Muslim Brotherhood text reveals scope of radical creed

Originally posted by badw0lf
No, lets not. You take the average muslim who hates the west, and you will find they have no reason beyond they just hate us. you can ad superfluous reasoning such as political content such as this, but at the end of the day, many many people under the umbrella of islam will say that the west is bad because that is all they know.

Of course it's all they know. When, in the last ninety years, has the "West" not had a direct hand in shedding blood in the Middle East?

The median age of Iraq is 19. There is a huge section of the Iraqi population that has only the Gulf War, the sanctions, and the US invasion in 2003 to draw their opinion of "The West" from. Lebanon and the Palestinians mostly know "The West" as the people who manufacture the weapons that are then given to the Israelis to massacre Palestinians and Lebanese, and that's their experience with "The West." Your average Saudi or Egyptian knows little of the West, perhaps - except that they give those oppressive governments billions of dollars, and millions more in arms that are turned against the Egyptians and Saudis. The Afghanistan experience with "The West" has been exclusively one of attempted conquest and successful massacre since the 18th century. Someone in Indonesia knows "The West" as the people who funded and armed Suharto.

I'm afraid that hte only one here without a valid reason for hatred is you.

But it is nice to see someone acknowledge that they DO hate us also for political reasons, which give them an amount of leeway to be of said opinion... That being, Death to.. et al.

And could you blame them? "DEATH TO AMERICA!" makes a lot of sense when an Apache gunship is firing hellfire missiles into your house, after all. "DEATH TO AMERICA" has a certain ring to it, when your wedding has just been bombed. "DEATH TO AMERICA!" is a catchy slogan when your own government is using American-made chemicals to make your lungs erupt in bleeding blisters - except of course, you can't scream it with a mouthful of mustard gas, now can you?

Face it - You accept the anti-west sentiment due to your opinion that the west is evil. As do they, ragardless of right or wrong, many of them just accept it. So... Not such a far stretch, really... Argue more, now...

By the way, I'm not American... So.. heh.. yeah...

Has nothing to do with "good" or "evil." It has to do with justice and injustice. It's not a moral battle, but an ethical one.

reply to post by jonnywhite


"Teh jihadists full intended on harming others, but our military is doing is DAMNDEST not to harm the innocent."

Well, "innocent" means not found guilty of a crime / wrong doing.. ergo, every person not convicted of "terrorism" crimes.. is not a terrorist.

.. yet unknown dozens un-convicted innocent people, called "terrorists" by politicians, have been tortured, maimed, denied freedom, and assassinated by drones.. good thing they weren't "harmed" in the process!!.. whew!.. lol

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by badw0lf
No, lets not. You take the average muslim who hates the west, and you will find they have no reason beyond they just hate us. you can ad superfluous reasoning such as political content such as this, but at the end of the day, many many people under the umbrella of islam will say that the west is bad because that is all they know.

Of course it's all they know. When, in the last ninety years, has the "West" not had a direct hand in shedding blood in the Middle East?

The median age of Iraq is 19. There is a huge section of the Iraqi population that has only the Gulf War, the sanctions, and the US invasion in 2003 to draw their opinion of "The West" from. Lebanon and the Palestinians mostly know "The West" as the people who manufacture the weapons that are then given to the Israelis to massacre Palestinians and Lebanese, and that's their experience with "The West." Your average Saudi or Egyptian knows little of the West, perhaps - except that they give those oppressive governments billions of dollars, and millions more in arms that are turned against the Egyptians and Saudis. The Afghanistan experience with "The West" has been exclusively one of attempted conquest and successful massacre since the 18th century. Someone in Indonesia knows "The West" as the people who funded and armed Suharto.

I'm afraid that hte only one here without a valid reason for hatred is you.

But it is nice to see someone acknowledge that they DO hate us also for political reasons, which give them an amount of leeway to be of said opinion... That being, Death to.. et al.

And could you blame them? "DEATH TO AMERICA!" makes a lot of sense when an Apache gunship is firing hellfire missiles into your house, after all. "DEATH TO AMERICA" has a certain ring to it, when your wedding has just been bombed. "DEATH TO AMERICA!" is a catchy slogan when your own government is using American-made chemicals to make your lungs erupt in bleeding blisters - except of course, you can't scream it with a mouthful of mustard gas, now can you?

