Some ATSers need a lesson in Critical Thinking

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Did it take a lot of critical thought to post a youtube video someone else made, to clarify a point? A critical thinker should be able to illustrate her point without relying upon the work of another to do so.

Who wants to be taking advice from someone on a topic in which he has shown none of the critical thinking he would like to see himself!

In fact, your OP almost illustrates that of which you are decrying.

I see this very differently. The OP realized that the point was made clearly by someone else already, and since it is about the message and not the brilliance of the messenger, he/she simply posted the message. Very efficient, and certainly delivers the intended point.

I suggest you rethink your proposal here.

reply to post by Nick_X


Hello Nick_X.

A caveat: What follows here is a disjointed series of thoughts offered for your consideration. The focus of these thoughts is, primarily, Individuality, and the contents of the interactive toolbox being employed.

TLDR

***************************************

When Individuality is factored into any mix, I have found that the results can prove to be marvelously UNpredictable. For me Nick_X, it’s this very unpredictability which provides a large measure of the richness underlying the words being presented; often providing an actual glimpse into the world of the speaker. This premise, from my own standpoint, provides a more complete picture of the subject matter being offered. But I have also found that what the reader of those thoughts is “looking for” determines, in large part, the measure of reward gleaned.

Put another way… Critical Thinking is, for some, an enviable and acquired skill. However, not everyone can regiment their thoughts in what could be considered as being an orderly manner that is “preferred” by some. In my own experience I have concluded that digging a bit deeper with one of several interactive approaches populating my toolbox can yield riches whose very presence was totally unsuspected when other more singular interactive strategies were employed.

The writer and/or speaker who employs a Critical Thinking approach provides a method of shepherding the reader’s attention track; supplying a desired direction for the reader’s thinking process to proceed. But simply dismissing a disjointed and rambling treatise can result in the reader missing out on what is not necessarily obvious or even “hidden”; hidden only because of the interactive strategy being employed, and the very parameters set by that strategy. For me, this is the point where a slightly more "patient" interactive strategy could be considered...

But on occasion, I guess I simply prefer herding cats – for I have found there’s much in the vein of fun to be encountered when unpredictability rears its head.

Nick_X, I truly understand your occasional frustration when encountering what could be considered as being undisciplined presentations. But I have found that [very subtly] relaxing your grip on any given interactive strategy can yield all sorts of rewarding "possibilities".

And I sincerely thank you for listening to my own rambling diatribe.

Mindpeace

p.s. Star and Flag by the way.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


It started the discussion. What more was it supposed to do?

Oh, and the only reason I even know what Les Mislerables (I probably spelled it wrong, but who gives a sh*t) is because they made a play out of the thing and the commercials for it ran on TV for like 5 years. I know it's French because of the name of the damn thing, and I know it's set in the 1700s or 1800s because of the clothes I see in the TV ads. Other than that, the story doesn't even exist in my experience of life.

Maybe it's a classic, but as a commercial message, the book tanks. The OP seems to be trying to get a message across. He's not building a goddamn cathedral.

You avatar suits you, by the way. Just like mine suits me.

Unfortunately, it's hard to image someone watching this video and having the epiphany: "Oh, I should think about things carefully and deeply in order to understand the nuances and complexities of reality so that I may express a well-informed and appropriately sophisticated position which I understand and have confidence in." I predict that the daft among us will persist in blissful ignorance.

Worth the attempt though, I suppose.

reply to post by Nick_X
What do you mean "some"?

There is literally almost as much establishment propaganda on ATS as there is on corporate media forums. This place is a joke.

Originally posted by delicatessen
in my experience, 90% of ATSers are aspiring philosophers, NOT mathematicians. and emotional romantics. that includes erra-body in this thread. "deductive reasoning" isnt really a strong feature of this board. it`s especially adorable when folks here mistake exercises in creative writing for deductive logic. but whatever, i love ATS just the way it is.

I agree with you about how precious some of these folks are, but when I see a kid asking (seemingly seriously) about how to view something as foundational to his/her way of dealing with life as the nature of reality itself, and a crowd of navel gazers leap on the thread with YouTube clips and other marketing material that heavy-hands the poor kid with stuff that has no basis at all in reality, I think "That poor kid. Now he won't even believe the moon still exists if he doesn't keep his eye on it.", and I shake my head at what can happen to derail a mind that's just starting to suspect that there's more to the world than what his mom told him.

I've been taking some of these liars on recently, and I actually feel bad about snapping at them, but I also know that there's no possible way that some of these characters are posting anything but flat out lies. "Oh yeah, you'll know what I'm talking about when you leave your body and astral to the 8th dimension. It'll answer all these questions you're having, but in the meantime, here's 20 links that will guide you to wisdom and enlightenment. I'm going to U2U here as soon as I post, too. So, what city did you say you're located in?" It's like watching a runaway teenager get led off from the downtown LA bus terminal and knowing that it's not a Hollywood talent scout that just opened the car door for her.

