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The scam known as Income Taxes

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posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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I've heard all sorts of things about the IRS and income taxes... about how it is illegal and they cannot force you to pay them. It all sounded like a very nice pipe dream, but my intelligence told me that "The Man" was gonna get his money from me no matter what. I began to succumb to the whole "You can't fight city hall" mentality. Then, one day while searching the internet for info on taxes (I've been subpoenaed to appear in tax court), I came across this little meaty piece that explains, in some matter of detail and legalese, that taxes are in fact illegal.

www.supremelaw.org...

I have begun to comb through all of the rich information contained here and still cannot draw a conclusion as I am no lawyer, although it would appear straight forward. Does anyone have any info on this? Is there any web sites out there that can help me out? I am truly interested in getting to the bottom of this as I believe that I and 200 million other Americans are being scammed by our current tax code. Thanks in advance for your input.

[edit on 15-7-2004 by John bull 1]




posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:04 PM
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I found this interesting:

15. What is tax evasion and who might be guilty of this crime?

Answer: Tax evasion is the crime of evading a lawful tax. In the context of federal income taxes, this crime can only be committed by persons who have a legal liability to pay, i.e. the withholding agent. If one is not employed by the federal government, one is not subject to the Public Salary Tax Act unless one chooses to be treated as if one is a federal government employee. This is typically done by executing a valid Form W‑4.

However, as discussed above, Form W‑4 is not mandatory for workers who are not employed by the federal government. Corporations chartered by the 50 States of the Union are technically foreign corporations with respect to the IRC; they are decidedly not the federal government, and should not be regarded as if they are the federal government, particularly when they were never created by any Act of Congress.

If this is true, then why are we "forced" to sign a W-4 by our employers?



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:16 PM
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Why are we FORCED to complete a Form w-4 as a condition of our employment? As you are probably already aware, many (if not most) corporations are tax exempt in some form or another; either through tax incentives offered by the municipality and other Federal incentives. COuld it be that we, as employees, are coerced into paying "Income" taxes in lieu of these incentives? In other words, if we, as employees, refused to complete a Form W-4, would the company lose it's incentives to replace those lost tax revenues?

We really need to get to the bottom of this little scam! Aren't we permitted to ammend our tax forms for a certain period of time? Is so, then what is the statute of limitations on such an ammendment? And, could we go back and ammend them in such a way as to recoup all of our income taxes paid? And finally, if the Federal tax code is a scam, what is to be said for state, municipal, and propery taxes?



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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The IRS is not even legal according to the Constitution. There is no provision for the IRS, a private corporation to collect taxes. The Supreme Court has ruled against income taxes before. But if you volunteer, you can't complain. Also when your parents sign that birth certificate, you are officially a ward of the state. Can you say modern day slavery?


[edit on 7/14/2004 by MOOR45]



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:21 PM
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I heard it explained like this once :

Income Tax, what is income, it is money earned by business or corporations. Individuals do not receive income, they receive pay which is compensation for their labor. Therefore exempt from "income" tax.

A local radio DJ here once tried this, he's still fighting it in court ( I think ) there was a guy he had on air explaining how to get out of paying taxes and this guy claimed that if you got sued, he would pay all legal expenses.

I'll look for info.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by SupaFly
If this is true, then why are we "forced" to sign a W-4 by our employers?


Because we are being led to believe that we "have" to sign a W-4 by the government. It's really quite simple ladies and gentlement. "Government says, people do." Regardless if it's illegal the government wants your money and will spend on whatever they damn well please. Even if it has no impact on you or the economy. They spend it on what they want that benifits them.

www.taxpayer.net...



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:24 PM
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I can't believe a play on the wording ("pay" over "income") would be the loophole. Leave it up to our gov't to cover themselves.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone
I heard it explained like this once :

Income Tax, what is income, it is money earned by business or corporations. Individuals do not receive income, they receive pay which is compensation for their labor. Therefore exempt from "income" tax.

A local radio DJ here once tried this, he's still fighting it in court ( I think ) there was a guy he had on air explaining how to get out of paying taxes and this guy claimed that if you got sued, he would pay all legal expenses.

I'll look for info.

Perfectly stated. I am tax exempt and plan to stay that way



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:26 PM
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www.rense.com...