Face it - You accept the anti-west sentiment due to your opinion that the west is evil. As do they, ragardless of right or wrong, many of them just accept it. So... Not such a far stretch, really... Argue more, now...

By the way, I'm not American... So.. heh.. yeah...

Has nothing to do with "good" or "evil." It has to do with justice and injustice. It's not a moral battle, but an ethical one.

I understand that. When someone's house gets blown up, they take it personally. A lot of those people in those countries aren't educated enough to know what our mission is over there. Their gut (and wrong) reaction is to grab a gun or bomb and go after us. We try to educate and inform people what's going on, but the people we're trying to help aren't always equipped with the correct amount of common sense and education to understand. And this is a core problem, especially in afghanistan right now. Economically, the country is messed up and there's all these desparate and poor youth that dumber than nails and their first reaction to seeing an american in uniform forcing themselves into their community with guns and tanks is to become a jihadist or join the insurgents. Unfortunately, we know that's happening, but we're working night and day to educate those people and to prop them up so they're in better economic conditions and therefore reinforced enough to reject the terrorist/insurgent/violent approach that's causing this whole operation to go on and on and in fact will probably be what makes us leave afghanistan. yes, we will leave and it won't be becuase we were wrong it'll be because afghanistan is so darn backwards and ineffective that it shot itself in the foot.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Your posts are a lot less ludicrous once it's understood that you're indulging in parody.

Poor parody, but hey, everyone started somewhere.

reply to post by badw0lf


"I will state the MAJORITY of people in islamic nations do not need a reason to hate the west "

How do you know? have you lived in a so called "islamic nation"?.. were you in Iraq when US led sanctions were starving children?.. did you live in Iran under a despotic US installed regime? fight in an Iraq/ Iran war fomented by 'the west' where at least a million died? In your Baghdad Apt during "shock & awe"?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

Your posts are a lot less ludicrous once it's understood that you're indulging in parody.

Poor parody, but hey, everyone started somewhere.

Who is playing who again?

Where is my script, damnit!

I doubt everything I see today... It wouldnt surprise me at all if the "Muslim Brotherhood" was just another CIA plot to insure that we place another American/Isreal supporter into office there.. Its there to scare us and to make us believe that we have to support any actions that insure our "safety" there...

The people there want change, and they should elect whoever they want.. Leave them alone.

Originally posted by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
I doubt everything I see today... It wouldnt surprise me at all if the "Muslim Brotherhood" was just another CIA plot to insure that we place another American/Isreal supporter into office there.. Its there to scare us and to make us believe that we have to support any actions that insure our "safety" there...

The people there want change, and they should elect whoever they want.. Leave them alone.

Isn't that what palestine did and we got Hamas? How well did that work out?

reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO


Oh, the Muslim Brotherhood is a reality - they've been an active part of Egyptian political life since 1928.

However there most definitely is an ongoing drive to paint them as scary screaming fanatics out to eat babies, in an effort to preserve the Mubarak regime. And circumstantial evidence seems to point towards Israel indeed being the source of most of this propaganda.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO

 

Oh, the Muslim Brotherhood is a reality - they've been an active part of Egyptian political life since 1928.

However there most definitely is an ongoing drive to paint them as scary screaming fanatics out to eat babies, in an effort to preserve the Mubarak regime. And circumstantial evidence seems to point towards Israel indeed being the source of most of this propaganda.

It may have slipped past you and that's perfectly normal in our 60 second sound bite culture, but everyday normal americans also b elieve this. I was listening to rush limbaugh, and he's not normal by any means, but he characterized the muslim brotherhood as a dangerous islamist group that doesn't represent egypt yet with enough spin it might gain some power and really mess up things. While Rush ai'nt a normal guy, a lot of normal guys do listen to rush. And rush ain't the only one. I know a number of people who wouldn't trust the muslim brotherhood anymore than they would iran. Just trying to remind you that this isn't coming from just Israel alone.

