IT'S OFFICIAL: Even conspiracy web sites acknowledge it was flight 77 that hit the Pentagon

reply to post by GoodOlDave

So in other words, Dr. Legge is absolutely correct on everything you want to believe is true, and he's absolutely mistaken on the things you don't want to believe is true. Does that about sum it up?

No GoodOlDave, it is not that I "don't want to believe" what is "true" but, that I have a different opinion on what he, Dr. Legge, 'believes' what is true.

Example: He may not believe that chocolate ice cream taste good and I may think it does. That doesn't mean I don't believe that 'to him' it taste bad, it just means I disagree and think it taste good instead.

If you can understand that, then that sums it up.
Bzzzzzzz

reply to post by topdog30


"Tapes"??

What part of the information from the Solid State Digital Flight Data Recorder is not "convincing enough"??

Setting everything else aside....the airplane parts and debris, bodies, DNA, personal effects, radar tracking, eyewitnesses (both on the ground, and in the air).....WHEN is it ever going to be "enough"??

reply to post by weedwhacker

Oh, there was plenty of debris

I am glad that you are satisfied on what you have seen.

It is only the "conspiracy" mindset that thinks otherwise...."they" seem to believe that every single piece and fragment should have been photographed, and catalogued and posted on the Internet!!

Well "they" as you speak of may have a point. Why shouldn't every single piece and fragment been photographed, cataloged and posted for ALL to see? Can the government not afford the film and time, or just not care enough too? I am sure all the victims families wouldn't have minded not to mention all the investigators and the general concerned public.

Their "logic" is, since "they" can't see "all" of it, then it is a "lie"?? How does that compute?

I am no 'conspiracy theorist' but I understand why "they", in which you speak of, have concerns about feeling lied too, can't you? How does it compute, you will have to ask "them".

Challenge: Show any...just one will do...example of another large airplane crash, where you can point to ALL the photographs, on the Internet, of each and every piece of debris.....ready, set , go!!!

This challenge is, of course, impossible therefore makes no sense. I never said I wanted "every piece of debri" I just said I think there is a "lack of" debri in my opinion.

Thank you for the PDF, it is very 'official', many sheeple just love 'official'.

Here is two pictures of some 727 crash debri, (much smaller airliner then the Pentagon 757), from the infamous crash of 1978 in the San Diego neighborhood that I grew up in. I was 9 when this happened. A pretty big mess.
Free wiki help here.




Anywho, I speak for noone but myself.
Bzzzzzzz

This is the paper published only last month by Frank Legge and a computer expert Warren Stutt. It concerns a decode of the last few seconds from AA 77's flight data recorder :-

www.journalof911studies.com...

Presumably this paper is a major factor in Frank Legge's current acceptance that most likely AA 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

Anyone genuinely seeking the truth should read it. I am not aware of any parts of this paper that have been seriously disputed so far.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by topdog30

 

WHEN is it ever going to be "enough"??

edit on 7 February 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)

When we are given the un-edited pentagon camera footage, gas station tape, and hotel footage. Why cut down the pentagon footage to 5 frames?

reply to post by BuzzingOn


Do you not understand the significant differences, between the PSA flight 182 crash, and American flight 77???

I mean....look, you have all the tools you need, you posted them. Take a better look, and try to understand the way that they are not the same, in any way whatsoever!!

(Hint: Focus on the velocity at impact, for one thing. Of course, most obvious, is the LACK of a large building that was flown into horizontally, too!!).

That's a problem we humans have.

Just because someone has a PhD in something, people automatically take their Theories as Fact. This is totally incorrect.

A theory is a theory no matter who proposes it.

Presenting a theory and claiming it is fact is illogical and incorrect.

The OP presents a theory attempting to explain things. It is not in any way a fact. It has not been proven or verified by actual physical evidence that we the general public are privy to.

Here is how to solve the Pentagon Controversy :
Release some of those 100s of videos that caught the whole event on tape that the Feds confiscated immediately after the crash.

Failure to release such pertinent evidence this many years after the fact, with no legitimate legal reasoning to justify it, just screams red flags.

Until these videos are released, you will see countless theories attempting to fill in the blanks.

Without the video evidence, this will never be resolved. Bickering and debating it hasn't got us anywhere in 10 years, we need the vids.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
Dave, you are making the exact mistake you have been making for the year I've been on ATS; and frankly, I don't believe it's a mistake. You are talking to one small group or "truthers" as if that group encompasses every person who has doubts in the OS. I am not sure why you do this, but it's quite disingenuous. There are a few nutbars who believe there was no plane, but the vast majority of "truthers" accept there was; they simply questions the OS.

