waking up - being awake - being enlightened - break it down - define it

Originally posted by simone50m
... I know that there is a dark force working proverbial puppet strings behind the most powerful leaders in the world. Put best by Woodrow Wilson. "Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it"....

But it just doesn't string together right, in my view.

So therefore,....What on earth? ...... or maybe NOT on earth?

I'm not entirely sure that this astonishing line of thought qualifies you as "Awakened" or as a "Knower," but it sure is interesting. Do you have any more insight into the subject?

And even as you suggest some form of super behind-the-scenes power you proclaim it/them a "Dark Force." I wonder why you think that as it seems out of touch with the flow of the Tao..

ALSO, good questions for a thread but only if some wizened Seekers emerge from their huts and caves to share their experiences on the Path, and about other concepts as well: Sane 'vs' insane, Awakened 'vs' asleep, unconscious 'vs' Conscious, Enlightened 'vs' Gnosis 'vs' Awakened 'vs' what???? etc etc.

I'm sure you'll agree, not the kind of answers One learns in books and tough to quantify without having been there..

Waking up is rising to the level of your mind, as most people are controlled by thier minds (that is, they take the instructions of their mind without question) When you rise to the level of your mind, you have a chance to perceive all the mental forces that are basically controlling your behaviour, for example, you start to realise that some of your habits are recurrent thoughts that are linked to traumatic events in your past. Once you have realised the effect of the mind on your actions, you are in a position to self-consciously re-shape your mental landscape, and as the mind clears, it translates into actions. Enlightenment refers to the ability of our awareness to rise above our mind, or in other words, to force our minds down to where we once used to be, and bring ourselves up to where our minds used to be. When this happens, we can see the light that our minds had been preventing us from seeing. The process of awakening is usually gradual, based on contemplation and imagination, until we manage to get a "hold" on our minds. After this, we find a "way out" and escape our minds, and basically we must then confront our true selves, when we realise our true selves, there is a process of us "returning to the light" and re-activating those dormant parts of our natural selves that were repressed by our minds. When our spirits return to their natural states, and when we reach a particular threshold level, we become enlightened, and basically we become a higher spirit, and are thus ready to reach one of the higher planes of existence after we die, as opposed to falling to the lower planes of existence and basically becoming a thought-fragment within one of our offspring or "reincarnating" as an ancestral memory in another individual. Once an enlightened person can face the "abyss" - and thus master the darkness and the light, there is a second threshold point called "immortality" - where the individual can exist totally within thier own mind, and thier consciousness can prevail indefinitley, usually absorbing the souls and memories of others over time (becoming an oversoul) and eventually, when the time is right, on a new planet (usually), re-birthing themselves, and as they break apart, all the souls contained within them connect to the spark of life and the dead individuals contained in their consciousness will incarnate as new life-forms, and the over-souling individual will become a God. Much like a star, once a collection of gasses (i.e. souls), the gasses collect together and eventually ignite to form a star, eventually the star burns out and dies, and can become a black hole, on the other side of the black hole, a new galaxy will form, and all the materials that went into the star, and all the materials that were absorbed by the black hole, will see light in a new existence.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Interesting, if somewhat windy. If you have personal experience with these things perhaps you could put them into some context. Perhaps a progression of events on your personal Spiritual Path? With a time frame as well?

It seems the first step for anyone would be “awakening” to the possibility that something might have been "missed" in the views force feed from childhood, perhaps dis-ease brought by uncomfortable thoughts or sight of cracks in the façade of an enforced “reality.”

This could be, or would be, a staggering (first) realization in itself and moreso especially if/when mere suspicion propels an inquiring mind into the abyss of uncharted waters where additional “awakenings” might progress to (as yet unknown) events.

And One might presume that the initial awakening might lead to further small “awakenings” over time that would bring a serious seeker to various plateaus in his climb up the mountain. I'm curious about what these plateaus might be?

Therefore, one answer to the question possed by the OP begins with an "awakening" to other possibilities, and ends with "Enlightenment" or "Gnosis." With NO doubts about either one and clear memory of the Waypoints encountered on the Journey to them.

reply to post by Brown Bear


You're not the first one to come to me, on ATS, or in person, requesting a road-map to enlightenment. Unfortunately, the process can only be vaguely outlined, as much of it must be experienced in whatever order the initiate encounters the events.