Not everything on Rense is from nutjobs. This little parlance between the author and the Federal Reserve Bank shocked the heck out of me! I think I'm starting to get a grip on why we are being extorted... To cover the Federal Reserve and prevent it from collapsing. This thing is a perpetual giant that never stops growing... all to the benefit of private banks. I definitely smell a conspiracy here.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by MOOR45
Perfectly stated. I am tax exempt and plan to stay that way


MOOR, how did you do it? Have you been hassled by anyone? Please share your experiences with us. I am losing over 35% of my income on income taxes... illegally it would seem.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:29 PM
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Income: The amount of money or its equivalent received during a period of time in exchange for labor or services, from the sale of goods or property, or as profit from financial investments.


Pay: To give money to in return for goods or services rendered: pay the cashier.
To give (money) in exchange for goods or services: paid four dollars for a hamburger; paid an hourly wage.
To discharge or settle (a debt or obligation): paying taxes; paid the bill.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:36 PM
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I know is some people that do not pay taxes in this country because they had found loopholes but I can not see how I can do this myself.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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I searched through the IRS website for laws on filing taxes for private individuals and all I came across was statutes for Small Businesses/Self-Employed persons...

www.irs.gov...=106500,00.html

They are awfully vague in this FAQ. I'm gonna keep digging.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
www.rense.com...

Not everything on Rense is from nutjobs. This little parlance between the author and the Federal Reserve Bank shocked the heck out of me! I think I'm starting to get a grip on why we are being extorted... To cover the Federal Reserve and prevent it from collapsing. This thing is a perpetual giant that never stops growing... all to the benefit of private banks. I definitely smell a conspiracy here.


The only thing I learned from that transcript is that the person at the Fed who answered was either incompetent or was amusing himself.

Debunking Myths about the Federal Reserve

I wonder if prefixing that nonsense with "Not everything on Rense is from nutjobs" will lead some people to believe it... if so, I hope Rense never advertises the sale of the Brooklyn Bridge.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:48 PM
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IRS Steps Against Noncompliance

The Internal Revenue Service has focused its efforts against noncompliance by adopting a multi-functional compliance approach:

* Helping otherwise innocent taxpayers, who have been misled by others, to rejoin the system; and
* Vigorously pursuing enforcement actions against those who continue to promote schemes or entice others to violate the law.

Regardless of the arguments used, they have two things in common:

* The arguments are consistently rejected by the courts; and
* The participants may face IRS enforcement.

The IRS has one of the highest conviction rates in federal law enforcement. In addition to serving substantial prison sentences imposed by the courts, those convicted must also pay fines, taxes, civil penalties, and, frequently, court costs.



Soooo, tell me how we're living in a democracy again???


I get how the system works:

If you don't give the theives half of what you make you get your put in the frying pan???

Indeed, nice set up... #in aholes..

Is there a place anywhere in the world that doesn't have this setup??

There was a guy in Canada I spoke with a year ago about the system setup over there..
I wish I remembered his website, it was really interesting..
All these little words and letters apparantly make a huge difference in becoming a soverign citizen..

"c" vs "C"
commercial driver vs driver
small letters in documents verses capial ones..
and on and on it goes..



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:56 PM
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here's some good article from a magazine I subscribe to:
It's free btw:

www.escapeartist.com...

www.escapeartist.com...

www.escapeartist.com...



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 02:57 PM
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I thought real hard about "exempting" myself, but I'm affraid to try it.
Any lawyers in house that would want to back me



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 03:06 PM
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Not going to go in length because I don't really care about the IRS (whereas I'm big fan of the Fed)...

The Tax Protestor FAQ
Includes
  • Constitutional Fallacies
  • Statutory Fallacies
  • Procedural Fallacies
  • Paranoid Delusions

The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments

The Tax Protestor Movement

I give this thread a big
... That's not to say that I think highly of how the IRS operates, or that I wouldn't be amused by some huge protest movement... so, tax protestors, take to the streets! Make some noise! Rawr!



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 03:12 PM
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I'm sorry that you give this a thumb's down. Not many of us are aware of all of the legal loopholes in the tax code and, as you can well see, there is a wealth of opposing and often contradictory information out there. Isn't ATS the type of place to discuss these types of things? I searched, at length, through previous threads and could find nothing on this so I thought that this would be an appropriate forum to investigate the legality of the existing tax code. You must admit, the arguments coming from both sides of the issue are compelling.

I do algree with you though... the only true method of reforming the tax system is through the democratic process. Instead of giving us the thumb's down, why not help us understand some of the pitfalls of the arguements (As you have already begun to do, with much appreciation from me I should add). Thanks in advance for your input.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by HeirToBokassa
Not going to go in length because I don't really care about the IRS (whereas I'm big fan of the Fed)...


would it be safe to assume that you work for the Feds ? just curious, won't flame or bash...



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