14yr Old Rape Victim Beaten to Death by Islamic Court

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by Honor93

 

I'm on your side. Read the post carefully it's Inforeal that made those statements and I was responding to them.

i get your point that's why i was 'tender' with my comment.
we are responsible for ourselves ... even when led down the lesser path of virtue.
simply offering a reminder.
barking at the trolls only creates more chaos, which is precisely why i ignored the original challenge.

the best way for us to deny the trolls/misdirections is really to ignore it ... it's kinda kin to screaming fire in an empty building ... what's the point?

i am trying to ignore them also and i agree, it's not easy but we need to practice restraint ... just didn't want to see you get flustered over unrelated nonsense, this story is bad enough all on its own.

Way to castigate the "deep south" when in your follow up post you say it happens everywhere. I'm sure it happens in the "deep north", "deep west", and every metropolitan area in the US.

Originally posted by MavRck
Stuff like that happens in the deep south too, just not involving the courts stoning anyone to death.

Instead, the case is kept under wraps, and the accused walks away into his pent-house and the family continues to suffer thinking their daughter was a whore.

While this disturbs me to the point of 'man on fire', I keep in mind... this isn't every arabian, this isn't every muslim.

The judicial system is the real target.

How does this logic/mindset come to be the 'norm' ?

I want to hear from the side of the accusing. I want to know why/how and in what shape or form this can be seen as logical or the right thing to do.

edit on 8-2-2011 by MavRck because: (no reason given)

461 replies of an epic pissing match and still nobody has asked about or produced a second source for this story?

My post was in response to someone claiming this or that Islamic culture is backward.

I don’t justify those mad-dogs actions by history, that’s not my point.

What they did is inexcusable

I wrote the post to illustrate two things:
One is that ALL cultures have evil, ignorant people. When someone in the West does a horrible deed should we then indict the whole culture, as people are indicting ALL OF ISLAM over this?

And that many of the backward countries in the world are backward because their culture was interrupted by oppression, when that happens progress is stifled.

I posted the historical FACT that Islam helped Europe out of the Dark Ages because bigots on this forum always are saying Muslims are backward and uncivilized

Bottom line these individuals who did these crimes to this girl aught to be executed for crimes of rape, murder, and corruption.

But every time an atrocity happens in a Muslim country the bigots blame the whole of Islamic civilization for the crime.

Is that logical, just, or right?

That’s the problem with threads like this.

You’re entitled to your bigotry, and I am entitled to challenge you.

I am not a troll, whatever that is, or any thing other than an individual who believes in justice for all.

reply to post by The time lord

What did Jesus say about them?

What does the New Testament say now?

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17

Originally posted by Skyfloating
461 replies of an epic pissing match and still nobody has asked about or produced a second source for this story?

ok, i'll bite ... what do you consider a reliable source?
do any of these qualify?
www.globalpost.com...
www.thepeninsulaqatar.com...
en.news.maktoob.com...
www.jihadwatch.org...
www.google.com...
www.foxnews.com...
news1.ghananation.com...
www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by inforeal
I wrote the post to illustrate two things:
One is that ALL cultures have evil, ignorant people. When someone in the West does a horrible deed should we then indict the whole culture, as people are indicting ALL OF ISLAM over this?

yes, all cultures have issues --> no need pointing out the obvious.
whether we should or not is irrelevant because that doesn't change the fact that it does and will continue on both sides of the pond.
indian, buddhist, envangelical, christians, jews, catholics, pagans, occultists ... you pick any of 'em or add one of your own, they've all suffered similar persecution ... islam is not special in that regard.
And your lead comment has -0-, zip, nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

And that many of the backward countries in the world are backward because their culture was interrupted by oppression, when that happens progress is stifled.

so, which part of this message relates to Hena and the atrocities she suffered?