The most common path does begin with the "awakening" though. Usually a person will begin to feel incomplete, or unsatisfied with their lot in life, which causes them to seek something more to fill their desire for an unquenchable "something".

Often, in seeking something to fill this emptiness, people will experience a "glitch in the matrix" type scenario. In the case of the Buddha, he witnessed the decay of old age, the advent of sickness, and the existence of poverty. These three "glitches" were what woke Siddhartha Gautama up, propelling him towards a new spiritual path, which eventually lead to his attaining Nirvana, and sublimating into the Universe as The Buddha.

Occasionally though, the "awakening" stage is skipped all-together and a method of enlightenment is experienced instead. People dubbed "mystics" and "shamans" usually prefer this route. They embark on a Hablenčeya, or a spirit/vision quest. It is during this quest that the initiate has a "mystical moment" where they cross over from the physical to the spiritual and encounter some kind of divine thing: their ancestor, a spirit animal, a spirit guide, or something along those lines.

So, there are a few various progression stages:

• Waking Up - Uncovering Religious Symbolism - Delving into Spiritual practices - Having a Mystical Moment - Seeking more Mystical Moments - Having Enlightened Moments - Death - Total Enlightenment

• Embarking on a Spirit Quest - Having a Mystical Moment - Understanding Religious Symbolism - Delving into Spiritual Practices - Sustaining Mystical Moments - Dying Enlightened - whatever happens then

There are other pathways too, which can be worked. The main point is to seek them out in the order that they occur to you. I myself began by studying religious symbolism and comparative mythology. From there I advanced to spiritual practices, and attempted to seek out a temporary enlightenment (Satori, epiphany, etc) but instead had a small mystical moment which lead me to reconsider the physical and non-physical worlds. This reshaped my entire worldview and changed my life completely. I am still working towards full enlightenment, but I have no doubt that I will reach it one day.

My definitions are guidelines, not a map, so don't forget to blaze your own way with my advice as mile-markers along the journey.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

You're not the first one to come to me, on ATS, or in person, requesting a road-map to enlightenment....
My definitions are guidelines, not a map, so don't forget to blaze your own way with my advice as mile-markers along the journey.

It's unfortunate that your Ego thinks I've asked you for a "road-map" as nothing could be farther from the Truth... but perhaps better to move on from that, huh? I merely asked you to recount some of your experiences as you passed specific Waypoints and Plateaus that you've offered to define your journey.

In other words, I'd hoped for more than book-style "definitions," and in fact, asked you to sing parts of your song about adventures along the way. And also, I expressed my belief (and expectation) that anyone who has made a significant Journey has memories rich enough to tell the Tale.

Anybody can read a book and learn answers that their Ego will run with, and often the misconception is the single answer to the question asked by the Master, when in reality, it's the second and third questions that provide the answers sought.

Show us a little of the stuff you think others want so badly from you. That you are apparently unwilling, or unable, to share with the Universe.

reply to post by Brown Bear


My apologies, I misinterpreted a line from your original response to my earlier post. Specifically, this one:

Perhaps a progression of events on your personal Spiritual Path? With a time frame as well?

When somebody asks me to recount how I got from point A to point B spiritually, it doesn't usually imply "tell me a little about what you do". Typically, when I am asked to explain every step I took, it is because someone thinks if they do everything that I did they will end up where I am; that just isn't how it works. So, again, sorry that I misinterpreted your original intent. Seeing as you have clarified, I'll do the same.



If you want to know the steps I took, and how long it took me to get to where I am, I'll give you a brief outline. It started when I first was taught how to read by my parents, and then "officially" taught in grade-school. After I learned to read primary education level books (Dr. Seuss and the like) my dad introduced me to cryptozoology, the paranormal, and the supernatural via books by famous paranormal investigators (Loren Coleman, Jerome Clarke, John Keel, and others). It was while reading John Keel's "The Mothman Prophecies" that I first got the idea in my head that "unknown territory still exists in our world; we don't know how everything fits together just yet."

