Report: Taliban Not Allied With Al-Qaida

reply to post by zerbot565


Actually what is ironic here, the poster in question you are responding too, seems to be promoting an argument that Al-Quida is real, but misunderstood as a very loose disorganized group of mercenaries and fundamentalists, that is hard to combat as a result.

Meanwhile said poster claims to be a mercenary himself with self stated strong fundamentalist beliefs revolving around his own ideals.

It's kind of a pot wants to fight the kettle argument.

An argument they want to promote based on some fundamental ideals of courage, and valor, and basic security, yet basically wanting paid for it, as a profession, that is not a means to an end, but a way of life unto itself.

When you break it down further to consider that such people rarely have an accurate political or social grasp of the people they are getting paid to terrorize and kill, and they are doing it solely because they are getting paid, then good intentions pretty much go out the window.

These really just are thugs arguing for a way of life that allows them to earn a living killing others.

No virtue in that at all.

Hello...

But we already knew that right, or is that the blind are simply not informed and due and as an obligation i felt compelled to reply here. Hey..before quoting me. make sure you are in tune here.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Just because someone has fought and killed, it doesn’t make them an immoral automaton whose sole purpose is to kill others. Neither does it mean that they do that job specifically to kill others and if that were the case then they are likely to be disappointed, or worse.

I would say that you are acutely aware of political and social aspects, because it is part of your job to have an intricate understanding of the people that you are fighting against and the people that you are fighting for. In Afghanistan for example, killing “baddies” is a very small part of the job.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3f1cbdcdf99c.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Soshh

Originally posted by purplemer
it is sick Al-Quaeda dont even exist. origianaly termed on the bbc if i recollect correctly

kx

The point of the BBC documentary that I believe you are referring to, was that AQ is not and has never been an enormous and clear-cut organisation, and that certain politicians over-simplified AQ and exaggerated the threat that they pose in order to pursue a “War on Terror”.

It exists, but it has often been portrayed inaccurately by people who either couldn’t get their heads around it or were trying to manipulate others.

Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that "Al Qaeda" is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan.

nationalsocialistbritain.blogspot.com...

it exists in the minds of all off us...
kx

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by zerbot565

 

Actually what is ironic here, the poster in question you are responding too, seems to be promoting an argument that Al-Quida is real, but misunderstood as a very loose disorganized group of mercenaries and fundamentalists, that is hard to combat as a result.

Almost accurate, Proto. The only thing you've misunderstood me on there is that al Quaida has "mercenaries". I don't believe they do. Everything else you say there pretty accurately sums up my belief in the matter.

Meanwhile said poster claims to be a mercenary himself with self stated strong fundamentalist beliefs revolving around his own ideals.

Not "is", rather "was". I'm a Security Consultant now, a legitimate business man!

But yeah, I've got strong beliefs and ideals, same as you or anyone else. I'm not entirely sub-human, you know! Well, maybe not so much "ideals" these days. Those for the most part got pretty well burned out of me, but the "beliefs" part still stands pretty strongly, I'd imagine.

It's kind of a pot wants to fight the kettle argument.

It could be fairly said that nearly EVERY altercation is a "pot vs. kettle" argument, so I can't contest what you say here. I just defend the pots and kettles in MY cabinet, and expect that the opposition believes themselves to be doing the same for THEIR cabinet.

I look out for my own, same as anyone with any sort of backbone to 'em does.

An argument they want to promote based on some fundamental ideals of courage, and valor, and basic security, yet basically wanting paid for it, as a profession, that is not a means to an end, but a way of life unto itself.

Not exactly. There really ain't all that much courage and valor involved when the lead flies. It's more reaction and survival. The "courage and valor" only comes into play as concepts when leisure time is available and the hot grease isn't flowing. "Courage and valor", no. Doing what needs done in spite of misgivings and fear? That's closer to the mark.

