Obama: "Profits have to be shared by workers" ... Idiodic Statements for $500 please!

reply to post by gncnew

When they do it by choice (i.e Christmas Bonus, Profit sharing bonus...) it's a perk that attracts highly qualified workers to the company and increases moral/efficiency of existing employees.

When it's regulated it is a cost increasing measure equal to taxes that take the companies ability to pay their people more on a merit base and reduce their ability to expand business.

So if its given as a bonus it "increases moral/efficiency of existing employees", but if its a regulation " it is a cost increasing measure equal to taxes" "and reduce their ability to expand business".

Well thats a Republican statement. I propose we call it a Living Wage BONUS, not a regulation, to increase morale and the efficiency of existing employees. Don't need any new taxes afterall.

If you worry about off-shoring... then let's make it more profitable to keep the jobs in America instead of allowing Chinese slave labor to be the best option.

Treat the problem, not the symptom.

And thats just straight up what we gotta do. I applaud this statement.

This is the most compelling argument I have heard on ATS to UNIONIZE the Chinese labor force! Just as the organized labor movement swept throught this country when we were THE manufacturing nation on the planet, it should sweep the Asian continent. We shouldn't buy from any country that doesnt pay their own a decent living wage.

Problem solved.

New symptom, Wal-mart raises prices on Chinese products. Worth it? That would be up to our sensibilities, and our morals. If we had any.

reply to post by gncnew


Your post spoke volumes on your ignorance, and prejudices, and even your fears, but there is so much weird and just plain fail stuff, in your posts that I wont even go into it. But gonna go into this.

A job is not a right - it's a privilege.

Thats what Lenin and Stalin said, only instead they did it by way of the cool thing that was going around in that part of the world during those times. "Working for the mother Russia, and your fellow comrade is not a right, but a privilege, and all that junk"

A job is a job, it's not a "right" or a "privilege". Its just a "job". # in a couple hundred years this place will either be gone in a cataclysm shift, or another world war, or the aliens might decide to wipe us out, or who the hell knows really, or any number of things that have a possibility of making live not so fun on this planet. Or even if we bypass and overcome all that, then that would just lead to bigger problems, of which politics and rhetoric problems would be like comparing an ant to a mountain.

But even if we become more prosperous and technological and all that we desire, then more problems would ensue some of the more simple ones will be stuff like if we become more technological then every job will slowly and in time be replaced with a robot or biorobot in a more technological future. Thereby making humans obsolete, and your fancy 5 year Harvard degree were you learned a bunch of facts and got a paper degree to show for your time, well it will be able to be downloadable into a workable human free process, in a couple hours at most, who said you cant cram 5 years of data and learning into 5 minutes, he was wrong. Or this whole capitalistic consumer supply and demand trading civilization will turn into something like the Vogons. Ya I like the vogon idea, it's hilarious.


Sorry dude but if it came to be actually about competition and hard work and innovation, or even a more fairer play, notice I said "fairer" because as anybody knows there is no such thing as "fair". Well then I am afraid you will be outworked and out skilled and become obsolete, your not that smart or that great... get over it. Might want to rethink your whole approach and paradigm. Just look at what the Japanese and Chinese did to the great ol USofA in the capitalistic competing market, back when they thought that they would always have a leg up on them, yup they thought wrong, and have been wrong often on many a thing ever since.


And thats why you will not ....... if you want to take it there. Like I said your assuming on a lot of things, and your fear disguises itself as arrogance, But If you know the future and how everything will go down, and how things should be? Then please do tell.

reply to post by gncnew

Thanks for the very insightful and completely useless commentary!

Right....because what I should really be doing is trying my hardest to make the most intelligent post possible in the hopes that everyone who reads it will magically change their entire point of view and see things my way.

Works well for you doesn't it?

Sorry pal...I'm long beyond dissecting someone's nonsensical post line by line...most people are too blinded by their own BS anyway...including yourself.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I have read a few of your threads of conversation with Bigfatfurry, and you two have some good ideas (in my opinon) to turn this country around.