This reminds me of those who say Israel runs america. Well, no. America just likes israel. We choose to give them aide. We choose to fight this war. We choose to assume the consequences because we believe in it. We don't do it lightly. We know it's heavy. We know the world is a tough place to live in.

And mubarak. Hmmph. I don't like him. But I don't like hte Muslim Brotherhood either. These people who criticize the muslim brotherhood don't do it to keep Mubarak in power, they do it because it represents truth. So holding the brotherhood accountable is not the same thing as pro-Mubarak.

In summary, I wnat Mubarak gone. Many of us do. We just don't think the Brotherhood is the answer.

Originally posted by jonnywhite

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO

 

Oh, the Muslim Brotherhood is a reality - they've been an active part of Egyptian political life since 1928.

However there most definitely is an ongoing drive to paint them as scary screaming fanatics out to eat babies, in an effort to preserve the Mubarak regime. And circumstantial evidence seems to point towards Israel indeed being the source of most of this propaganda.

It may have slipped past you and that's perfectly normal in our 60 second sound bite culture, but everyday normal americans also b elieve this. I was listening to rush limbaugh, and he's not normal by any means, but he characterized the muslim brotherhood as a dangerous islamist group that doesn't represent egypt yet with enough spin it might gain some power and really mess up things. While Rush ai'nt a normal guy, a lot of normal guys do listen to rush. And rush ain't the only one. I know a number of people who wouldn't trust the muslim brotherhood anymore than they would iran. Just trying to remind you that this isn't coming from just Israel alone.

This reminds me of those who say Israel runs america. Well, no. America just likes israel. We choose to give them aide. We choose to fight this war. We choose to assume the consequences because we believe in it.

edit on 9-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

America's conservative talkers and media outlets tend to cleave to whatever Israel claims. it's not me claiming "Israel runs America" just that our media heads are uncritical cowards and, in many cases, open haters and bigots.

So if Jpost or Haaretz or the IDF announces tomorrow, "Yassir Arafat is back fro mthe dead and is raising a Muslim zombie cannibal army!" I guarantee it'll be headlining on CNN within two hours, while Glen and Rush will be tying Muslim zombie into their Obama werewolves or whatever.

reply to post by jonnywhite

I understand that. When someone's house gets blown up, they take it personally.

Well [snip] yeah..!!!
Wouldn't you???

The US isn't there for peace..
The military demands constant war for profit..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

I understand that. When someone's house gets blown up, they take it personally.

Well [snip] yeah..!!!
Wouldn't you???

The US isn't there for peace..
The military demands constant war for profit..

Incredibly convenient for you that you leave the rest of my post out.

See this is how the world works. 60 second sound bites. This is how people think nowadays.

Originally posted by jonnywhite

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

I understand that. When someone's house gets blown up, they take it personally.

Well [snip] yeah..!!!
Wouldn't you???

The US isn't there for peace..
The military demands constant war for profit..

Incredibly convenient for you that you leave the rest of my post out.

See this is how the world works. 60 second sound bites. This is how people think nowadays.

edit on 9-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Well in all fairness, that's all that matters to most humans..
You blow up and kill their family for NO reason and they are going to be pissed..

Ever wondered what would happen if the same was done in the US??
Nah, bet you haven't..

I don't think anyone wants anything like Muslim Brotherhood to run that country... BUT.... We shouldnt be envolved.. The main reason we are hated around the world is b/c we preach freedom and democracy but support dictators and harsh rule.. Saddam and Ayatollah for example... People in Iraq dont like us b/c we supported a revolution against Saddam when he didnt benefit our interests anymore, but then abandoned the uprising which resulted in Saddam's mass murder and imprisonment.... Those kinds of actions worldwide give our country a bad name.
.
Personaly, I dont believe the official 9/11 story but if it were true, the terrorists wouldnt hate us b/c we are "free." They would hate us b/c of our unwanted envolvement with their culture. We take their natural resources, and we screw with their political elections...

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by jonnywhite

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

I understand that. When someone's house gets blown up, they take it personally.

Well [snip] yeah..!!!
Wouldn't you???

