plans - but Hitler was a bit lazy when it came to doing the grunt work - that's why he had Himler, Goebbels and countless others at his side...

Hitler would make a general request, like "The Jews must suffer" and Himler and gang would say, We have to give him results, he's crazy but I want to please him - and they'd turn it into a direct order or action that was fleshed out - Hitler knew what was going on, but he was often the last person on the chain to get the actual details

My last semester in college I took a course on Nazi Germany with a well-respected historian on this time frame, Dr. Nathan Stoltzfus - and I had a whole slew of papers on this very subject....but my hard drive crapped out and I lost them - I wish I could comment more but a lot of details have slipped my mind....If I could suggest just one book to read tho, try reading "Inside Hitler's Germany: A Documentary History of Life in the Third Reich" by Benjamin Sax and Dieter Kuntz - here's a link to it on Amazon

It has a lot of first hand experiences - and it's broken down into short little journals and brief pieces....it's not a textbook but like a collection and analysis of Hitler/Nazi-era PR, public reaction, and speeches

My overall opinion on Hitler is that he had many chances to evade the destiny he carved out for himself...history only shows that regardless of the evil inherint in his colleagues, he was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak...his actions are what set off a sequence of chain events and even tho he was by no means a true "leader" of the Nazi regime, he was a powerful symbol of it and inspired thousands to commit their lives to him and millions to loose them b/c of this....



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 04:09 PM
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Yes Hitler was the heavy facist was he not?

Mussolini called his brand of facism "new political and economic system that combined corporatism, totalitarianism, and nationalism."

Hitler modeled a great deal of his system on that of Mussolini.

Strangely these "corporatism," people hedged their financial bets on both sides of conflicts, profiting from them, and insuring they win no matter what.

Speaking from the behavioral sciences, when such a "positive reinforcement strategy," works for hundreds of years, the temptations of insitigated war are far too strong. Hitler may be viewed as another pawn of mega-financial operations. Let me make it clear that he was a miserable excuse for a human being, a theatrical blowhard who "entertained," or also "hypnotized," the so called "masses." It is more than arguable that he had governmental power, a terrible combination of factors.

He is also a convenient propaganda whipping boy, so the corporatists will try other variations of the same thing to generate more cash, debt, and suffering.

Mussolini forgot that the corporatists were always on top, and he was just another tool of their objectively idiotic ways of calculating a balance sheet.

[edit on 20-7-2004 by SkipShipman]



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 04:35 PM
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No, he was not the only one responsible. The people who followed his directives; from Himmler and Hess, all the way down to the SS leaders and common officers, performed their duties without question. That is just the nature of the German. What the Germans do, they do thoroughly and precise, even if it consists of trying to obliterate a people from the face of the earth. The are notorious record keepers; which served as a double edged sword, as it helped to convict many Nazi officers.

But, during that time, you also followed orders, or else. It wasn't just your well-being you were concerned for, it was also that of your families.

Back to the Concentration Camps. The head officers of the camps, were generally picked either because of a). they were weak, as in mentally and physically, or b.) they were just plain wacko.

Example( and I heard this from an ex-SS officer, who was at the Russian Front, and captured by the Russians in 1944, he was 16 at the time).

Take the weakest person you know. The one who was picked on in school, or rejected by the ladies. Tell him he is in charge of a labor camp. Give him God-Like powers. He is answerable to no-one, except those he needs to report to. He has a sharp-looking uniform now. He is an officer in the most advanced and disciplined army in the world. He has power over life and death. How do you think this man will act??

Better Yet: Tell him he can do whatever he likes at the camp, as long as he produces so many shell casings a week. If he doesn't do what was required of him, he, and his whole family, will pay the ultimate price.

Hitler may or may not have known exactly what was going on at the camps. Chances are, he did. Nothing of that scale could have happened without his knowledge. He may have authorized liquidations of a percentage of the prison camp population. Who else would have decided such things?



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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I remember a particular instance when a concentration camp leader refused to kill or excessively punish the "inmates" - I believe it was Himler that ratted on him and went to Hitler saying he was disobeying direct orders....Hitler investigated the matter and decided that it was his camp and he could do with it as he wished.....Another clear sign that Hiter had a clue of what was going on but was by no means the leader....



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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Hitler knew. He was a total control freak, a trait that would cause his downfall, and it's inconceivable that he would have not know what was going on.

Actually one of the most shameful aspects of the time is that a lot of the other western powers had an inkling too. Certainly they knew he was persecuting Jews before they knew he was planning to annex Europe.

Anti-semitism was still quite socially acceptable back then, even in England. Certainly in the later 1800's it was common to see restaurants on London or Paris with the sign "No dietary requirements" in the window, and let's just say they didn't mean Halal!


[edit on 20-7-2004 by muppet]



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 06:02 PM
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Didn't Jewish persicution start in Russia before the days of communisum. Didn't angry Russians run around and burn Jewish villiges. Why the Jewish I wonder.