Why don't you two consider Politics?

The trick is to set up the system so that only those who care the most for the group (and who are smart enough to do the job) can ever lead. If you dont do that, if you dont set it up right, you inevitably have the worst of humans rise to the position.

And I believe this can be achieved largley, but not completely, with the removal of money fom the political process. Publicly funded campigns would be a start.

Moving the significant influence of the lobby in D.C. would help. And I do mean 'moving', not 'removing'.

Ban them from the capitol. Physically. None allowed in the city. They would have to win and dine their Senators and Congresspeople in their home state. And compete with regular citizens for their time. Maybe make them come to Town Hall meetings as their only direct form of contact. Make them do all their buisness in public.

PAY THEM MINIMUM WAGE!!
Seriously, pay all Senators and congresspeople the current minimum wage, with regular raises and benefits of course.

Maybe they have their own Union!

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Being such, I would rather see us use good old American ingenuity to set the example for the rest of the world. All wars of aggression should be ceased, and their perpetrators tried for war crimes. This would include just about every person who has served in DC and is still alive....but the population is a little thick and we could use some culling of the elite for the evils they have done.

Based on this, and the subsequent statements, I am writting you in as the next President when I vote next year!

Well, that and I live in Texas too!! Maybe you should look into politics, they have good benefits I hear.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by badgerprints

There are not many small businesses that are doing well. They are being run out of business. The businesses that are doing great are businesses that don't employ many and they are making many of their profits by reducing their overhead by closing down facilities and consolidating with less employees. Meanwhile, laws have made it harder and harder to build facilities that employ laborers.

Small businesses are not doing great for the same reason your average American is not doing great. You have mistaken what side you are on.

You can't tell me what side I am on. You aren't even reading what I'm telling you.

In very simple terms, the corporations are culpable however the politicians are even more so because they were the ones who made the actions of the corporations legal. Obama is one of those who created the legislation that allows the businesses to do what they do. Then he tells you that the "Profits have to be shared by the workers".

This is hypocrisy of the highest order by everybody eats it up! He's lying to you! He and the rest of the DC mafia have already gotten their share and are allowing the businesses to screw you but you still think Uncle Barrys gonna give you some free money.

It's the socialist carrot being held in front of hungry mules by overfed criminals.

Run after it all you want. You'll never get there.

reply to post by gncnew


"They'll re-invest that money into something they think will produce more profits. "

like the cdo's that just crashed?
like commodities futures which, according to some has responsibility for our food prices going skyhigh than anything else???
like moving their manufacturing to other countries?
Like bigger and more lavish corporate offices??
into the republican party?? and the dems party??
just where are they investing their money?
God, when the rich are gambling on our ability to pay our debts and how soon we will die, I think it is time for a bit of restructuring!!!

as far as the big mac bit....
the minimum wage went up a little over a buck I believe? I'd say there is about three people involved in the preparation and delivery of a big mac maybe four. so, well, how many big macs do you reckon these three or four people push out in an eight hour shift? to claim that a two to three dollar raise in prices for the big mac is due to offset the cost of the raise in the minimum wage is ludicrous!! a 5 cent raise in price would be more like it!

I see the typical emotional rhetoric is entering another economic discussion thread. Hmmm, do not argue the merits of the discussion, discuss what you would like to see.

Hmmm, wouldn't be a wonderful world if everyone made the same amount of money and everyone was happy? PFFT.

What about the children? What about the worker? What about get an idea about economics and the REAL WORLD.

It always comes back to this, the socialist mindset that believes that forced outcome will make a better world. Hmmm, how goes all these safety nets and such working out? Truthfully how is it working out? One truth will always be there, there will always be others with more money than you and more power than you.

Capitalism, not crony capitalism is the best system to redistribute the wealth the most evenly. Tie that into a political system where you are actually allowed to keep your property and the citizens will flourish.

