14yr Old Rape Victim Beaten to Death by Islamic Court

Originally posted by DCPatriot

Originally posted by MavRck
Stuff like that happens in the deep south too, just not involving the courts stoning anyone to death.
Instead, the case is kept under wraps, and the accused walks away into his pent-house and the family continues to suffer thinking their daughter was a whore.

WTF do you mean by "stuff like that"?
The little girl was beaten and then died while being whipped you dumb a$$!
That didn't happen in the 'deep south' or anywhere in the USA.

edit on 2/9/2011 by DCPatriot because: (no reason given)

You are once again forgetting that we (US) have different laws and we are a new country. Moreoever this whole thing is a propoganda BS which is not reported accurately as many have already uncovered on this thread. You cannot clap with one hand. There's definitely more to this news which we dont know about.

We do not punish the victims in the states though there are thousands of reported/unreported cases of Rapes occuring on a daily basis within the US. We do not kill the convict that easily. We have lawyers to bail them out with less severe punishment. We talk about justice system of other countries but we in the US punish kids and adults alike by over feeding them and loading them up with chemicals in the processed/frozen and canned foods. How many kids/adults die every year in the US just because of that? I just hate to see us being and becoming nothing more than hypocrits. We read such news on the web and watch/listen to it on TV/Radio in the US but we are not shocked anymore since its a daily occurence. The reality is that since we do not see the victim die due to punishment by the law so we really feel bad for a moment and then change the channel to something that suits us. Either way if a victim is punished or not, they are half dead from within due to the act of Rape.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


People are not animals. What surprises me more is that you don't have any problems with the system that allows such killngs. You somehow accept the fatalism, that there is nothing you can do about it.

Not even an outcry or condemnation for such an evil act. You don't even accept the fact that it is an EVIL ACT.

That really is troubling most of all others.

reply to post by notsoperfect


You know whats troubling to me? That your brain works (or not) in such a way that you think I do not have a problem with that.

I think Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc., are barbaric. All of them. Not just Islam. I said earlier in the thread that I found their misogyny, their lack of respect for choice and free will, to be a problem. You can add Mormonism to that list too. There really arent many religions I have any respect or love for based on their humanism.

YOUR problem, apparently, is an inability to read, or a selective ability to remember.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Stopterrystops

 

Yes, because he or she (likely a he) ended the spectacle quickly, they are kind. Its far crueler to throw the small stones, aimed at the body to draw the suffering out and make it last longer. For someone to grab a cinderblock, and hit her in the head, clearly, they did not want her to suffer. You are supposed to use stones that will not allow the person to die in one shot. Its supposed to be torture. Not just death.

It is nice to live in a world where you can prevent the execution of your friends and family, or other human beings by long torturous means. But not everyone has that luxury. In those cultures, there is nothing you could do if they decided to stone to death your best friend. No way you could prevent it. Sometimes all you have to offer another being is a fast and relatively painless end, and yes, it is a kindness to do so.

edit on 9-2-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)

how utterly disgusting of you to view an act of mercy as some warped sense of kindness.
May you soul find peace someday.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

How cruel and sick to say it is a kindness to throw a brick at her. How about run over to the girl and cover her up with your own body to prevent her further injury. Isn't this what Jesus Christ did in his life and taught to do the same?

The poor raped girl was half buried in the ground, and had laughing spectators chucking stones at her. She was dying very slowly and painfully.

According to a poster earlier in this thread, this murder was being organised by a group of armed men, people had already tried to intervene to stop the torture, and the organisers had retaliated by shooting a baby dead.

I know what the villagers should have done. When they couldn't stop it they should have run to the girl and stood there as human shields. But few have the courage to do that, and anyone trying would most likely end up dead too. Personally, I wouldn't have the courage to not do that. I'd rather die with the girl than live, having watched her die so dreadfully.

Sadly, Illusionsaregrander is quite correct. Whoever threw that concrete block was carrying out a mercy killing, putting an end to the poor girl's suffering and depriving the village idiots of their fun.

If it was up to you, and you were seeing someone you loved tortured to death for the amusement of the local idiots, and the only choice you had was to let the torture slowly, painfully continue to it's inevitable conclusion, while you listened to a child you loved scream, or to finish it fast, what would you do?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

i agree that it is horrible, and i despise sharia law, but remember your personal world view, needs to be tempered by the reality that there are also people who hold your world view, that have committed crimes against humanity and still do commit such crimes. what we have here is a ready made container to stuff people into, as a means to condemn the whole lot. not saying i agree with it, not at all.