The rest of primary school introduced me to very basic mathematical, social science, and scientific concepts, which I enjoyed more and more as each grade passed. I was, in short, supporting two loves: on one hand was my love for the mathematical and scientific understanding of the Universe and people; while on the other I was continually seeking answers to the questions posed by the existence of unknown beings, odd animals, and paranormal experiences. When I entered 6th grade (what we call "Middle School" here) I got a breath of relief in the support of a literature teacher who saw me thinking and reading on a much higher level than the other students. Her name was Ms. Strand, and she said that as long as I completed the daily course work, she'd allow me to cater my other literary interests. Special treatment, yes, I know.

During that year I read voraciously; anything and everything I could. Fiction, non-fiction, the Bible, historical fiction, biographies, and more. Ms. Strand would stay after school hours frequently and talk with me about what I was reading, helping me to grasp the concept of unexplainable phenomenon more thoroughly. It was because of her encouragement that I started talking with a man named Jacobi, a science teacher at the school, about how science plays into all of this. That moment was the first "sign" for me, my moment of Waking Up. Jacobi and Strand steered me towards exploring alternative history, science, philosophy, whatever interesting books we could find.

During my Middle School years I began reading religious tomes: the Bible, the Koran, a collection on the Dharma as issued by the Buddha, and thanks to my dad and a small resale bookshop he knew of I was able to get collections of various world mythologies. I began to notice similarities in mythology (like the Rites of Osiris and Tammuz, or the Descent of Ishtar and the myth of Demeter and Persephone, etc), and religious histories (multiple flood stories, a "naval" / "tree" of the world, etc). The things I was reading were blowing my mind, and I wanted to know more, and more. I was Waking Up with quite a hunger.

So, I began to meditate, following an outline from the Buddha (which I still use as a cornerstone, see my Meditation thread on ATS linked in my profile). I was really hoping to meditate my way to some form of connection with some kind of angel, or god, or other divine being. I was still young though, and still in school for 9 hours a day (I worked in the middle school with the shop teacher, helping him get everything set in the mornings so he could direct traffic), which meant that I didn't have the time required to devote myself to these things. I was trying to feed my mind, but it wasn't working out so well.



And then, just shy of my fourteenth birthday is when I had my Mystical Moment. It came in the form of a girl, a wandering Shamaness (my word for a female-shaman) who was staying-over in my town. I happened to meet her by chance while visiting the land my family used to live on. She was using the woods out there as a habitat for her Hanblečeya. That word is what the Sioux called their Spirit Quest, where they lament their existence until the Ancestors, or gods, or spirits give them entreaty. She didn't know my family used to own the land she was using, and I stumbled upon her make-shift hut. This was my first moment of satori, or clarity. Here was someone not much older than I (she was 17) who was seeking the same things I was, but who was further along the path than myself. Our first meeting was filled with an air that I still can't quite make sense of: familiarity, comfort, compassion, and much deeper emotions: liebestod I believe is an adequate word for some of it. The "Moment" was our first "touch" done during shared meditation in which I saw—whether imagined or not—some form of the grief and life she had lived.

I don't know what she experienced during her Lamentation, but she agreed to help me path-work through the early stages of spiritual awakening. It was under her guidance that I began to meditate successfully, while also unlocking deeper dream states, and understanding the "metaphors in life" as she called them. I also graduated from Middle School and entered my High School years, so education also opened up to allow me to openly study philosophy and mythology and history and earth science and so much more. I spent my freshman year doing three things:

1) Going to campus every day at 6:45 am to free-study and free-read before class. Then going to class from 8 until 3:15.

2) I would walk from campus at 3:15 to a mutual meeting place her and I had set up about 20 minutes away. I would then work with her 5 days a week from roughly 4 until 5:30 on whatever the subject happened to be: mythology, religion, the Buddha, science, Mystery Schools, whatever she was working on or that I was curious to know about.

3) I would then walk home (or get picked up in the Winter) and have dinner with my family before using the evenings to see friends, see girlfriends, complete school work, etc. I would then sleep and repeat.

That was one of the most productive years of my life.