On the contrary, I post this specifically to make the point I've been making from day one- the bulk of the research these conspiracy people claim to have done isn't from their own research, but rather from the information they're getting from one or another conspiracy web site, and the individual conspiracy claim they subscribe to depends on the specific conspiracy web site they went to for their information. It's the whole reason that not a single one of you conspiracy theorists can sit down and agree with any other conspiracy theorist, and let's face it, a sincere review of the facts is NOT going to prove the attack was staged by secret cults of Satan worshipping numerologists. Someone came up with that idea becuase they were already suckered by the idea of secret cults of Satan worshipping numerologists beforehand, so of course they're going to review web sites that claim the attack was staged by secret cults of Satan worshipping numerologists.

You can call them "nutbars"...but they are calling YOU a nutbar. How would I as a bystander know who was right?

Thanks for the chuckle Dave. You did exactly what Invisible Albatross and TheLieWeLive said you did. You lumped all "Truthers" into one group.
"Dr. Legge is basing his position upon evidence that you conspiracy people keep insisting doesn't exist."

That's your quote from later on in the thread Dave. You DID put all truthers into one group.

Not all "Truthers" think that it was something else besides a plane that flew into the Pentagon. Truthers don't believe the OS put forth by the Govt; that 9/11 was a bolt-out-of-the-blue surprise attack upon the US by Muslim terrorists. And that, (the OS), we know is a lie.

So you see, while you may want to help find the truth about what happened that day by showing studies that support the plane in pentagon theory; please remember that in so doing you should also help by proposing other theories that haven't been dis-proven.

reply to post by muzzleflash

Without the video evidence...

I repeat:

Why are the SSFDR, eyewitnesses, ATC radar tracking data, debris, DNA....etc not "good enough"??

Many, many, many....(most, actually) airplane crashes occur, and there is no video record of any osrt, of the occurrence. Yet, they are not "questioned".

Why?? This is not any different, except inasmuch as being a criminally intent act.

reply to post by Freezer


Why cut down the pentagon footage to 5 frames?

its the only part that doesnt discredit the official story .

Here is a theory, and I don't necessarily believe this, it's just a possibility I speculated about.

What if they don't want to release the videos , not because it wasn't an passenger plane (it could have been a passenger plane we don't know that yet), but what if the true reason is deeper and more complex.

What if this is being used as some sort of psychological litmus test?

What if they are simply gauging our reasoning skills and our reactions and examining them?

What if their main goal is to make us "THINK" they are "HIDING SOMETHING" by refusing the release the goods, in order to just make us reject our government's pointless treachery?

You know how the old "NWO theory" goes, the elite want to make Americans reject their government so that we will accept a global form of government? Kissinger said supposedly, they would have people in the streets demanding UN intervention into our crisis.

What if this is just another drop in the bucket? Another reason to add to the list of purposely created and false reasonings perpetrated only for the sole purpose of making us revolt and get rid of this "Constitutional Republic" form of government? And usher in a new globalized system in a quick mad dash to find SOMETHING to replace it with, anything.

And then true problem-reaction-solution style, they offer us the answer on a platter. But this answer has been carefully designed and molded for decades and very well could be a full return of Aristocratic Tyranny.

This reason this would be a trick I think, is because it makes us reject our "really crappy but manageable" society into a very likely possibility of a "totally unmanageable collapse into violence" that a global government system would create at this point in time.

Oh I could go on forever about possibilities on "why they would fake faking it". It's an interesting scenario we don't examine enough, IMHO.

So not only could it have been a plane, but they might be purposefully withholding the 100s of allegedly existing videos for the singular purpose of being a jerk. This is possible, most gov't people are jerks actually in real life. It's not that far out actually, it's really down to Earth.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Without the video evidence...

I repeat:

Why are the SSFDR, eyewitnesses, ATC radar tracking data, debris, DNA....etc not "good enough"??

Many, many, many....(most, actually) airplane crashes occur, and there is no video record of any osrt, of the occurrence. Yet, they are not "questioned".

Why?? This is not any different, except inasmuch as being a criminally intent act.

Actually though Weedwhacker, when there is video evidence of a plane crash, it's played over and over for the public. When there is multiple videos of the same crash, all videos are played over and over again (e.g. WTCs). In the case of the Pentagon we have only the 5 sec., parking lot video. I guess that means that that is the only video camera that sees the approach and that side of the pentagon. Absolutely no other cameras in D.C. caught the plane on film that day. Would you agree?

The easy way to clear all this up, is to release all trhe photos from the pentagon. Its the end of the story then. So why wont they release them??? If they released those photos then perhaps all the truthers would believe the OS. Which is a crock in my opinion.

reply to post by muzzleflash


You are getting deep there lol , Hey no harm exploring every possibility . I think though they wont release the tapes because they are scared of the consequences . Remember tensions are high now and if we could prove 911 100% was an inside job , then there could be a serious rebellion ahead .
Its not just us muzzle , tptb will be scared of the army and police changing sides , tptb want these to establish a nwo not oppose it . we have the numbers they have the tyranny ready .