Your doing the exact same thing I was talking about. Making excuses and defending what amounts to evil. Your comparison to your illness has zero to do with this and is a false argument. These people are not suffering from any illness and it's insane to think they don't know the difference between right and wrong.

I have no doubt that most Muslims are trapped in a system they did not create. I have zero issues with the Muslim Faith in fact. I do have trouble with those who sit by and allow this to happen to their own families and loved ones.

You also attempt to divert attention by saying "there are also people who hold your world view, that have committed crimes against humanity and still do commit such crimes". That is a bald faced lie in fact. No person who holds my "world view" would be anything but sickened by this.

People need to get this PC crap out of the dialogue. Evil is evil and wrong is wrong. Being PC is just an excuse to turn a blind eye to human suffering and evil. This was a child for God's sake. Even attempting to justify it is to be part of it.

If we want a better world the nonsense like making excuses for bad behavior has got to stop and be brought into the light of day, in our faces. Can you even imagine what it is like for the children in these fanatics homes? A man commits a rape and he is forced to Marry, a 13 year old girl is raped and she is beaten by her family and then killed by a so called religious court! If this does not get a persons blood boiling, they have not heart and no soul. A person would have to be a Sociopath to make excuses for happened to this child.

I do not blame this on Muslims as I suspect most are prisoners and the Muslims I know and socialize with have no problem condemning this. Only here on ATS do I ever run into people defending things like this behind the veil of anonymity. I've been friends with an Ethiopian refuge for last couple of years and gotten to know a group of refuge's from the Sudan he works with. All Muslim and they tell me they absolutely love America, contrary to the lies told by the PC nut's from the Progressives. I don't think you could pay them to go back to the mess they ran from.

My Muslim friend was a starving Farmer in Ethiopia and now he owns three businesses in the US. When I see what he has done in just a decade I'm shamed by the fact I've only been able to create one business. The Catholic Church saved him and those from the Sudan he is helping to acclimate. Not only don't they have issue with the Catholics they are most thankful to them. I'm not a Catholic but I am impressed myself.

I have no idea what you think "my world view" is but it's completely irrelevant to whether abuse like this thread is about is right or wrong. It saddens me anyone would make excuses. Saddens is not strong enough though, it sickens me I live among any people who would make excuses.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by notsoperfect

 

There really arent many religions I have any respect or love for based on their humanism.

How about Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai Lama?

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by arollingstone

 

Wow, only one of those sources actually presents any specific information. The rest are extremely ungeneralisable - how unbiased of you. I am not living in denial, I live in a country (and there are many similar) that has Shariaa law yet does not have capital punishment, you're the one in denial. Drinking is also legal here. Your sources would state otherwise, therefore your sources are ungeneralisable. I said that Shariaa law varies across countries, not that there's no countries that use extreme forms of it. I don't think you read what I just wrote. What I meant to explicate was that women aren't beaten to death for being raped very frequently in Saudi, not that there is no capital punishment. What about Non-Muslims performing the same acts? Thought you'd leave that out did you?

each source provided different information -- clearly you didn't bother to look ... and each also highlights current Saudi capital punishment activities. for you to claim you live under Shari'a but without capital punishment and NOT offer your location is BS in my book and most others.

if your going to use non-existent words - "ungeneralisable" - could you at least define them, please?
Shari'a law doesn't vascillate ... it is Law, it doesn't change, the application of it does ... just like American law.

you said -- Saudi doesn't administer beatings or capital punishment techniques and that is a lie.
you cannot 'explicate' what you stated as fact - nice try.
However, the fact is -- women are often beaten or abused in a variety of ways and frequently, in Saudi.
I have had more than one opportunity to go to Saudi on business ... and there isn't enough money in the world to convince me to voluntarily subject myself to such open brutality and oppression.