But hey, continue on down the road to enslavement for your children and their children, because YOU DESERVE that TV, that Car, that whatever it is you believe you deserve. Who cares if your great grandchildren are paying for it!

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

okay, let's cut the social programs.....
bet we'll see the wages on the lower end go up then!!! after all the workers need roofs over their head and food on the table, or they aren't gonna be very good workers for long!!!
and I bet we will need less doctors, less nurses, less childcare workers, less low income housing, less of alot of things!!!
ya, go for it!!
I am really curious as to what would happen!!! outside of the riots of course!

reply to post by gncnew


With Unions:
Not everybody will be employed and the employees can get 50,000 pa while the CEO on Wall Steet get 10-30 Million + Bonuses for bankrupting the Country and the World

Without Unions:
Everybody will be employed, but you only get 5,000 pa while the CEO on Wall Steet get 10-30 Million +
Bonuses for bankrupting the Country and the World

People should look into what True Socialism is, based off Karl Marx's original manifesto. It hasn't been practiced, so don't go yammering on about how Communism has led to dictatorial regimes. People have some sort of in-grained fear to think that a classless society means some sort of loss of identity. These are the people that stress "I'M A CARPENTER", or "I'M A BANKER". How about being a Human Being. Are you really afraid that if everyone is given the same basic standard of living, that it means you won't be able to work extra and barter for extra luxuries? Or is it American to constantly tell yourself your so much better than the homeless in the streets, because you must be "working harder". If anything Capitalism has led to ignorant, happy slavery. There's some living the dream, but at what expense?

reply to post by dawnstar


Let the riots commence. Let it all burn.

Get er done.

It is always the best debate tactic to say that people will act like petulant 2 year olds if they do not get their way.

"When the people find they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic." BF

By the way, when you print up that 100 Trillionth welfare dollar, if it takes 100 Billion to buy a loaf of bread, you tell me what the next step is.

Emotion belongs no where near a discussion on economics, but you keep using it to obfuscate what we should be discussing.

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Me me me. Blah, blah, blah.

Still, a few more emotional comments instead of logical debate. People, if you are going to ever comment to me, make it something besides emotion. That no longer affects me, it is irrelevant.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!

reply to post by vardlokkur


Marx said that there is NO WAY that socialism could compete with capitalism. Hence the need to first destroy capitalism.

But hey, cherry pick your Marxist books just like you and others cherry pick all data like HISTORY!

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

your underpaid workers goes to the food stamp office for their daily bread.
what would have only cost you a few more bucks, now costs you a whole lot more because there is now an army of people working to divert those few bucks from your pocket to his!

reply to post by gncnew


You are right to point out this ridiculous idea and comment. That Obama! What is he thinking?!
Let us restore to these great states slavery and the plantation owner mentality.

Work for a pittance, without benefits, health insurance, vacations, family leave, or a decent wage.

This is what will bring America back to it's former glory!
At least corporate America will benefit.

Yeah! Let's hear it for slavery!

I have a great idea.
Now all I need are some idiots to do the hard part -
perform the back breaking, mind numbing physical labor.
Any takers?

reply to post by gncnew


When the corporations were not carteled, the labor workers had the chance to hop for the better pay and work condition, but it didn't work. The consumers ended up paying much higher price than they have to, for example, for the gasoline price when the oil companies made a cartel among themselves. The profit in such case was not made from the free market principle. So, Obama's concept of profit sharing with the workers makes sense in a much higher standard of social justice. True democratic capitalism didn't work, I think that was the fundamental problem.

reply to post by gncnew


The OP is correct to point out the invalid statement made by Obama. However, the OP makes the mistake to then glorify corporations. The corporate world is generally greedy and uncaring of people employed as "human resources". In most corporations an employee is no more significant than a widget in a factory. The only way to "get ahead" in corporations today is to sell your soul and willingly sacrifice empathy at the alter of greed.

reply to post by notsoperfect


You realize the Oil Companies pay very little Tax, in some cases None. Because so many products were made from by-products of Oil, all goods were held artifically low. The Public paid the Tax bills, which works as long as everybody is employed. As soon the Unemplyment reaches the tipping point, everything falls apart. But at least the Banksters can still afford their Yachts.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

I am not saying that moving more into a protectionist stance would be bad. but a full move to protectionist tactics would send out delicate and damaged economy toppling. It is a major lesson that led up to the Great Depression, as trade was stifled both ways, leaving the US with little influx of money (stagnation), among other stresses.

