Question: What do you do if you are poisoned and can't goto a hospital?

reply to post by chr0naut


Another thing, simple but very useful. Enter the phone number of a close relative/contact in case of emergency into your mobile, iPod or PDA. Do it in this format "ICE contactName".

This is so a paramedic won't waste time trying to get authorisation to act to save your life. (ICE is short for "In Case of Emergency"). Also if you have an allergy or some other special need, they won't administer the wrong drug if they can find out from your contact.

Ok,

Called my old Team Medic from SF to ask - always nice to touch base and keep information up to date. He's still active.

Anyway:

For snakes the treatment methods have evolved over the years.

All you can do in the absence of the anti-venom is treat the symptoms of shock and they will be different depending on the snake. However, managing shock is the key to survival until evacuation can take place. Remember your ABCs for first aid. Be ready for CPR if necessary.

If it is (or you think it is) a poisonous snake then the first step is to put pressure on the wound and contrary to convention keep the bite BELOW the heart...

Assure the patient because excitement will speed the absorption of the poison through elevated heart rate.

The old method of a tourniquet is no longer used as it has not proven effective (this is also stated on Med-MD) and risks the whole limb rather than potions of it; however, to slow the spread of poison throughout the tissue wrap the effected limb with a compression type bandage (i.e. elastic or ACE stretch type dressing) and make it tight but not so tight that it cuts off blood flow all together like a tourniquet. This slows the flow to the vital areas and simultaneously slows the diffusion of the poison in the muscle and surrounding tissues which will save tissue when the inevitable debridement phase begins.

That is all you can basically do for the patient other than mange the symptoms of shock.

Do not give any morphine or any type CNS inhibitors. You don't want to slow down a persons heart rate and breathing any more than the poison already will. (Depending on snake species.)

If you know what kind of snake it was remember it (if not take a photo, remember the description oe something) and tell the medical personnel or whomever you radio or call on 911 because sometimes they will have to locate and fly the stock to the hospital. If you can have them work on that while you are in route - you shave time off the experience.

Spider bites even Black Widows are rarely fatal unless you are old, sick, and very young or have an allergy. It’s treated basically the same way as a snake bite. If you have an anaphylactic reaction and have a bee sting kit you can use that. You don't really even need to go to a hospital unless you are having difficulty breathing and or palpitations. In the end keep it clean and dry and if the tissue dies go get it checked.

I personally have had a brown recluse bite; it obviously bit me in my sleep because I never felt any bite. I just had an itching bug bite that got all brown and necrotic as it spread out. It never hurt but was itchy on the outside edges and frankly numb on the inside where the flech was dead.

Eventually I showed the medic and he had to cut out the dead tissue in the area and stitch it almost closed with a drain in it with a course of anti-biotics.

So I just went outside for a smoke after reading this thread and got stung by a bee.

Now that's rich.

Well my personal remedy for just about anything is high doses of ascorbic acid. I'd push pop grams until I get the runs. Probably start with a couple of grams, and keep adding one every ten minutes until I feel the stomach getting upset, or have a run towards the bathroom.

That's just me, though, and this isn't professional advice.

My kitten was bitten by a rattlesnake and survived against all odds. It was on an xmas eve and there were no vets open so I had to throw everything I knew at saving him.

First, I handled him with padded gloves as he was hostile. I managed to get a little bit of "calm down" in his mouth. This was something I made using poppy seeds and already had on hand.

In the meantime I was boiling a small amount of water. When it came to a boil, I added echinacea tincture in order to boil off the alcohol in the tincture. Afterward I threw in a couple of ice cubes to get it to cool off quickly. I drenched the bite wound in it.

I also emptied a capsule of strong milk thistle and added honey to it and smeared it on the cats nose.

It was touch and go for 3 days. When kitty would not eat, I mixed a very little bit of juice from tuna with chia seeds to keep him from getting dehydrated. It worked. Also applied charcoal poultices to paws on the limb as I was concerned about necrotic tissue damage which can show up a day or two after a bite.

Why did all of these things work to save my young kitten from a rattlesnake that was about 4 feet long?

I read a study where a potent milk thistle had been given to dogs, testing its efficacy in amanta mushroom poisoning. The dogs that received the milk thistle before eating amanta showed no signs at all of poisoning. The dogs receiving milk thistle within half hour of ingesting amanta did show signs of sickness, but not one of them died.