This subject isn't about non-muslims or any religion for that matter ... it is about the INhumane acts currently being inflicted all around the world but mostly in Islamic states, countries or regions.
If you want to discuss other atrocities, start a thread and i'd be happy to join.
However, you deflection technique fails here.
ps: i'm a non-religious and have never committed such acts and btw, drinking is legal in most countries, what makes you so special?

edit on 9-2-2011 by Honor93 because: correct address and formatting

Please do not nitpick, it is a hostile and desperate method of debate. I did not explicitly state what you said I did - I admittedly worded my sentence poorly seeing as I was not specific enough. Generalisability is a term used in statistics and trend analysis, it reflects part of what makes research accurate - that your findings are generalisable over a larger portion of a population (i.e. can your findings accurately represent the trends inherent in a larger scale population). If you had attempted to research it, you would have discovered that it is in fact a real word.

I will post some better links below about Sharia, please read about it for your understanding (as well as that of many other forum members) is very limited. It is not simply the concept of law based on Islamic morality. This subject isn't about Islam, but too many people have chosen to focus on the flaws of extreme forms Sharia Law - claiming that there is only one form. I have no reason to fabricate information to support my argument, I do not intend to deflect and do not have an agenda, merely just to ensure that those who comment on Sharia Law understand the nature of the system - it is extremely tiring ploughing through so much opinion stated as fact. I mentioned that drinking is legal here in order to highlight the wide range of laws that different countries may choose to adopt, under the umbrella form of Sharia Law. I too am non-religious, though I do believe in God my spiritual beliefs are personal and no longer based upon any holy book or religious doctrine but rather a combination of rationality and instinct.

Thanks.

Links:

www.reuters.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.opendemocracy.net...

Originally posted by Honor93

how utterly disgusting of you to view an act of mercy as some warped sense of kindness.
May you soul find peace someday.

You might want to edit your insult. It makes no sense.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


All religion is barbaric? Where did you get that idea? How can you be barbaric by being killed by his own enemies only after showing mercy and love on them? Mohammed was barbaric because he killed many of the non believers.

This kind of sweeping generalization is the symptom of the callous individuals like yourself who think it is kindness to throw a brick at the 14 years old girl.

There are no Buddhist terrorists. There are no Confucian terrorists. There are no Mornon terrorists. Have you ever heard of the phrase coined that way? But there certainly is the combination of words "Moslem terrioists"

Not all religion is the same, period. You are fundamentally wrong. This is not even an ignorance.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

How cruel and sick to say it is a kindness to throw a brick at her. How about run over to the girl and cover her up with your own body to prevent her further injury. Isn't this what Jesus Christ did in his life and taught to do the same?

The poor raped girl was half buried in the ground, and had laughing spectators chucking stones at her. She was dying very slowly and painfully.

According to a poster earlier in this thread, this murder was being organised by a group of armed men, people had already tried to intervene to stop the torture, and the organisers had retaliated by shooting a baby dead.

I know what the villagers should have done. When they couldn't stop it they should have run to the girl and stood there as human shields. But few have the courage to do that, and anyone trying would most likely end up dead too. Personally, I wouldn't have the courage to not do that. I'd rather die with the girl than live, having watched her die so dreadfully.

Sadly, Illusionsaregrander is quite correct. Whoever threw that concrete block was carrying out a mercy killing, putting an end to the poor girl's suffering and depriving the village idiots of their fun.

If it was up to you, and you were seeing someone you loved tortured to death for the amusement of the local idiots, and the only choice you had was to let the torture slowly, painfully continue to it's inevitable conclusion, while you listened to a child you loved scream, or to finish it fast, what would you do?

Boys and girls, this is called MURDER and is frowned on by most every society. If you don't have the courage to stand up to evil then get the heck out of the way. But definitely don't engage in the MURDER! Because then you become a MURDERER.

Originally posted by hp1229
We do not punish the victims in the states though there are thousands of reported/unreported cases of Rapes occuring on a daily basis within the US.

to this i have to say "wanna bet?" -- been there 3 different times and punished each occasion ... would you like details?

no, i didn't get beaten or stoned to death, just raped repeatedly, forced into an abortion, followed by unending years of financial support provided to the rapist and his family (via taxes), and much, much more.
Please don't fool yourself into believing some vision of an American utopia that does not exist.

Either way if a victim is punished or not, they are half dead from within due to the act of Rape.

and if this isn't a most viscous form of punishment, i don't know what is.
there really is nothing worse than merely existing in life, except when that mere existence lasts a lifetime.

Originally posted by markusjOHNSON
Dont you think calling a Unjust Country criminal System " Islamic" wrong?
Islam is a religion, This is an example of corrupt laws. This post is an example of hate propaganda.