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Without the video evidence...

I repeat:

Why are the SSFDR, eyewitnesses, ATC radar tracking data, debris, DNA....etc not "good enough"??

Many, many, many....(most, actually) airplane crashes occur, and there is no video record of any osrt, of the occurrence. Yet, they are not "questioned".

Why?? This is not any different, except inasmuch as being a criminally intent act.

They could have faked a million good believable hoaxes and gave us a video by now just to shut us up.

Why can't the government act logically and just solve the problem? What kind of management style is this? Aren't administrators suppose to identify a problem and take action to remedy it? When it involves people asking them questions it seems quite relevant.

A logical problem solving government would realize they need to offer something to quiet the storm brewing, even if it is a "false storm based on fantasy" rather than a real storm based on real problems. But it's still a REAL STORM because those people will be believing in unsound information and thus will make unsound conclusions. And this leads people to becoming crazy with false beliefs and thus our living standards depreciate over time.

You could fake the video. So what type of "government" lets crazies run around with false impressions? This is poor management form. It would be so easy to fake too with even modest resources.

They claim to have tons of videos. They are classified though, and not privy to just anyone. Why? If it's just a plane hitting a building, there can't be a single possible logical reason to withhold it. Something doesn't add up, it's a red flag.

Now, this could mean many of several different things. Either they are hiding what really happened, or they are pretending to hide it to upset the population purposefully. But hiding something that is totally mundane and normal with no security risks attached, makes no sense. It's been a decade now. What gives?

Mundane Airplane Crash + Videotape = Classified Eyes Only National Security Secrets ???

The inference rules do not prove a valid semantic formula. This is unsound.

There must be an explanation for the anomaly...

reply to post by The Baby Seal Club

Absolutely no other cameras in D.C. caught the plane on film that day.

That would be a correct statement.

Some cameras captured the 'flash' of the impact. But, there just weren't any others to have a chance, in the correct direction, to video or film the airplane itself, except for that chance guard gate video, that happened to have the wide-angle fish-eye lens. and thus, a wide field of view background.

I would presume, in any event, that regardless....IF there WERE something as clear, and undeniable as, say, the United 175 video and stills??

It would still not shut up the "no-planers"!!!. As evidenced by the myriad and ridiculous "discussions" about NYC impacts.....truly, it is a self-delusion of some staggering proportions....

reply to post by weedwhacker


You mention eyewitnesses, should we trust anyones word? what if they lie? it happens you know, and is still not proof.
Proof would be a full video film, that experts could scrutinize as to the authenticity, photoshop pro type folk.
But it seems the only vid we get is a 5 frame gif, weird huh?
You say dna, was there any dna? who collected said dna and where is said dna? i really don't remember any dna, but i never got that far seeing the pinhole in the side of the pentagon that "they" called a planehole.

reply to post by weedwhacker


You mention that of all of the cameras maybe dozens, hundreds, that none except the pentagons were able to catch anything, fine, then let us see.
You mention that would still not quell us, we can never know if that were true as we will never see the footage.
Ok, i'm done wasting my time on this topic as the real perpetrators will NEVER be prosecuted and i see this post as a distraction from real issues.
Yes 911 is a non issue as the truth will never see the light of day as any proof is somewhere buried in America.
What we need to do now is be ever vigilant of future events and keep a debacle such as 911 from ever happening again.

reply to post by g146541


Your right about witnesses , if you offer enough of a bribe they ll say what you want .
like if you torture someone enough you can get them to confess to anything .

This is why you have to verify if everything the crooked gvmnt claims is true !

Originally posted by weedwhacker


It would still not shut up the "no-planers"!!!. As evidenced by the myriad and ridiculous "discussions" about NYC impacts.....truly, it is a self-delusion of some staggering proportions....

Hmm, comparing one event with full video feeds to an event with no video feed at all.
Illogical argument.

Throwing in derogatory terminology intended to trivialize any attempt at reasoning, investigation, or questioning.
Insult added to injury.

That's 2 for 2.

Have you any rational position to justify your disagreement, or are you merely ranting based on your preconceived notions and beliefs?

I do not know what happened. You however, seem unjustifiably convinced in your views.

We don't have all the facts yet. A lot are still classified documents. We simply don't know either way, what really happened. We just know the math doesn't add up so well, and want to find the missing parameters to make sense of it all.

But to hear the way you spin it, it sounds like it's a freaking crime to merely ask a few questions to make sense of an anomaly.