I posted the historical FACT that Islam helped Europe out of the Dark Ages because bigots on this forum always are saying Muslims are backward and uncivilized

there is a time and place for everything ... the above, is out of place entirely.

it is my hope that the human compassion factor surpasses all other nonsense illustrated by these acts. there is no acceptable excuse ... may Hena finally rest in peace.

reply to post by Honor93


man i am tired of this thread, i am as upset or even more upset than you are for what they have done to the girl.

i've been following since the beginning and you foolishly assume that i can't read.
First, in several stories it has been reported the child was convicted of adultery ... regardless of your argument. And, even if what you say is true ... mother, father, rapist, wife = 4 witnesses ... what's the problem understanding that?

what i was saying is according to sharia, in order to convict a couple with adultery you need 4 witnesses, they (the four of them) MUST see the male penis into the female's vagaina, i don't see how this is possible unless people are having sex in public, this is how strict and hard to proove adultery in Islam.

you say it was really easy for the court to convict the girl with adultery because they had enough witnesses, mother, father, rapist, wife... how in hell could the girl's cousin rape her if her father and mother were there?! , they watched the whole thing up untill he put his penis in her vagaina?! , maybe the parents caught them in action, even then they must see his penis in her vagaina, the rapist and the girl are not witnesses, if they were accused they can't be witnesses, they can confess though, but this didn't happen, the girl accussed her cousin of raping her.

not sure what you mean by wife in your proposed witnesses list, do you mean the girl?

if that Islamic court was actually following Sharia they should have investegated the case according to sharia law and ended up punishing the rapist not the girl, its very clear to me that the court didn't, it was enough for the court to hear from the girl's family and the rapist himself.

the senario:

the girl was raped by her cousin, she told her family, her family blamed her in the first place (thats thier honor been taken - "Culture" not religion), they brought her cousin to check, he might have said something like she seduced him, because women are treated like insects there they beaten her untill she was unconscious (i feel sick), they wanted her dead beacuse she didn't maintain her virginity and brought shame to the family.

the Q doesn't address the Male as perpetrator ... and that is a problem.

read the following verse:

24:2] The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty

it says the adulteress and the ADULTERER

The verses also indicate 100 lashes due each party ... not just the girl --> yet, she's ordered 101 and he goes into hiding ???

yes, i am too asking why? i am asking if they follow Sharia why did they punish the girl and not her cousin (the rapist)?! he is an adulterer too, the verse above says he must be punished, they didn't only add one extra lash, they didn't punish the guy at all, tell me now, do they follow sharia?!

This child was not dead before the lashes began. Beaten yes but not dead, so don't assume that was the intent of the family -- this cannot be proven. (however, one cannot deny honor killings are encouraged in Shari'a)

After she was raped, the rapist and his family then beat her until she was unconscious.

by his family, they mean, HER parents, brothers, and maybe HIS parents and brothers, or any other cousins.

she messed with the honor of the whole family, i know you will never know this as an American.

this is culture and not religion, Islam is against this, Islam says prove the adultery, bring the parties, stone or wipe. period

honor killings are totally rejected by Islam, don't aruge this, i know it more than you do, don't forget that i am an ex-muslim and Middle Eastern, it is like me arguing you what you can buy with one dollar in your city while i never been to your city.


every law can be manipulated, islam is no exception, but the fact that it is not allowed to change a letter in Quran, and Quran being the source of Islamic laws, truth wether Ugly or good stays there for anyone to see, this is a major challenge facing Islamic scholars, no matter how they try to promote Islam as the religion of peace Quran itself punches them on the face and they can't change it, manipulation in Islam was done to the Interpretations of Quran and in Hadith (second source of Sharia Law) during the early ages of Islam, #uck islam i dont want to talk about it, it is a sick religion, if you have a lot of free time then go study islam to see how all this Sharia Law works, i had my share and am done with it.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Oh, God Almighty! I cannot believe barbarianism still occurs in the 21st century. And if any Islamic Court infiltrates this last nation standing for freedom, I won't be happy. How can I praise the Lord if children suffer injustices by old farts who cannot control themselves? Punish the older women who put up with men. Women are the ones who are supposed to protect the children where men cannot. No one should abuse stupid people(?!) for the sake of their religion! And who told these people that these outmoded traditions must continue today? If God, the Allah, came back, he/she/it wouldn't be sick but more disgusted.

This reminds me of a story I read about an Amish girl named Mary who was repeatedly raped by her own brothers and ended up being labelled a whore while her brothers "prayed away their sins".