You're ignorance is showing.
Islam is not only a religion, it is also a system of government with a huge body of Islamic law to back it up.

One reason for apostates sometimes being given the death penalty in Islamic countries is this triumvirate entity comprising Islamic law, Islamic religion and Islamic state. Thus apostasy in an Islamic country is considered treason, and is treated very harshly.

Judaism is similar in that it also has its own body of law, and any observant Jew would be insulted to be told Judaism is "just" a religion.

reply to post by Blaine91555


i didn't make excuses. i stated reality. in fact, i said, i despise sharia law. i also pointed out that genocide is not the answer to the problem. just like it isn't correct to think it's okay to kill people just because they are crazy. because being mentally ill is a disease, like a handicap or a medical condition. and unless you can convince me that handicapped and ill people need to be killed, then the idea of genocide does not work. i agree that what happened to that girl is horrific, and i will state again, i despise sharia law. and i have plenty of other references to crimes commited against women under sharia (see rawa.org ) but when i hear people calling for genocide of other people they deem unfit, i have to wonder if they are looking at the whole thing logically or compassionately or humanely.

i'm really surprised you skipped over the "i despise sharia law'" and began accusing me of supporting sharia law.

I read the story about this poor 14 year old girl and it just broke my heart its just disgusting she had her whole life ahead of her.. its just incredibly horrific that this could even happen...I hope there punished for this..I could go on but i wont this just makes me angry the more i think about it..

reply to post by hp1229


Buddhism is clearly designed to be more humane than the Abrahamic religions. But in the wrong hands, who knows what it could devolve to. Technically, Jesus' message is not so far from that of the Buddha, and look how that has panned out, in large because it comes coupled with the Old Testament and then Paul's additions/distortions.

But we are veering off topic dragging the Buddhists in.

My point is that people foaming at the mouth with hate, and venom at Islam, are just the same as the people who whipped that girl to death. Its that same mindset, that little orgasm of hate and judgment, that leads to violence. That extreme judgmentalism, is what leads to little girls being whipped to death. Or wars, or stonings, or burnings at the stake, or abortion clinic bombings, you name it.

Originally posted by Kailassa
If it was up to you, and you were seeing someone you loved tortured to death for the amusement of the local idiots, and the only choice you had was to let the torture slowly, painfully continue to it's inevitable conclusion, while you listened to a child you loved scream, or to finish it fast, what would you do?

first dear, your logic fails you
you cannot have "an only choice" AND another option "to finish it fast" --> unfortunately, that is called CHOICE.

secondly, i would never stand idly by when any creature worthy of my effort is intentionally injured.
lastly, everyone holding a stone ... had to aim it in one direction or another ... therein lies another CHOICE.
your commentary leads me to think you are having difficulty recognizing a choice when presented.

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by hp1229
We do not punish the victims in the states though there are thousands of reported/unreported cases of Rapes occuring on a daily basis within the US.

to this i have to say "wanna bet?" -- been there 3 different times and punished each occasion ... would you like details?
no, i didn't get beaten or stoned to death, just raped repeatedly, forced into an abortion, followed by unending years of financial support provided to the rapist and his family (via taxes), and much, much more.
Please don't fool yourself into believing some vision of an American utopia that does not exist.

Either way if a victim is punished or not, they are half dead from within due to the act of Rape.

and if this isn't a most viscous form of punishment, i don't know what is.
there really is nothing worse than merely existing in life, except when that mere existence lasts a lifetime.

First of all, sorry to hear about your personal incidents. If you dont mind, care to share the details about your punishment as a victim? You dont have to do it in the open. You can send me a message.

I agree and that was my point that most of the victims are punished indirectly since they're half dead within emotionally and that is a big punishment itself.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I completely agree with you. It's better to end someone's suffering quick, than have them in agonizing pain for hours, maybe days. Poor girl. This story makes me oh so angry and sad. I had thought we emerged from being barbaric to each other and our children. What a disgrace.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Not all hatred is the same as you again try to ofusticate the point with your callous generalization. You can not become evil by hating evil. You can not become corrupt by hating the corruption.

This "love everything" and "do not judge others" is a very dangerous concept which will make you end up tolerating evil and make you become a part of it.

You simply can not afford to love evil.