Getting paid is just the way it goes. Even your National Service soldiers get paid - thy just agree to a different contract, generally for less, although I've known some of those evil mercs to do their deeds gratis, on principle. That's also why some contracts get turned down cold, whatever the pay - principle. That's not a luxury that your basic National Service soldier has, and I feel for 'em on that account. Go figure. It's not a "way of life". Y'all play nice and stop throwing your silly little wars, and we'll stop coming to them. No profit then, neither financial nor moral. We're just as happy going back to the plow.

When you break it down further to consider that such people rarely have an accurate political or social grasp of the people they are getting paid to terrorize and kill, and they are doing it solely because they are getting paid, then good intentions pretty much go out the window.

That's one way of looking at it.

The opposition's way.

Again, it's not always about the pay - that's not "the sole reason" for engaging. I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, though, considering your general, blindered outlook. It's no more "for the pay" than it is for cops and such. There are FAR easier ways to gather a check than getting shot at. FAR easier.

These really just are thugs arguing for a way of life that allows them to earn a living killing others.

No virtue in that at all.

Yeah.

Same as all those other folks you're willing to pay to do your killing. What do you care, really? Keeps YOUR hands unsullied, don't it?

Tell me all about your "moral superiority" and the inherent "virtue" in paying off others to do the dirty work rather than getting blood all over YOUR nice new britches.

reply to post by nenothtu

Same as all those other folks you're willing to pay to do your killing. What do you care, really? Keeps YOUR hands unsullied, don't it?

Once again a poor guess, though I can see why you would be tempted to make such an assumption.

Proto has been going around and around with the IRS on this matter for years, and Proto hasn't contributed a dime towards these phony wars.

That's right I risk incraceration and prosecution to follow my moral code, because that is what courage is in fact all about.

Taking risks to do what you believe is right.

No I don't pay for these wars my friend, I never have and I never will.

I realize to not be part of the problem you must be part of the solution, and I focus on just being part of the solution.

The truth is the shadowy network some posters to this thead operate and run with, would love nothing more to denigrate honest, decent people who seek peace in the world as some kind of cowardly and hypocrite threat or fools.

Yet the truth is they know there arguments are so weak they need to operate a shadowy network of their own just to have any hope at all that they might appear legitimate.

They are simply arguing for a way of life that proftis off of war, by trying to make it seem wise and virtuous while it is neither.

They don't make us safer they make us less secure, and it's evidenced in the scorn they treat the people with who question the honesty and wisdom of using violence, brute force, coercion, propaganda and shadowy networks of people who really only care about making a buck at the expense of others.

No I am not one of the others they are making a buck off of, never have been and never will be, and real courage is having the aplumb to speak to the truth.

The truth of a shadowy network of posters right here on ATS who will do anything to promote the security industrial complex because they make there living off of it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


"These wars"? Why limit it to them? I didn't.

Do you mean you've NEVER paid taxes, neither federal or local? Does your "virtue" lead you to shirk that particular civic duty, then?

I reckon if you have shirked that duty, then it's OK to call me a bloody murderer, for you.

Just another pot vs. kettle morality contest.

Take heart, though! If your hands really are that "clean", then you get to call me "murderer", which is something even my wife never got away with!

Give me lessons, Proto. How DOES one get away with NEVER - in an entire life - paying taxes, either federal, state, or local?

Damn shame you've never been overseas - I can say that with a straight face, since I KNOW how closely IRS watches money flow across the borders...

reply to post by nenothtu


Whilst I agree with your view on Soshh's post, I have to point out that the post in question pretty much makes Lucidity's point, that being that people the West views as Al Qaeda members don't blow themselves up, suckers who think they're Al Qaeda members do.

The fact that we have suicide bombers owes everything to the brilliance of the Israeli counter bomb measures, Saddam Hussein's insistence on paying the families of suicide bombers a bounty of more than they could ever hope to earn goes a long way to explain his demise.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Proto has been going around and around with the IRS on this matter for years, and Proto hasn't contributed a dime towards these phony wars.

That's right I risk incraceration and prosecution to follow my moral code, because that is what courage is in fact all about.

