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Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by Honor93
I'm on your side. Read the post carefully it's Inforeal that made those statements and I was responding to them.
Originally posted by MavRck
Stuff like that happens in the deep south too, just not involving the courts stoning anyone to death.
Instead, the case is kept under wraps, and the accused walks away into his pent-house and the family continues to suffer thinking their daughter was a whore.
While this disturbs me to the point of 'man on fire', I keep in mind... this isn't every arabian, this isn't every muslim.
The judicial system is the real target.
How does this logic/mindset come to be the 'norm' ?
I want to hear from the side of the accusing. I want to know why/how and in what shape or form this can be seen as logical or the right thing to do.edit on 8-2-2011 by MavRck because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Skyfloating
461 replies of an epic pissing match and still nobody has asked about or produced a second source for this story?
Originally posted by inforeal
I wrote the post to illustrate two things:
One is that ALL cultures have evil, ignorant people. When someone in the West does a horrible deed should we then indict the whole culture, as people are indicting ALL OF ISLAM over this?
And that many of the backward countries in the world are backward because their culture was interrupted by oppression, when that happens progress is stifled.
I posted the historical FACT that Islam helped Europe out of the Dark Ages because bigots on this forum always are saying Muslims are backward and uncivilized
i've been following since the beginning and you foolishly assume that i can't read.
First, in several stories it has been reported the child was convicted of adultery ... regardless of your argument. And, even if what you say is true ... mother, father, rapist, wife = 4 witnesses ... what's the problem understanding that?
the Q doesn't address the Male as perpetrator ... and that is a problem.
The verses also indicate 100 lashes due each party ... not just the girl --> yet, she's ordered 101 and he goes into hiding ???
This child was not dead before the lashes began. Beaten yes but not dead, so don't assume that was the intent of the family -- this cannot be proven. (however, one cannot deny honor killings are encouraged in Shari'a)
Through the years, by Mary's account, she was raped by several different attackers. But one abused her more often than the others -- her brother Johnny. Johnny, one of Mary's eight brothers, began assaulting her when he was 12 and she was 6. The assaults continued into her teen years, she said.
Irene Garrett left the Amish community to marry an outsider and has written several books on Amish life. Sadly, Garrett says, Mary's plight is not an isolated case.
Mary said her mother told her, "You don't fight hard enough and you don't pray hard enough." Mary said her mother made her feel as if the assaults were her fault. "Every time I would talk about this she would say that they have already confessed in church and you're just being unforgiving," she said.
The community viewed Mary, not Johnny, as the villain, because they had already punished Johnny within the church, according to Garrett. "He went through that process. He was sorry for what he had done, so to the Amish he was forgiven and it should be forgotten," she said.
Originally posted by h_jordan
reply to post by Honor93
man i am tired of this thread, i am as upset or even more upset than you are for what they have done to the girl.
what i was saying is according to sharia, in order to convict a couple with adultery you need 4 witnesses, they (the four of them) MUST see the male penis into the female's vagaina, i don't see how this is possible unless people are having sex in public, this is how strict and hard to proove adultery in Islam.
you say it was really easy for the court to convict the girl with adultery because they had enough witnesses, mother, father, rapist, wife... how in hell could the girl's cousin rape her if her father and mother were there?! , they watched the whole thing up untill he put his penis in her vagaina?! , maybe the parents caught them in action, even then they must see his penis in her vagaina, the rapist and the girl are not witnesses, if they were accused they can't be witnesses, they can confess though, but this didn't happen, the girl accussed her cousin of raping her.
not sure what you mean by wife in your proposed witnesses list, do you mean the girl?
if that Islamic court was actually following Sharia they should have investegated the case according to sharia law and ended up punishing the rapist not the girl, its very clear to me that the court didn't, it was enough for the court to hear from the girl's family and the rapist himself.
the girl was raped by her cousin, she told her family, her family blamed her in the first place (thats thier honor been taken - "Culture" not religion), they brought her cousin to check, he might have said something like she seduced him, because women are treated like insects there they beaten her untill she was unconscious (i feel sick), they wanted her dead beacuse she didn't maintain her virginity and brought shame to the family.
did they follow implicitly? of course not but this does not absolve the impact Shari'a has upon their poor decisions.
yes, i am too asking why? i am asking if they follow Sharia why did they punish the girl and not her cousin (the rapist)?! he is an adulterer too, the verse above says he must be punished, they didn't only add one extra lash, they didn't punish the guy at all, tell me now, do they follow sharia?!
she messed with the honor of the whole family, i know you will never know this as an American.
this is culture and not religion, Islam is against this, Islam says prove the adultery, bring the parties, stone or wipe. period
honor killings are totally rejected by Islam, don't aruge this, i know it more than you do, don't forget that i am an ex-muslim and Middle Eastern, it is like me arguing you what you can buy with one dollar in your city while i never been to your city.
every law can be manipulated, islam is no exception, but the fact that it is not allowed to change a letter in Quran, and Quran being the source of Islamic laws, truth wether Ugly or good stays there for anyone to see, this is a major challenge facing Islamic scholars, no matter how they try to promote Islam as the religion of peace Quran itself punches them on the face and they can't change it, manipulation in Islam was done to the Interpretations of Quran and in Hadith (second source of Sharia Law) during the early ages of Islam, #uck islam i dont want to talk about it, it is a sick religion, if you have a lot of free time then go study islam to see how all this Sharia Law works, i had my share and am done with it.
Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by Honor93
I am afraid it is you who are being disingenuous. If you haven’t read the posts that blame "barbaric Islam" and Sharia for that girl’s death and not isolated criminals then you are blind, or haven’t read any thing on this forum.
I point out intelligently with clear proofs not emotional tirades of hatred, ignorance and avoidance, the facts that people are slandering and defaming a religion with far over a billion adherents and the fastest growing religion in the world, when a few who are nominally attached to the religion commit a crime then all of Islam is blamed by dangerous ignorant bigots.
People here don’t want to hear that a Muslim country has common sense and don’t anymore want to follow archaic and pre-modern laws.
Originally posted by Honor93
ok, i'll bite ... what do you consider a reliable source?
do any of these qualify?
Originally posted by Rigel Kent
You and many others seem to be falling for this propaganda which is meant to steer christian hatred towards islam instead of focussing on the right royal b+tt f+++ing we are all getting from bankers and our own self serving puppet governments.
This anti islamic diatribe is on the increase via junk news and hate e-mail chains all perpetrated by those who benefit from different parts of humanity hating each other. They can continue their plundering of our wealth, introduction of poison in our food, manipulation of our health for big bucks and of course their horrific war campaigns in the middle east cos hey, sh!t like this helps public opinion to support the war against the evil muslims.
Do not be fooled by this crap, keep full attention on The Rothchilds,.Wall Street crooks, Zionist Neocons and fascist governments.These are the ones that are making OUR lives a misery, not Islam.