She died in September, a little over a year after I had met her (I suspect her Lamentation was concerning this). I was broken, having lost a friend, and a teacher, and my Guide. She left me her collection of books, religious trinkets, her journal, and more (all of which I still possess). So my real reason for waking up and seeking Enlightenment? Because she took her last year of life, a time she could have devoted to anything, and she devoted it to me, and helping me quench my thirst for answers and understanding. I continued to read everything I could find (philosophy, mythology, science, history, religious books, and more) while trying to practice techniques she had taught me.

But it still wasn't enough, I wasn't content with just reading and learning. I was ashamed that I was doing it for only myself, because she had chosen to open up and share her world with me. I decided to seek out like-minded individuals at my school, and see if I could find other people walking my path so we could walk it together. And I did. Some of them became close friends, some of them studied and fell away to drugs and other vices, some are on ATS right now, some explored and didn't like it so they left. We caused a little stir though, enough so that an unsanctioned after-school club was formed where we invited all people—for, again, intellectual, burn-out, whoever—to come and study and learn and experiment with us.

That little meeting held every Thursday after school in the cafeteria is where I started to learn about the non-spiritual side of life. People interested in psychology brought their views on religion and spirituality, people interested in empirical science started reading about Quantum Theory and asking questions, and on and on. We were a melting pot, with me and a female-friend of mine at the head. So I started reading and learning about all things so that I could answer questions and lead discussions the next week about the topics posed. Time and time again I experienced little moments of epiphany where science and mysticism seemed to overlap, and moments of satori where some bit of information opened personal insight for myself.



When graduation came we all went our separate ways, some studying science, some psychology, some religion, some math and engineering. Even though we had all gone different ways we kept the Collective (our name for our band) alive though. As we went further and further away we picked up new interested individuals. Every time we met for recesses we would all get together for a weekend and the exchange became communal. Everyone working off of what everyone else brought to the table.

And to this day that is how we still operate. It doesn't matter if you're Wicca, or an Occult initiate, a Buddhist, a Christian Mystic, or a science guy. We invite you all, and we all share in the experiences and lessons you have to offer. We fill each other up, continuously. None of us are fully enlightened, and we never will be in this single life; but none of us can ever go back to sleep.



I'm twenty-two now. My path to spiritual enlightenment has been an almost life-long progression. And I am no where near done yet. I'm really just beginning. So, if you want to know what I did, I got lucky and found some great people to help me out along the way. I watched the only person I've loved so far in life lead me to a point and then retire herself. I started a collection of interested minds and encouraged thinking and questioning. And I never stopped moving forward. That is the key. When you think you've got it all figured out, take another step and see how everything changes.

So, do I have an Ego? Yeah, I do. I never said I was a practitioner of one of those anti-ego spiritual routes. And do I misinterpret things? Am I fallible? Yes, I am. That's part of being human: the ability to grow and learn and make mistakes. Am I proud of what I have become and done? Yeah.

I hope this post has been more directed towards answers you were looking for, Brown Bear. And to the OP, a thousand apologies for hijacking your thread momentarily with this post. I'll do my best to bring my next one back in line with your original topic again.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


no problem wandering scribe. Your story makes me think how lucky you were to have parents who were so forward thinking and the gift that was your friend - your story was a real pleasure to read

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Excellent. Thank you for sharing your story, and parts of yourself. In the interest of space I won't quote it... nevertheless, Good Job.

IMO, you demonstrate many valuable qualities of a True Seeker. First and foremost is dedication to the task before you as this Purity of Heart will pay your admission to the Higher Realms when the time comes. You're young and have plenty of time before you, and you're off to a damn good start, it appears.

Obviously you've come early on to realize (and accept) the Karma that exists in every human encounter and also somewhat naturally (?) fell into the concept of Archetypes, both Female (the Goddess (propellant)) and Spiritual Forces and you have both a plan and an openness to the Forces which you must confront.

You've also provided a lucid self-evaluation and admitted to the plateaus you have so-far failed to reach which essentially "screams" honesty and shows removal of many barriers which would otherwise prevent advancement to the highest levels. When you overcome your "Ego" you will be well positioned for a shot at Enlightenment.

And also, you've demonstrated not only that you're Conscious but the amount of serious personal work required to make that happen, it's not as easy as some people think, and Consciousness is a Gateway Plateau to all that comes later, as without it nothing else will happen. Your attitude of openness has brought a stream of Teachers into your life.