So...
You're a dead beat...
Figures

I do have a question...
ProtoplasmicTraveler will Proto be making an appearance in this thread anytime soon to speak on their behalf or will you continue to speak for them in their stead? I'd like to hear it from the horses rear err um mouth that is. Don't get me wrong I do appreciate you speaking on his/her behalf.

I realize to not be part of the problem you must be part of the solution, and I focus on just being part of the solution.

By not contributing to the whole then you are admitting to being a potentially worthless appendage. Which could be viewed by some as needing to be amputated so as not to spread your self serving apathy...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

That's right I risk incraceration and prosecution to follow my moral code, because that is what courage is in fact all about.

Taking risks to do what you believe is right.

Agreed.

The truth is the shadowy network some posters to this thead operate and run with, would love nothing more to denigrate honest, decent people who seek peace in the world as some kind of cowardly and hypocrite threat or fools.

Seeking peace is an admirable quest. Recognizing the futility of that search is wisdom. Simply put, there are folks out there who just won't allow that. They'll poke, prod, and push, until you do what you have to do.

That's not always peaceful.

They are simply arguing for a way of life that proftis off of war, by trying to make it seem wise and virtuous while it is neither.

Wise and virtuous, no. Necessary at times, yes.

They don't make us safer they make us less secure, and it's evidenced in the scorn they treat the people with who question the honesty and wisdom of using violence, brute force, coercion, propaganda and shadowy networks of people who really only care about making a buck at the expense of others.

I'd hate to live in your neighborhood. Are you telling me that the folks your neighbors pay to keep the peace, but who you skip out on the check for, aren't keeping that peace, and in fact are making you LESS secure? You really ought to fire those bums, then, but of course you can't since you don't employ them to begin with.

Cops around here do a pretty good job, so I'm satisfied with my neighborhood, warts and all. You can meet violence with daisies all day long if you like. Let me know how that works out for you - if you're still able to when it comes to that.

No I am not one of the others they are making a buck off of, never have been and never will be, and real courage is having the aplumb to speak to the truth.

Pity. You can only fire them for doing an improper job if you've employed them to begin with. Can't withhold a check you ain't giving in the first place.

The truth of a shadowy network of posters right here on ATS who will do anything to promote the security industrial complex because they make there living off of it.

I like you, Proto. You sound like a man that does his own killing, rather than asking others to provide that security - assuming the above quote is truthful, that you don't rely on any external security mechanisms.

reply to post by SLAYER69


How funny I see you couldn't stay good to your word as usual and actually refrain from posting in the thread.

Proto fights the real enemy, an out of control government that robs people of their liberties and money in the name of some vague threat and illusion of security.

I always have my friend, since I was 13 years old.

Why because I have an absolute moral obligation to do so.

But hey you go pick on some goat herders with stone huts, while I will pick on the most powerful, well financed, coordinated entities on the planet.

Water seeks it's own level.

reply to post by Thepreye


I stand corrected. AQ doesn't blow themselves up, they enable affiliates to do so. A small distinction, but perhaps an important one. Does that then make them innocent? Do we need to just leave them alone, and let them continue on their merry way, free of guilt?

reply to post by nenothtu

Do you mean you've NEVER paid taxes, neither federal or local? Does your "virtue" lead you to shirk that particular civic duty, then?

Sorry you aren't talking with one of the slaves of the corporate government.

In fact I have spent hours and hours at the IRS office over the years asking them to produce where I have a personal contractual obligation to fund in part the United States Inc and they have never been able to do so.

Social Duty as opposed to Civic Duty requires you only do what you can to help those that you wish too and can.

I owe the government nothing, it has never done anything for me, and I have never asked it to do so either.

I did not grant it's charter, and I played no part in the formulation of it's laws, nor do I have any representation within it.

Since I am not represented in the Government, recieve no services from the Government, did not decree the existence of the Government, no I really as a free and natural human being born on the planet Earth have any obligation to it.

Nor would I be able to imagine why I would want to support a corporation that might as well be known as Murder Inc.

In fact the government has laid claim to such resources and lands, that it should be able to fund itself through the sale, rent and lease of those things and pay it's people a dividend.