Sexual Abuse In The Amish Community

Here are some quotes from the article:

Through the years, by Mary's account, she was raped by several different attackers. But one abused her more often than the others -- her brother Johnny. Johnny, one of Mary's eight brothers, began assaulting her when he was 12 and she was 6. The assaults continued into her teen years, she said.

Irene Garrett left the Amish community to marry an outsider and has written several books on Amish life. Sadly, Garrett says, Mary's plight is not an isolated case.

Mary said her mother told her, "You don't fight hard enough and you don't pray hard enough." Mary said her mother made her feel as if the assaults were her fault. "Every time I would talk about this she would say that they have already confessed in church and you're just being unforgiving," she said.

The community viewed Mary, not Johnny, as the villain, because they had already punished Johnny within the church, according to Garrett. "He went through that process. He was sorry for what he had done, so to the Amish he was forgiven and it should be forgotten," she said.

I don't think this has to do anything with religion. It's just warped cultures who use religion as an excuse, a cover to hide behind. It doesn't make sense to us because we're outsiders looking in. As outsiders, all we can do is speculate and judge, but other cultures are doing exactly the same thing to us.

Originally posted by h_jordan
reply to post by Honor93

 

man i am tired of this thread, i am as upset or even more upset than you are for what they have done to the girl.

yet, you keep returning and please don't assume, only fools follow that route.

what i was saying is according to sharia, in order to convict a couple with adultery you need 4 witnesses, they (the four of them) MUST see the male penis into the female's vagaina, i don't see how this is possible unless people are having sex in public, this is how strict and hard to proove adultery in Islam.

i wasn't there and i'm guessing you weren't either. However, a 'witness' testifies (speaks) to what they claim they saw or heard ... hardly any proof there. Here in the US, eye-witnesses are the least reliable of all.

you say it was really easy for the court to convict the girl with adultery because they had enough witnesses, mother, father, rapist, wife... how in hell could the girl's cousin rape her if her father and mother were there?!

, they watched the whole thing up untill he put his penis in her vagaina?!

, maybe the parents caught them in action, even then they must see his penis in her vagaina, the rapist and the girl are not witnesses, if they were accused they can't be witnesses, they can confess though, but this didn't happen, the girl accussed her cousin of raping her.

actually, i never said any such thing ~ "it was really easy for the court to convict the girl with adultery" ~ i said multiple news sources confirmed she was convicted of adultery. also, i listed those as a possible response to your 4 witness claim ... however, after reading more about it, it appears 4 male witnesses are required ... www.allaboutmuhammad.com...
i am not arguing IF witnesses were provided, the story doesn't say and neither of us, knows for sure.

such witnesses are not as uncommon as you imply ... some of us are quite familiar with gang rape: ie, multiple participants and witnesses ... it happens more than you'd care to admit obviously.
besides, can't you let go of a bone once it's been cleanly picked-over?
what's the point of arguing a fact that isn't even included in the story?
doesn't change the fact ... this is still a perversion of a standard Islamic punishment.

not sure what you mean by wife in your proposed witnesses list, do you mean the girl?

IF you read any of the stories, the 'wife' is the rapists' and prior victim (at age 13) who participated in the beating.

if that Islamic court was actually following Sharia they should have investegated the case according to sharia law and ended up punishing the rapist not the girl, its very clear to me that the court didn't, it was enough for the court to hear from the girl's family and the rapist himself.

why do you assume anyone believes the case is consistent with Shari'a Law?
i never said such but i will say again, it is most certainly influenced by Shari'a.
According to Shari'a, BOTH parties should have been punished (not just him, yet you are emphasizing a witness detail?)
Also, according to Shari'a, the victim (Hena) isn't permitted to testify, period.
nor is any non-muslim that may have evidence of her defense.
www.allaboutmuhammad.com...

the senario:

the girl was raped by her cousin, she told her family, her family blamed her in the first place (thats thier honor been taken - "Culture" not religion), they brought her cousin to check, he might have said something like she seduced him, because women are treated like insects there they beaten her untill she was unconscious (i feel sick), they wanted her dead beacuse she didn't maintain her virginity and brought shame to the family.

interestingly creative mind you've got there. There is NO honor among thieves ... don't care how you classify it, culture or religion ... either way, they're thieves and they're wrong and they have no honor to lose.

yes, i am too asking why? i am asking if they follow Sharia why did they punish the girl and not her cousin (the rapist)?! he is an adulterer too, the verse above says he must be punished, they didn't only add one extra lash, they didn't punish the guy at all, tell me now, do they follow sharia?!

did they follow implicitly? of course not but this does not absolve the impact Shari'a has upon their poor decisions.