BFFT, as I said already, we are bleeding money! We don't get it from abroad, on net basis. Frankly, it's almost like a Ponzi scheme. We borrow more and more from foreign powers and keep a straight face. What influx, seriosuly? Things were different in the first half of 20th century as the country was becoming an industrial powerhouse.

Even worse, we have the added issue of a tarnished flag, and some attractive offers from other nations like China (who will build a whole city for you if you can move in at least 25k jobs). We risk losing major industries if our government goes too far into a protectionist stance.

Why should we care about job creation in China? 25k or 100k? This is way down on my list of priorities today. Attractive or not, I want to see a shop open in Pittsburg, not in Shanghai. What industries do we stand to lose? We don't export too many cars anyhow. We don't make fridges anymore (and we did in 1990). Our software is written by Indian programmers imported to Redmond by Microsoft. The capital in the US was created by hard work and sweat of Americans and now it's been "expatriated" by all means imaginable leaving us high and dry. It just stinks.

I feel confident in whatever faces me, short of an ELE.

I really am happy to hear that. You did well for yourself and it's great. I was in a different line of occupation all my life which makes not as well heeled, even though I worked throughout my life. So no, I don't feel confident even without ELE.

Jobs are a privilege.

You have a right to life and have a right to earn a living , just by being alive. You do not need a job to earn a living. Its seriously saddening that people are programmed to beleive they need a job a to earn a living. You don't. Lack of jobs isnt the problem. Its lack of education. Decent paying jobs are basically going extinct (or will be) because of technology and outsourcing.

Start your own business (invest in yourself and get paid what your worth), being self employed, freelancing, bartering, ect.

You don't need a 9-5 "job" to earn a living. Its going to be tough for a lot of people because change is happening. The transition out of corporate type jobs (this is happening now and will get worse) will be the most difficult for people. Rapid change is happening and right now money can be made rapidly - IF your smart about the economic changes.

People will do whatever they can to hold on to the past while the rest of the world evolves around them. People are afraid of change. And some seriously rough times may be ahead for a lot of people that arent already there now if they're not willing to make changes.

For example, people make a living on eBay and don't need a job. People make 100k a yr on eBay and more. I have an 18 yr old friend that makes $5,000-$10,000 (profit) a day with the interwebz. Maybe if you spend your time to make a living outside of a job instead of complaining on conspiracy sites- the outcome would be much better.

Its said that "you get more of what you focus on". Maybe you need to reevaluate your life if your not living the life you want- if your not living all your dreams. The problem is not the economy. The problem is you.

Or maybe start your own conpsiracy site, put up ads, and make a living that way. Or sell something like one of the many ads are doing on this site. Its a very limiting view believing "jobs" are the only answer to make a living. Not only are they not the only way, its also glorified slavery (imo).

It would be great if everyone necessities were met (like shelter, food , clothing) and I would love to help contribute to something like that.. But unfortunately the government spends our money on destruction like wars, rather than creations like food, shelter, and clothing.

The change starts with you.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by gncnew

 

I hate the word privelage. Once that word is used on anything it can be taken away easily. I am for FDRs second bill of rights. All people have the right to life and earn a living. We need money to live. I like this idea. I think this greedy corparations should give people better pay, better benefits.
It is not fair that some top CEO makes $1 million dollars AND gets a bonus of $100k!
We all have a right to life. simple.