The US isn't there for peace..
The military demands constant war for profit..

Incredibly convenient for you that you leave the rest of my post out.

See this is how the world works. 60 second sound bites. This is how people think nowadays.

edit on 9-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Well in all fairness, that's all that matters to most humans..
You blow up and kill their family for NO reason and they are going to be pissed..

Ever wondered what would happen if the same was done in the US??
Nah, bet you haven't..

So going after terrorists and militants and dictators is NO reason, eh?

You can't compare military practices and police practices. These are different agencies and different ballgames entirely. War is ugly, I'm not denying that. But things that happen during war don't happen in domestic situations. In war your (more powerful) opponent twists every rule and creed to survive. Everything happens too fast for courts. If we tried to prosecute everything that happens in war we'd be prosecuting the iraq war for the next 1000 years. Anyway, I'm done for tonight.

Peace and prayers to everyone.

reply to post by jonnywhite

You can't compare military practices and police practices. These are different agencies and different ballgames ALTOGETHER. War is ugly, I'm not denying that. Things that happen during war don't happen in domestic situations. In war your opponent twists every rule and creed to survive. Everything happens too fast for courts. If we tried to prosecute everything that happens in war we'd be prosecuting the iraq war for the next 1000 years. Anyway, I'm done for tonight.

Yeah, all good stuff mate but the facts are different..
Apparently 19 mostly Saudi Arabian highjackers crashed 4 planes in the US killing 3000 odd US citizens..
SO, the US invaded Afghanistan and killed hundreds of thousands in retaliation but left Saudi Arabia in peace..

How does that work for you??

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

You can't compare military practices and police practices. These are different agencies and different ballgames ALTOGETHER. War is ugly, I'm not denying that. Things that happen during war don't happen in domestic situations. In war your opponent twists every rule and creed to survive. Everything happens too fast for courts. If we tried to prosecute everything that happens in war we'd be prosecuting the iraq war for the next 1000 years. Anyway, I'm done for tonight.

Yeah, all good stuff mate but the facts are different..
Apparently 19 mostly Saudi Arabian highjackers crashed 4 planes in the US killing 3000 odd US citizens..
SO, the US invaded Afghanistan and killed hundreds of thousands in retaliation but left Saudi Arabia in peace..

How does that work for you??

Goodnight.

Originally posted by jonnywhite

Originally posted by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
I doubt everything I see today... It wouldnt surprise me at all if the "Muslim Brotherhood" was just another CIA plot to insure that we place another American/Isreal supporter into office there.. Its there to scare us and to make us believe that we have to support any actions that insure our "safety" there...

The people there want change, and they should elect whoever they want.. Leave them alone.

Isn't that what palestine did and we got Hamas? How well did that work out?

edit on 9-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

It would have worked out ok if US and or "world power" "leadership", so called, respected the will of the people.. kinda like democracy.

Not everybody thinks US / Federal Reserve / dear GOP & DNC leader input is best for them.. if a swath of folks decide by vote that failed bankrupt leadership, stale ideas and epic failures of the past.. offer zero solutions for their specific (local) future problems.. I say good for them, they're more in tune with reality than those who march like zombies to cast votes for left Vs right / dumb failure Vs dumber failure.

BTW.. how has Hamas being elected by strangers 1000s of miles away made a difference in your life?

Originally posted by jonnywhite

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

You can't compare military practices and police practices. These are different agencies and different ballgames ALTOGETHER. War is ugly, I'm not denying that. Things that happen during war don't happen in domestic situations. In war your opponent twists every rule and creed to survive. Everything happens too fast for courts. If we tried to prosecute everything that happens in war we'd be prosecuting the iraq war for the next 1000 years. Anyway, I'm done for tonight.

Yeah, all good stuff mate but the facts are different..
Apparently 19 mostly Saudi Arabian highjackers crashed 4 planes in the US killing 3000 odd US citizens..
SO, the US invaded Afghanistan and killed hundreds of thousands in retaliation but left Saudi Arabia in peace..

How does that work for you??

Goodnight.

Yeah, Goodnight..
Facts are harder to answer than fiction..