The Search for Meaning in your Life has provided "nourishment" and it appears that your travels have taken you to many locations without reliance on New Age fluff. You're studied history philosophy humanities as well as, the stuff farther out, and been able to take whatever you've found valuable regardless of where you found it. Excellent.

Your age, and your progress, is impressive and your Journey quite different from mine. Which illustrates that when pursuing the Infinite there are an infinite number of Paths to IT... however, as you've shown, those who work diligently toward a goal will reap what they sow (eventually). What else to do but just keep stumbling forward once you're committed?

Tell us about the pain. No journey is complete without it.

reply to post by Brown Bear


brown bear would you consider giving your story? it would be interesting as you say your journey is different.

reply to post by doubledutch


Thank you DoubleDutch, I'm glad you didn't see it as being off-topic. I did my best to condense it, catching the most important points of a decade-long journey into a couple of paragraphs so that it wouldn't stick out like too much of a sore-thumb in your thread. Still, I am glad that even this minute piece was worthwhile for you.

And yes, my family has been a tireless force beside me. They never once put up walls, set obstacles, banned my studies, or disowned me along the way. They have been nothing but supportive of me every step of the way, and for that I am ever-grateful.

The same goes for my "friend" (I don't use her given-name on purpose, as that was how she wished to be remembered: nameless and boundless). I would not be anywhere had I not stumbled upon her when I did. She was my catalyst, just as everyone who really sees into the Aethyr has their own catalyst as well; some of us are just lucky enough to be able to hold the hand of ours.

I hope that my posts thus far on your thread have all been educational and beneficial to you and your original inquiries. If not, then I have fallen short of my intention.

Originally posted by doubledutch
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

brown bear would you consider giving your story? it would be interesting as you say your journey is different.

My story could fill a book that'll never be published. The most I hope to do is to tell people that there's a pinnacle which can be gained. The Journey is not easy but if the rewards gained from achieving it were known by the Masses then everybody would be doing it. And some might even succeed.

I believe these matters are pre-written and pre-destined because of the course of my life and in consideration of how hard I tried to embrace Maya. Besides a significant Birth Story there were mystical events in my 19th and 21st years but they were shrugged off as I rushed into the material life before me.

But in retrospect, one can't ignore Destiny, and maybe better not to try to screw with Fate either, so after living a full life in the world I became a form of Western Mendicant as a 24/7 365 Seeker and slowly gave up attachments to everything I believed to be dear. It was a Journey that would cost everything.

The first years were focused on the Path of Knowledge. I trusted no one in my head except dead Masters and I discovered psychological methods to empty space, and thus release pressure, and then could fill the emptiness with the thoughts of Western Masters. I camped daily in a Used Bookstore and read everything in sight (for years).

The Battle is with the "all knowing" Ego and although a formidable enemy its not Real nor can it think... but these realities make it necessary to teach one's Self both how to think and then how to develop forms of Meditation in order to choose up sides for the battle already quietly taking place in the subconscious.

My Path was Old School, in fact more Mystery School, and I used the pinnacle of Man's accumulated Knowledge, first from the West and then later from the East, to build from the backs of the Masters. At this time a process more akin to Jung's Individuation which leads to consciousness. And it was pain that marked any progress.

The MS words signify a clear approach to the Journey with an "all or nothing" attitude best described as "do or Die." That's a powerful Contract in some places and one that is guaranteed to be put to the test, as it was repeatedly, and me too but I was merely along for the ride. The best blades are formed from the hottest fires.

The only real choice I made was to participate, and I can take no credit for the events and realizations that unfolded from experience over the years. I couldn't imagine it and of could never plan something of that scale either. I didn't do it... something else did. A secret sharer?

Anyway, by the time I'd filled myself with Man's Knowledge, and learned the "impossibility" of it, thus began 7 years in Asia, mostly in India on a Journey driven by the Gods. The mingling of West and East into a New Philosophy. And living in a foreign culture is a good way to finish off Individuation as you're exposed in front of your own eyes.