Maybe reality and perception is fun and games for some of these folks, but not everyone that's looking for guidance is looking for fun and games. Some of them are looking for a foothold or a handhold, as everything they ever knew to be true has just slipped out from under them in their lives. Some of them really need a shot of reality, and not the bullsh*t make-believe "reality" that insists that we can reconfigure the elements around us and within us if only we can become holy enough to make it happen. Someone who's in dire need of stabilization sure as hell doesn't need some ego maniac who claims to have God on speeddial for astral OBE weekends "out of town" to tangle him up with all that pretty sounding crap. That's exciting stuff for a young mind, and really exciting for a young mind that's just had the normalcy kicked out of it. But it's not true, and who knows the ultimate impact on the development of that mind if it gets stuck in that mud on its way back to a normal real.

Critical thinking is necessary. A rogue "Quantum Theorist" who's proposing that reality is as fluid as mercury is actually employing Critical Thinking as he crafts the bag of crap that he's got slated for publication once the typos get sorted out. His Critical Thinking is focused on the suckers who'll buy the book and book him for speaking engagements, and all the money that'll let him quit his day job. And don't think for a second that someone who works out his preso in front of a full length mirror is doing anything but critically thinking as he gets his PowerPoint clicks and drama sweeps down for showtime.

It's entertainment and that's all it is. Just try keeping these geniuses from riffing over top of each other when you get them in a room together. Not as bad as the quietly calculating one-upmanship in a gaggle of gurus, but then, those characters have thousands of years of teachers to show them how to shine in public. Frankly, I'm amazed at how much like the music business this all really is.

So----you guys are attacking this guy for using someone else's smarts?

All of you - undress, get out of your houses, ditch your car, and get off the computer and stop talking. You didn't come up with any of that, and by using it you are clearly compromising your own ability to think and reason.

Silliness people. Silliness.

reply to post by Nick_X


Hey Nick, I don't have time to watch your video, but I just wanted to say that I think this is a great thread. the Superbowl was a great game too. I enjoyed the commercials.

Why is everyone staring at me?

Why rethink it? It is simply an opinion, nothing more, and nothing on this thread has changed my opinion. I must have some valid points to have garnered such trollish insults and behavior from some of the members here, though.

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Did it take a lot of critical thought to post a youtube video someone else made, to clarify a point? A critical thinker should be able to illustrate her point without relying upon the work of another to do so.

Who wants to be taking advice from someone on a topic in which he has shown none of the critical thinking he would like to see himself!

In fact, your OP almost illustrates that of which you are decrying.

I see this very differently. The OP realized that the point was made clearly by someone else already, and since it is about the message and not the brilliance of the messenger, he/she simply posted the message. Very efficient, and certainly delivers the intended point.

I suggest you rethink your proposal here.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


"I must have some valid points to have garnered such trollish insults and behavior from some of the members here, though"

Actually sweetheart it was your invalid points that garnered such "trollish insults"


It all started with your original post where you missed the context of the OP .

.

I disagree, I understand the point OP was attempting to make. I offered my opinion on it, as is the way debates play out. Nothing that has ensued has changed it either.

I am beginning to feel you have a crush on me, I haven't heard so many kind words (sweetheart angel face) in quite some time. *blush

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I disagree, I understand the point OP was attempting to make. I offered my opinion on it, as is the way debates play out. Nothing that has ensued has changed it either.

I am beginning to feel you have a crush on me, I haven't heard so many kind words (sweetheart angel face) in quite some time. *blush

"I am beginning to feel you have a crush on me, I haven't heard so many kind words (sweetheart angel face) in quite some time. *blush "


That picture is beautiful . what can i say ? mezmerising eyes im a sucker for them

i just wish your reason and logic were up to par with your elegance

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I disagree, I understand the point OP was attempting to make. I offered my opinion on it, as is the way debates play out. Nothing that has ensued has changed it either.

I am beginning to feel you have a crush on me, I haven't heard so many kind words (sweetheart angel face) in quite some time. *blush

You do have very nice lips!

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Why rethink it? It is simply an opinion, nothing more, and nothing on this thread has changed my opinion. I must have some valid points to have garnered such trollish insults and behavior from some of the members here, though.

Oh, I don't know. I've drawn plenty of troll action with posts that contain nothing valid in information or novelty whatsoever. In fact, I do that quite a bit.

S&F, most wonderful thought to bring that information directly out and place it in front of everyone here to look at and respond to... i agree completely with this OP and the video, although to myself is common knowledge, i thought was very well done... i especially like the information regarding 'black and white' thinking... i do tend to see a lot of that here, and it is sad IMO that some are not open to being wrong, or having the wrong idea, instead open the mind to the truth, even if you previously believed it false... i myself consider my mind to be a sponge, i think and have my own ideas yes, but if someone comes along and presents an idea i am always willing to consider it...

One man's garbage post in another's treasured post. Who is one to decide which post receives the garbage post label, as OP calls these vague unnamed posts.

The individual is the best one to decide which posts to consider and which posts not to consider, I for one dont need anyone else defining garbage post for me.