Instead they tax them as corporate property and utilize the people as free range slaves in a murderous system that sustains itself as a violent mercenary endeavor.

You would really have to be out of your mind or just stone cold stupid to pledge allegiance and voluntarily fund and obey such an enterprise. Not to mention have absolutely no self respect.

Thanks!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto yer a deadbeat plain and simple.Sorry I don't buy the moral obligation crap that's just an excuse to skip out on your obligation as a citizen.

I just want to add to this post...

Well No Sh*t..
We on ATS.. well most of us..... well some of us knew this from the beginning.. When the Taliban told the US they would hand Bin Laden over willingly if they gave sufficient proof that Bin Laden was in fact behind the attacks on 9/11..

Instead of giving sufficient proof of Bin Laden being behind the attacks of 9/11 we went in and bombs the crap out of their country. From this point we realized something was up..

Anyway...

Originally posted by lonegurkha
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Proto yer a deadbeat plain and simple.Sorry I don't buy the moral obligation crap that's just an excuse to skip out on your obligation as a citizen.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I am not a citizen, I am a free and sovereign human being, and owe absolutely no allegiance to any God or Government.

I will happily render payment for any service or product I order, purchase or contract for.

If I have not ordered, purchased or contracted for a service then no, I owe no one anthing and thus am not a dead beat.

See how that works.

You want to be a free range slave of a murderous government with 600,000 laws, that murders and invades nations to steal their resources for corporate oligarchs.

You want to pay for all that, and you want to pat yourself on the back for it.

You go right ahead.

I want to end this system and you can't feed the beast and do that.

You want to fight religious zealots and goat herders and poor simple people.

I want to free the planet of the tyranny of a murderous group of oligarchs who operate a world wide shadow government.

Yes I have an absolute moral obligation to do that, and no, under no circumstances will I feed the beast.

It's very simple, most have simply been programmed with these societal constructs as bonds to keep you enslaved to murderous notions and systems that serve only a very small percentage of people at the very top.

That's your right to squander your life that way, but I am here to tell you there is another bill that you can't skip out on and it's called Karma.

You reap what you sew, and those who live by the sword shall die by it.

It's very simple.

reply to post by lonegurkha


Maybe if tax was used for the purposes it was supposed to , you would have a case but the fact is it isn't . Were in the middle of mass unemployment do they lower the taxes to ease the burden ? Nope ! The credit crisis did not affect the massive companies only the average man . Why should Pacifists have to fund a bloodthirsty tyrant of a government ? Why should proto pay tax when his government lets trillion of dollars unaccounted for POOF vanish into thin air !
That was probably money used to implement depopulation eugenics false flags, torture etc etc black ops .

They don't need our money , the federal reserve is the real bloodsucking parasite here . That is One of your problems not protos right to not acknowledge the government .

I say hes right and we are only feeding this brute we should starve it to death .

Ummmm..this had been obvious from day one. The Taliban are fighting for control of Afghanistan, not because they hate the U.S and our freedom (though I am sure their idea of freedom is crap, but so is ours currently) but because they were the "legitimate" government their beforehand.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I take that to mean then that you have NEVER paid any taxes, neither federal, state or local, right? You seem to have not addressed that question in a straightforward manner.

Why did you spend all that time at the IRS office? If you've nothing to do with them, and they've nothing to do with you, why all that interaction, then? I presume a like amount of time has been spent convincing state and local authorities that since you have no use for police, fire, and trash pickup - and such like services, you are entitled to skip out on "debts" to them which you have never incurred, either.

Then there's property ownership and taxation, but I suppose one who owns nothing at all would be exempt from that as well. Maybe there's a lot of truth in the old song that "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose". I reckon if you've got nothing, there's not much they can hold over your head to force compliance.

I salute you, sir, on being able to get by on nothing!

reply to post by nenothtu


That's ok, I just think when talking around complex issues it helps to have a correct understanding of the issue under discussion, it avoids unnecessary arguments in an area where we are bound to have pertinent arguments, I've noted some piss poor comprehension skills in this thread folk arguing against a poster when they themselves don't actually know what the other poster actually said.