In rattlesnake poisoning, even if one survives the initial bite, toxoid crystals may form in the liver and kidneys within three days causing serious illness or death. Milk thistle is reputed to be a herb that protects the liver.

Rattlesnake venom is a proteolytic venom. It would require a proteolytic enzyme that digests the venom or protein, rendering it harmless.

There are various recommendations using natural substances like pineapple, etc. and a quick google can give you lots of info.

What came to my mind when my kitty was struck was a story I had heard many years ago about a man named Joseph Meyer. He traveled the country putting on his "Snake oil" shows. He would put on a demonstration allowing a rattlesnake to bite him. He would then tell of his "potion" that would cure snake bite. He would drink it and would prove to people that it worked. Years later, it was determined that his "Snake oil" potion was a tincture of Echinacea root which had been given to him by the Indians. It was not even in the King's Dispensary at the time.

With that in mind, and not really having any proof of validation, knowing it was only folklore...but being in a situation where it was "do or die" I used it. My cat still lives. However, I do think this cat took on some attributes of the snake that bit him because he is the meanest hissing cat I have ever known!

Wow, good feedback here. I knew it wasn't hopeless. Thanks to all for responses I can't really comment on the venom and herbs and all of that.. I'm not a big environmentalist. Looks like I'll need to be getting familiar with it though. I hope this thread helps anybody similar to me.

reply to post by Mizzijr


So what's up? Who got bit and by what? How are they now?
Hope all is well, but I'm curious too.

reply to post by Golf66


Good info. What about ice? That would slow the bloodflow and shrink the vessels back away from the surface where the bite is. Would ice, combined with the compression bandage, and placing the limb below the heart be a good combination?

I still say it couldn't hurt to suck out whatever venom is possible if it can be done immediately. Even if it only helps a little bit, it is still a little bit.

I can see how a compression bandage would be much preferred to a tourniquet though, thanks for that!

reply to post by Mizzijr


Try to vomit if it was ingested, if skin contacted try to take a shower

If its anaphylactic, try to find a shot kit. If it's anaphylactic and not a man-made poison you dont have a long time.

If it something like VX- x generation nerve gas you need atropine immediately. Atropine inhalers are available at most drug stores for breathing difficulties.You must administer immediately, you have no time. If you can find an injection kit, use it. You might need a friend for CPR for a bit.

If the SHTF, raid a drug store for all the antibiotics and stuff named above

reply to post by NthOther


Tell you what brother, the difference for me between a bee and a .45 cal is that the bee is self-propelled and guided - it will follow me around corners.

Without my shot kit I am dead. I still need professional support within an hour after the sting because my respiratory tract might still fail and I might have a stroke from the dose.

Glad you aren't allergic.

reply to post by chr0naut


Activated Charcoal is for ingested poisons, and doesn't work for everything.

How would even remotely help on a bite?

reply to post by Mizzijr


no no silly it takes some time to die its not just instant first there is some tissue lose and quit a bit of pain then death yeah im sure thats the order of things cheers

reply to post by Miraj


The OP was originally about poisons in general, not specifically a bite. I was replying to that.

If it's ingested poison, take a handful of activated charcoal. It absorbs anything in the digestive system, then exits the body at either end. You can buy activated charcoal in anyplace that sells vitamins. It's natural and perfectly safe. ER's give it to suicidal overdose patients.

I've been bitten by a rattlesnake, a cotton mouth, and the latest was a brown recluse.

Simple process: For those who haven't prepared in advance by obtaining a reduced voltage stun gun - not a taser.

I'm talking about 20-25,000 volts - oddly - just about what you can readily find on a typical gasoline spark plug wire. If you want, you can buy 40-45,000 volt stun guns that work well too.

Take a spark plug wire loose from a boat, car, chain saw, motorcycle, ATV, or similar variation, and place the wire against the wound. Ground the other side of the limb, and have someone crank the engine.

You get about ten good hits with maybe ten or twenty seconds between short bursts, and you'll immediately note a reduction in pain.

For insect bites such as spider, scorpion, or even bee or ant bites, they don't bite very deeply, so you'll likely see quicker results.

For God's sake, the sooner you hit it, the better off you'll be, and the least necrosis. Get it treated quickly, and likely no necrosis.

But don't think you'll get great results if you got three bites by a big Eastern Diamondback and two days later you think you'll try the sharp gradients. Too late.

Someone dies from snakebite or even loses a lot of tissue from necrosis when so many sources of sharp gradients are around - that's senseless.