Blah Blah Blah. What followed were adventures beyond belief, and frickin Miracles too. But my Path was not the middle-Way and Death rode with me at every turn of the cards and it was "all in" more times than I can remember. And that's the reason I can't say more about it.

reply to post by Brown Bear


Hello again, Brown Bear. Thanks for following up on DD's request and posting your events. I was debating responding to your earlier post to me first, but then thought it would be best to read a little bit about your own road before I misinterpreted your definition of certain words and phrases. Thus, I hope no one will take offense to me combining your case-history with your response to my story. I feel that by responding to both I can better tackle the response you made to me.



First, you approach "enlightenment" from three distinct localities: Western Mysticism, Eastern philosophy, and ancient Mystery Schools.

As a practitioner of Western Mysticism, you are no doubt familiar with the Occult, specifically occult teachings of the Golden Dawn, Aurum Solis, and the Argentium Astrum flavor I assume. This is good, as I too am very familiar with the Western occult teachings of these schools. This simple fact, arrived at by your use of "The Middle Path" (called the Pillar of Mildness); and the phrase "turn of the cards" suggesting a post-Rosicrucian blending of the Tarot and the Hermetic Kaballah gives me a very good feel of where you are coming from.

Second, your study of Ascended Masters links back to Yoga, Yogis, Gurus, and no doubt the practice of Buddhism as taught by magicians such as Aleister Crowley through his A.A., or the Golden Dawn, or the O.T.O. This helps me identify the purposes and reasons you see behind developing the True Will, uncovering the Essential Mind, and disposing of the Ego. The ascended mind is, no doubt, very important to you, as you state in your case-history that uncovering ways to "empty space" became essential towards growth for you.

Finally, you identify yourself with Mystery Schools. You don't state which, but that is fine as all of them (Egyptian, Greek, Gnostic, Christian) grew out of the Babylonian mysteries. So, this also tells me that you're very familiar with the concept of religious syncreticism, and the symbolic nature of religious sacraments. Finally, because you mention Jung I also assume you are familiar with his work and the psychology of religion, which can all stem out of an understanding of the essence of the religious rituals present in Mystery School traditions.

There are also some other things you seem to believe in:

Karma, or a watered-down version of the doctrine of Karma. As well as a Westerner's view on Nirvana, or the reaching of a higher state of thinking, and then being.

Predestination, as taught by monotheistic religions the world-over. However, you also use words such as fate and destiny. I harbor my own definitions of these two terms, equally separate from predestination, so I will just ignore them for now since I don't think you view the three terms as individuals, but more as facets of the same doctrine.

I think this gives me a good idea of your views and their origins.



Now then, you opened your response to me by stating that I had taken off to "a damn good start". I assume this is now more apparent to you as I briefly explained the philosophy behind the systems you are familiar with. So yes, I think we can both agree that I have done my homework very well. As have you, if you know how the systems work as well as you allude to.

Next, you discussed the Karma existing between all humans. I don't know if I quite grasp this notion. Karma, to me, is not a "force" or an "energy" permeating all things. I recognize and work to cultivate the energy-patterns that link friends, lovers, teachers/students, and all others' together. I do not call it Karma though. Karma, as it was taught by the Hindus, the Buddhists, and the Neo-Pagans works as a system of checks and balances for you during your life. Yama, the God of Death, holds judgment over every deceased soul who travels through the Bardos, ultimately counting their Karmic actions as a means for determining what Hell, Earth, or Heaven realm they will be reincarnated into. So, I understood what you implied when you wrote this paragraph to me, but I think you confused some terms.

As for an "openess to the forces I must confront", I think you're a little misguided there. It is not the forces which come to me. People come to me, humans, good old fashioned homosapiens. I pursue the forces. And not just myself. Together, with those around me who feel and think the same, we collectively pierce the Veil of Da'ath to gain admittance to the highest realms on the Tree. Yes, we are open to the experiential data that we will receive, but it is the Forces which present the "openess" towards us. If they didn't want us probing their realm, they wouldn't let us.

Next, you discuss my chances at achieving (permanent) enlightenment. I agree with you. When, or if, I so desire to seek permanent enlightenment I know that the achievement is well within my grasp. I do not want it though. The dissolving of the body, and spirit, in favor of attaining the True Essence does not interest me much. While this realm may have come about because of the Lamentations of Sophia—faced with living an existence with the Demi-Urge—I have no reservations about the outer tranquility, higher knowledge, personal joy, and inner peace which can be had by living in this lamentable world. One day I may seek hanblečeya for my soul; but that day is not anywhere in my near future. Thank you for the praise though, I will continue to seek a higher vantage, always.