The rest of this nonsense isn't deserving a response. Clearly, you didn't listen to the interview posted a few pages back (you really should)
His family = her family or are you confused how that works?

she messed with the honor of the whole family, i know you will never know this as an American.

as previously stated, there is NO honor among thieves, regardless of culture.
you sure assume an awful lot for someone who knows very little.

this is culture and not religion, Islam is against this, Islam says prove the adultery, bring the parties, stone or wipe. period

honor killings are totally rejected by Islam, don't aruge this, i know it more than you do, don't forget that i am an ex-muslim and Middle Eastern, it is like me arguing you what you can buy with one dollar in your city while i never been to your city.

you may be x-muslim but to me that simply means you are almost as misled as the next. i will not argue basics available to anyone who chooses to read (link provided above) regarding your last sentence, just how many of those Islamic states have you lived in as a resident? not just passed through on biz or pleasure.

every law can be manipulated, islam is no exception, but the fact that it is not allowed to change a letter in Quran, and Quran being the source of Islamic laws, truth wether Ugly or good stays there for anyone to see, this is a major challenge facing Islamic scholars, no matter how they try to promote Islam as the religion of peace Quran itself punches them on the face and they can't change it, manipulation in Islam was done to the Interpretations of Quran and in Hadith (second source of Sharia Law) during the early ages of Islam, #uck islam i dont want to talk about it, it is a sick religion, if you have a lot of free time then go study islam to see how all this Sharia Law works, i had my share and am done with it.

see, this is the double speak that gets you folks in trouble every time.
you say you are done with it but keep returning to explain it ... misleading just a bit?

so, are you saying Shari'a had no relevance to this outcome and is being unfairly blamed ... or ... Shari'a may be the foundation (whether perverted or not) of such a morbid resolve?
one cannot fix a problem until it is first, identified.
hey thanks but no thanks, i'd rather study nature, it's much more interesting.

edit: psssst ... as i believe everyone deserves venting space with like minds ... you may find this refreshing: www.apostatesofislam.com... be well, be kind and above all be yourself.
** peace to you and yours **

reply to post by Honor93


I am afraid it is you who are being disingenuous. If you haven’t read the posts that blame "barbaric Islam" and Sharia for that girl’s death and not isolated criminals then you are blind, or haven’t read any thing on this forum.

I point out intelligently with clear proofs not emotional tirades of hatred, ignorance and avoidance, the facts that people are slandering and defaming a religion with far over a billion adherents and the fastest growing religion in the world, when a few who are nominally attached to the religion commit a crime then all of Islam is blamed by dangerous ignorant bigots.

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by Honor93

 

I am afraid it is you who are being disingenuous. If you haven’t read the posts that blame "barbaric Islam" and Sharia for that girl’s death and not isolated criminals then you are blind, or haven’t read any thing on this forum.

I point out intelligently with clear proofs not emotional tirades of hatred, ignorance and avoidance, the facts that people are slandering and defaming a religion with far over a billion adherents and the fastest growing religion in the world, when a few who are nominally attached to the religion commit a crime then all of Islam is blamed by dangerous ignorant bigots.

ummm, excuse me but do you start off most of your posts with a personal attack?
for the record, i am near legally blind, does that make a difference?
i've read every entry and contributed quite a few ... it would seem you need a review if you are questioning my position on the subject.

