A Tragedy That Makes Me Wonder

I have noticed posts here and people in general that seem to no longer respect or appreciate the men and women who serve in our military. While I am aware that the reasons we went to war may still be debatable, I am also aware that our government uses, abuses, and throws away the very people who signed up to help people and serve a country they still believed in. I do honestly feel that most signed up to do honorable things and further their education in the mean time.

I disagree with a lot of our "butting into" other country's business. But I can not find a way to rationalize why some in our society have begun to disrespect, and blame our soldiers. They get no vote in what war they fight, when they go, or when they return. Most entered at an age where being a "hero" was a somewhat noble and romantic idea. Only to realize they are doing things they may not agree with later down the road. By then Uncle Sam owns them and they have no recourse until it is time to reup or retire. I know of two young men who followed this example.

I ran across this story a while ago: www.msnbc.msn.com...

Father and son suffer post-Iraq brain injuries
Both survived an IED blast, three years apart, and struggle with aftermath

The story is beyond tragic, and I wonder why we coninue in this war. There are thousands who have died, leaving orphans and widows behind. And there are thousands more that have suffered like the father and son in this article. I have a massive amount of empathy and respect for all of them.

I can understand the lack of patriotism given the turmoil our country has been in. I can even understand not supporting the branches of military in the government sense.

I just can not understand why some people can not seperate these people who had the most honorable intentions from what the government has mandated they do. They are people as well. Not just nameless soldiers.

Have we as a society seen so much of this that people no longer care? Right after 9/11 there was wide support for our troops, not everyone, and not even for the war itself. But for the troops that had no choice but to follow orders. What happened? Can we seperate our disrespect for the things our military is ordered to do from the person who thought they were going to protect us and help others?

I know this is a heated subject. I know I will probably get torn in two. It is not my intention to raise ire, it's merelya question and point of view. I realize not everyone needs or has to agree with me and I am not asking for such. I was merely curious about what I see is a growing trend.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


Honestly I have never seen an ATS member say that the people who serve are wrong. We do understand that they have no choice once they have signed up and yes they ARE heros and deserve our absolute respect. You may see comments pertaining to Spec-Opps such as Blackwater or other criminal group who knowingly do things completely unethical because they know they can get away with it, but those are maybe .01% of the US army/US defense force. Anyone who doesn't support the men and women fighting for our country (whether or not you agree with the war) is ignorant to the fact that maybe the soldiers don't agree with the war, or they are just plain stupid. These men and women face things you can't even imagine while you sit on your ass watching american idol (not directed at OP) so we really have no right to challenge what our soldiers do. I fully support our troops and I hope everyone here would say the same, I do not support the war but I am smart enough to realize they are two very different thing. S+F

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


Excellent post! I couldn't agree more with what you are saying. What do you say to these men and women that go and fight so that the wealthy can continue in their luxury. So that we can have gasl at $3 a gallon instead of $6.

We play world policemen and when there is no oil we don't play.

Our troops fight for an ideal and they view it as fighting for their country and as an honorable thing, and they should be treated with the respect that their ideal deserves and not for what their country has done and TPTB.

I'm glad that we live in a country where we have freedom of speech, but that freedom does not give us the right to degrade those who have paid such a price.

Brace yourself for the punks that will come on here and try to put those men and women, and you, down for their beliefs.I served and it is my humble opinion that if you didn't, you need shut your mouth on the critizism.
Seeashrink

Because they allow themselves to be the instruments of imperialism and greed.

If nobody volunteered to do the bidding of sociopathic warmongers, then there would be no war.

The only reason countries like Iraq and Afghanistan get invaded, pillaged, plundered, and destroyed, with thousands of our own men getting killed in the process, is because people are fooled into believing that they are defending their country by doing so, when in reality, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

reply to post by seeashrink


Thank you for your service.

I am expecting to get trounced and that is ok. It was my dream to serve when I was in high school. Due to knee injuries that never happened. I can say that back then in my head it was honorable and noble. Most 18 year olds don't make it a habit to watch the news religiously, or keep up on political madness. They enter in unaware for sure.

My grandfather served in WW2 and until the day he left this world he was haunted by the things he had to do. He was a Christian man and worried for decades how God looked upon his time served. It was heartbreaking and I still respect the hell out of him. He was damaged in the process of helping free death camp survivors.

I also have two nephews who joined at 18. That was several years ago. They too have been changed.

These are the people who make me take notice of the growing disrespect. They were/are not proud of some of the orders they had to follow, but they entered with pure intentions.

reply to post by Epiphron



If nobody volunteered they would simply reinstate the draft.

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reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


I appreciate your gratitude. You seem to be a very mature young man, head and shoulders above your peers.
My deepest respect for your grandfather. They were trully the greatest generation this country has known. I wish that I had been part of that generation. My respect for your friends and relatives who serve/d as well.
Sincerely,
Seeashrink

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


I'm sure Hitlers SS gaurds believed they were doing the right thing too.
They, in their minds, were doing what needed to be done for their country.
To us on the outside and many years down the road that is rediculous. "They HAD to know they were doing wrong"!!!!

But wrong in whos eyes? Your and mine. But, at the time they were defending what was in their eyes the future of mankind.

Bottom line.........THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER!!!!! They were held accountable just like our soldiers will be held accountable in this life or the next. There needs to be more education to be sure. Educating the ignorant kids who sign up thinking they are "defending our freedoms",lol. They need to be told that no war has ever defended our freedom because our freedom isn't under attack by anyone besides our own government. If you want to fight for our freedom soooo freakin bad get your ass down to Washington D.C. not Iraq.

In the end, ignorance is no excuse. There will be no sympathy for the death and destruction against innocent civilians.
If you sign on the dotted line and wind up with your legs blown off by an IED you'll have plenty of time to reaserch and find out just how pointless these wars are.

Maybe there should be Wounded soldiers at College campuses stationed right next to the recruters.
Maybe then our ignorant young people will at least be exposed to reality before making the choice to fight an illegal war.

If nobody volunteered they would simply reinstate the draft.

If we refuse to fight then there can be no war. Personally, I choose not to sacrifice the principles that I stand for and live by, out of fear of my government.

Did Martin Luther King throw away his beliefs and convictions when threatened by the state? No. He stayed true to himself and to what he knew was right.

I will not allow the government to coerce me into committing murder on their behalf.
Until Americans stop yielding to the threats of authority, and start using their own free will to do what they know in their hearts to be right, then unfortunately war will continue to take the lives of innocent people around the world.

reply to post by Epiphron


While I can admire you standing up for your principals, sometimes things aren't always that black and white.

en.wikipedia.org...

Refusing to submit the draft is considered a criminal offence in most countries where conscription is in effect. In the United States, refusal is punishable by a maximum penalty of up to 5 years in Federal prison and/or a fine of US$250,000.

That is a hefty price to avoid a draft. Many did feel it was a penalty they couldn't pay. If it were up to a lot of folks who were drafted many more would have dodged it if not for the repurcussions.