The personal work required to achieve these states of being goes without saying. If waking up and seeking a higher road were easy, it wouldn't be an achievement. Life is hard, and the road through it is perilous and dangerous. We aren't living if we're not facing obstacles every time we seek to move ahead.

I completely agree with your final paragraph.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


"Bingo" on some points but on others you presume too much, or perhaps too little.

Clearly you have adequate credibility to lecture on these subjects IMO..

I bow to your encyclopedic knowledge and wish you a Bon Voyage.

Namaste

reply to post by Brown Bear


Such is the problem with the spiritual road, no two maps give the same directions. I don't mind if I made a few wrong turns by your map, they've been all the right moves on mine. It seems like we're both heading to the same place though.

Ahimsa

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by TedHodgson
reply to post by doubledutch

 

Its Kind of the Process of realisation and Re-evaluation of the way you see and perceive life and The acceptance of a Bigger picture been painted around us.

when people say theve "Woken-up" What they have done is awoken from a dreamstate conciousness to a Wider and more understanding Conciousness

This, word for word!

i think it's something personal. and that some of the so called "enlightened ones" aren't. Personally, i think i did awake in a moment, but i don't think that a person who still needs to live tied up to a society of consume can be enlightened at all. The road becomes blurry and is easy to lose it when you're worried aboout the bills you need to pay, the loans, what are you going to do to eat tomorrow and the like... this society itselfs is using all the chances it haves to keep us tied up to the eternal dream of consumism. And i think, again, I THINK, that a real enlightened person is the one who finally cuts those ties and starts to live in joy and bliss because finally did it.

I don't think that anyone here is a real enlightened person. Being here, in a forum, posting, means you need to pay bills (internet, electricity, etc) and from my POV, the real enlightened people is, as i said, the ones who had cut all the ties with the reality that's impossed to us by force. Awaken people, sure, there's plenty of them, but enlightened... i have serious doubts about that. Maybe in the Tibet

I don't really know about any spiritual awakening, I guess for me waking up was just a process of growing up and realising that life isn't all gum drops and lollipops, that human beings exploit one another go to war with one another hate each other for their race, religion and sexuality. Once you are aware of these truths, it's natural that you would want to understand the nature of this world and how it operates. So it's less of an awakening more of an evolution of interest.

reply to post by doubledutch

waking up - being awake - being enlightened - break it down - define it,

Imagine your walking along one day, taking in the sights and just enjoying the sunshine in a pleasant park. Then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, somebody comes up to you and kicks you in the nuts, then walks away while your laying on the ground.

That my friend is like the beginning stages of waking up - being awake - being enlightened. If you survive the tests, then you will become and see something else. And if your really lucky and chosen, you will have the privilege of being truly enlightened and not surviving the tests at all.

Its kind of like being a baby brought into a world, all kicking and screaming and crying.

So any more stupid questions?

You want to get yourself some ascension? Oh asker of silly questions.
If you are tried and found not lacking then you to can ascend....Oh the joy, yay, rejoice.

So you ready to get yourself some enlightenment? Because if you are then it will not come.

So be ready to not be ready.

Originally posted by Passafist
To OP,

A good story to answer this question is Plato's Cave. This only problem is, one man's enlightenment could anothers tomfoolery.

www.youtube.com...

Ah Plato, the more somber and slower of Socrates pupils.

Now Socrates being enlightened should of known the price he must pay for teaching things to those who need to learn by themselves, and need not concern themselves with such... higher ideals.

And that price he paid with his life.

But he did as he preached and said, so cool guy. Though not very sane, the dude was married, now how insane you have to be to do that, and still call yourself a philosopher? He was bat # crazy to do as he said and preached.

In a insane world you cant be to sane. Being sane in a insane world is not a very sane thing to do.

Though Plato's cave is a good allegory about life and existence on this planet for about as long as humans have been aware of there own consciousness, and possibly even longer.

Awakening is the realisation that blinders have been placed on you.
Enlightenment is the knowledge gained once you take them off.