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by cyberdude78
Didn't Jewish persicution start in Russia before the days of communisum. Didn't angry Russians run around and burn Jewish villiges. Why the Jewish I wonder.


The Protocols of the Elders Of Zion. Created anti-semitism throughout Europea. The book claimed that Zionists were plotting to take over the world.



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 06:24 PM
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Hitler tried to overthrow the German Government-......was imprisoned for treason-.......wrote Mein Kampf which advocated an all powerful leader, the Fuhrer, who would make all important decisions that affected the way of life in the new Germany-.......Hitler becomes Der Fuhrer-.......therefore making himself responsible for countless atrocities including genocide which were conducted during his leadership.


zero lift



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 06:26 PM
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I don't know the roots of it, but from what I gather they've been pretty much chased around all over europe for the last 1000 years. The zionist movement itself though did originate in Russia.

Why were they persecuted? Party I guess it's because they were an identifiable people, partly because they didn't recognize the Christ, partly because of the traditional Jewish links to money lending and usury. Partly they were seen as a tight nit group. All added up they make an easy scapegoat. Shakespeares Jews, such as Shylock, give an indication as to how long this image has been around..

To be fair though plenty of other peoples have been equally persecuted. Genocide has always been around. Stalin was far worse even the Nazi's in that respect.


[edit on 20-7-2004 by muppet]



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 07:22 PM
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It's of interest to note that 6 million of the victims were Jews and 5 million were Jehova's Witnesses....then add in the killing of those seen as deformed, even if they were German in some cases - Many neighbors who did not like the person next door and supported these movements would send letters to the Nazi gov't claiming that person x didn't put their swastika flag out yesterday, I think they must be Jewish, and that uually warrented enough investigation in the matter.....

I don't think I see Hitler as a "control freak" - I think its easy to make that assumption....he clearly wanted certain things, and he had them executed at his whim, but a control freak would spell everything out and make perfectly clear exactly what they want done - Hitelr didn't do this....he made a generalized statement of what he wanted and those below him inturpreted it ino an action - a clear example is The Night of the Long Knives - Hitler wanted to send a clear message to the brown shirts that they stepped over the line of the German Army (ich is ultimately what Hitler wanted and did eventually receive control of) to know that they had crossed a line of control, running rampent in the steets and distrubting activites for "the Aryans" - and so he simply made the comment that something should be done about it.....not too long after that their presence was eliminate and many of their leaders were made out to be gay and assisinated....Hitler did not direcly order nor commit these acts, but they were carried out by his "henchmen" who did what they thought was appropriate...

You could compare Hitler's orders to a nerve impulse....he sends the original signal suggesting movement, but it goes through many other chains - and for this example - gets modified into something more dramatic

Of course I'm not saying every descion was made this way....but many were - Hitler had no follow-through in his entire life....he had an idea, he went with it, and it fizzed out.....on and on and on, until he found he had a certain charisma in oratory abilites....he couldn't finish something, but he could inspire others to do it - he couldn't say it, but he could put the words in your mouth - It was all based off of the motivation of fear, which is one thing Hitler could produce at any given moment....and that's what drove his men to act out his vague "dreams"



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 08:26 PM
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The real problem is everyone wants to use Hitler to define themselves as 'better than'. Hitler was a PASSIONATE speaker, he believed with all his heart, BUT IT WAS THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED HIM. He was evil and devious sometimes, but in the end he believed blindly and became/was stupid.

Look at Hitler as that which you WORK to be better than and never assume you or anyone inately is. Try not to be blindly believing in someone who is passionate, even if they say things that sound good to you. These are some of the same problems I have with extremely religious people, they are passionate and they reject evidence in favor of faith. To my mind that is a recipe for disaster. I would hope most people would always take what their leaders take with a grain of salt.

Even take what you yourself say with all the passion in your heart with a grain of salt. This is one Im having to work on with myself.

Ideologues of any sort can be the same way, capitalists, communists, sexists, racists, and religious zealots.

Logically Hitler was a human being, perhaps with very few redeeming qualities, you have to recognize him as part of our potential. As much as I hate to admit it there may (probably will) be worse. Stalin killed 20,000,000 and he did it for no other reason than to maintain control. If nothing else you at least say Hitler believed in what he was doing, Im not sure Stalin cared or believed.



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
It's of interest to note that 6 million of the victims were Jews and 5 million were Jehova's Witnesses....


Five million Jehovahs Witnesses killed in Hitler's purge of World War 2 Europe? Odd for a budding religion formed in 1872 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and didn't become the "Jehovahs Witnesses" until 1931. Even more interesting is the Jehovahs Witnesses claim only FOUR million members WORLDWIDE now. Quite a disparity.

Jehovahs Witnesses history.



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