Actually, i haven't flung any such verbiage, accusations or inuendo around at all.
I am actively discussing points of this event but if all you're gonna do is sling mudd, find another target.
Islam is not just a religion ... most everyone knows that. care to contribute something of value?

here, try this ...
you stated earlier

People here don’t want to hear that a Muslim country has common sense and don’t anymore want to follow archaic and pre-modern laws.

do tell, which Shari'a specific laws of today are different than they were say 1000yrs ago?
please, enlighten this ignorant american.

btw, i wasn't discussing the criminals (as you put it) ... i was discussing the lack of balance, compassion and utter insanity in the behavior, the punishment applied in comparison to Shari'a standards and the influence of Shari'a in this most horrific display of human inequity.
care to join this conversation or just toss daggers at whomever?

reply to post by inforeal

ohhh, i get it now ... just read through all your posts.
Shall i offer you a gold star for denouncing the horrible behavior of the criminals involved?

yes, i noticed.
you are a devout muslim who is appalled by these acts, however, if they had been consistent with Shari'a law then that would be acceptable, correct?

reply to post by inforeal


Until moderate muslims take control and oust those whom bring shame to the Religion off Islam, All followers of that religon will be tarnished with the same brush.

I understand that it might not be right, but that happens with religions. Which tries to promote itself as peacefull religion, when disgusting incidents like this occur.

That girl did not deserve what happenned to her. Not ony was she forcefully violated by some old dirty man, she was then beaten up by his family,and then killed. No words nor no excuses can defend what those disgusting things which is called Humans did to her. They are not even human.

If they are not brought to count for thier actions, another nail in the coffin for Islam that is for sure.

If the people of the land can stand by and let this happen, if the parents, friends and family can be content with this outcome, no amount of court justice will do any good.

Their is this miconception that the courts need to set the precedent and show the way of justice and good. In an ideal world the people would be responsible for societies ideals and values, not courts and judges.
This is the same society that practices bride burning, do not forget. It is backwardness.
Sharia law is what the people have made it. If it has taken on a life of its own and become oppressive in unjust, it is because the people have allowed it.

These days I see fewer and fewer good people, people who would stand up in the face of such things. Just look at the practice of human trafficking. One cannot get much more evil than that, it happens everywhere, and it is growing.

Originally posted by Honor93

ok, i'll bite ... what do you consider a reliable source?
do any of these qualify?

Yes, they do actually. Finally. Thank you. A lot of these types of threads use as sources tabloid-style magazines. But if even BBC carries it, its most likely legitimate.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You and many others seem to be falling for this propaganda which is meant to steer christian hatred towards islam instead of focussing on the right royal b+tt f+++ing we are all getting from bankers and our own self serving puppet governments.

This anti islamic diatribe is on the increase via junk news and hate e-mail chains all perpetrated by those who benefit from different parts of humanity hating each other. They can continue their plundering of our wealth, introduction of poison in our food, manipulation of our health for big bucks and of course their horrific war campaigns in the middle east cos hey, sh!t like this helps public opinion to support the war against the evil muslims.

Do not be fooled by this crap, keep full attention on The Rothchilds,.Wall Street crooks, Zionist Neocons and fascist governments.These are the ones that are making OUR lives a misery, not Islam.

PEACE,
RK

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
[/url]

 

You and many others seem to be falling for this propaganda which is meant to steer christian hatred towards islam instead of focussing on the right royal b+tt f+++ing we are all getting from bankers and our own self serving puppet governments.

This anti islamic diatribe is on the increase via junk news and hate e-mail chains all perpetrated by those who benefit from different parts of humanity hating each other. They can continue their plundering of our wealth, introduction of poison in our food, manipulation of our health for big bucks and of course their horrific war campaigns in the middle east cos hey, sh!t like this helps public opinion to support the war against the evil muslims.

Do not be fooled by this crap, keep full attention on The Rothchilds,.Wall Street crooks, Zionist Neocons and fascist governments.These are the ones that are making OUR lives a misery, not Islam.

PEACE,
RK

And im not fooled by your crap.

You attempt to divert attention from a very important issue, such as violence perpertrated in the name of religion and spin it into an anti-Western government rant.

You want us to not care when an innocent child from across the world is raped and killed? You would have us be so selfish to only care about what our government is doing to us, as opposed to what an even more vile government is doing to even more innocent children?

Take your PTB conspiracy to another board where people are selfish and only care about themselves.