Some ATSers need a lesson in Critical Thinking

I am seeing a growing trend of Off Topic Posts, Personal Rants, and general non-use of the brain when ATS members take part in threads.

I personally do not enjoy scrolling through garbage posts just to read one or two good, thought provoking posts per page of a thread. I hope that some of you can identify your mistakes and make an effort to learn and grow - and perhaps some of you lurkers can wisen up before putting your voice forward.

For you all I provide you an excellent video on Critical Thinking produced by a youtuber well known for his non-bias, well constructed, easy to understand presentations. Enjoy

Excellent presentation. There are a few people that could do watching that a few times, they pack a lot into it. It is the type of thinking we need if we are to get past some of these complex challenges. Black and white thinking only goes so far as demonstrated by the breakdown of BNF logic as the rule set expands. Learning how to be comfortable with uncertainty is going to be a real challenge for some people. Patience is the most important thing until the picture becomes clearer.

Did it take a lot of critical thought to post a youtube video someone else made, to clarify a point? A critical thinker should be able to illustrate her point without relying upon the work of another to do so.

Who wants to be taking advice from someone on a topic in which he has shown none of the critical thinking he would like to see himself!

In fact, your OP almost illustrates that of which you are decrying.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Great Point hotbakedtater, but I do have a reason for doing what I did.

There is a phenomenon on the internet called TLDR which I factored into my post
(Too Long Didn't Read)

I hypothesized that if I presented the entire lesson in text format, it would not reach the desired audience. So therefore I presented this clearly understandable, semi-entertaining video production instead.

I agree,. It's gotten pretty illogical and disorganized around here. Sometimes it looks like a bunch of hamsters on an exercise wheel that's going ever faster as some fly off. Thanks for the reminder.

I don't see any lack of critical thought in the OP, although there might be some in the analysis of the premise.

critical thinking is good,
but it cant be the only form of thinking,
too many sparks come from creative thinking,
if we only thought critically we'd be pretty boring and static,
we would always stop, unchallenged, to make the dreams actually work.

S&F by the way,

That sounds like a group of uncritically thinking people you are trying to reach. If this group cannot formulate critical thought long enough to read a thread, do you think they can even grasp critical thought at all?reply to post by Nick_X

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
That sounds like a group of uncritically thinking people you are trying to reach. If this group cannot formulate critical thought long enough to read a thread, do you think they can even grasp critical thought at all?reply to post by Nick_X

 

Exactly. It is nearly pointless for this message to fall onto those who are already well developed philosophers, readers, listeners and well rounded critical thinkers. I'd rather have casual ATS entrants and new members receive this message.
It's not up to me to judge whether they are capable of grasping the message but typically things that are designed to be easier to understand (like a video), usually are.

reply to post by Nick_X


Funny thing is, the ones you are addressing will not watch the vid..
Why would they?

reply to post by Nick_X

There is a phenomenon on the internet called TLDR which I factored into my post (Too Long Didn't Read)

While I do not necessarily agree with hotbakedtater's analysis of your O.P., I agree even less with your reasoning as to why you chose to post a video rather than use your own writing skills to instruct on what critical thinking is.

Dumbing down instruction on critical thought is oxymoronic. Those who embrace the strategy of too long didn't read, are unlikely to come away with much from a video instructing them on critical thought. This is not to say that making the decision to not read something because of its length necessarily makes one dumb. But for those who employ this strategy regularly, they are no doubt missing out on an important part of thinking by relying on this strategy.

The unabridged version of Les Miserables looks like it is almost twice as thick as the abridged version. Can you imagine that? Close to half a novel edited down just to cater to people who don't like to read. Can you imagine that? Book publishers catering to people who don't like to read? Why would anyone think that it is better to read half of what an author wrote than all of it? Les Miserables didn't become the classic it became because publishers began abridging the book. The classic is not the abridged version, even if it "gets to the point" sooner.

Maybe people think that Victor Hugo's use of the French Revolution as a backdrop to Jean Val Jean's story was too indulgent, and while people are entitled to their opinions, in my not so humble opinion, using the French Revolution as a back drop to a story about a conflict between a good man who's past as a wretched thief by circumstance haunts him as he struggles to remain a good man, while another good man whose blind faith in arbitrary rules compels him to stray from the path of goodness is a stroke of genius.

The history lessons, coming from an author who wrote what he knew about, on the French Revolution are well worth reading, and are remarkable strands of texture added to the glorious tapestry that is Les Miserables, but for some, this book is "too long, didn't read" material. This doesn't preclude these people from becoming critical thinkers, but if they ignore a thread that makes the effort to instruct people on how to develop critical thinking skills simply because it is too long and so they didn't read it, that certainly precludes them from critical thinking, even if the thread offered a video instead of lengthy prose. Critical thinkers cannot escape reading tedious works. Critical thinking is a hard gig, just as is weight lifting. One cannot build muscle mass by watching a video, either brain muscle or any other muscle. It takes much more work than that.

ATS is just a microcosm of people who you meet in real-life.

Some people who you meet have excellent critical thinking skills, some aren't very good at it, while, probably, the majority fall somewhere in between.

I don't know why you'd expect ATS to be any different in this regard ?


By the way, as for your video ?

TLDW.

Ugghh.... not another one of these "I have a problem with certain ATS Members" threads

I don't think we need to rely on the PTB to steal our rights..... the populace is doing a mighty job themselves.
Critical thinking or not... each individual has a right to be heard, a right to respect and a right not to be dictated to, regardless of IQ.

i like other people to think for me, then i elaborate on wether i agreee with them or not.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Thank you for the reply Jean Peal.

Yes, perhaps my reference to TLDR phenomenon was not entirely appropriate to the subject of critical thinking, as critical thinking requires a process of complete absorption of information. My shortening of the OP and reference to a video instead of typing out the entire thesis was merely a way to make the subject matter more acceptable to a larger group of people, especially those who would be considering the topic for the very first time (there are a lot of teenagers on ATS you know).

Just the same way in education....one starts out with books made up completely of pictures....but by the time you enter university, most books have no pictures in them at all.

A video on the internet is one of the most basic, entry-level, forms of education available (on the internet). Thus I have chosen to provide such a medium as a platform for those entering this topic for the first time.

reply to post by Village Idiot

Critical thinking or not... each individual has a right to be heard, a right to respect and a right not to be dictated to, regardless of IQ.

People have the right to speak out, which doesn't mean they have the right to be heard, unless that right is in regards to government. They have the right to speech and to publish. That, of course, includes the O.P. People also have the right to be critical thinkers. That doesn't mean they have to exercise that right, but the certainly have the right be critical thinkers.

The "right" to respect is questionable. People who've actually earned respect have a hard enough time getting paid that respect, let alone those who haven't even earned it. It might be wise to offer people respect, unearned or not, although I think it might be best to offer compassion, but demanding that people have the right to respect is every bit as much a dictation as the supposed dictation your accusing the O.P. is guilty. Nick did not dictate to anyone but merely offered his opinion, and a hope that people would consider exercising more critical thought.

Originally posted by Village Idiot
Ugghh.... not another one of these "I have a problem with certain ATS Members" threads

I don't think we need to rely on the PTB to steal our rights..... the populace is doing a mighty job themselves.
Critical thinking or not... each individual has a right to be heard, a right to respect and a right not to be dictated to, regardless of IQ.

Very true, everyone has the right to say and do as they please within the agreed guidelines of the community they are taking part in. But where is the harm in me providing some basic education which has the potential to improve the community?

Just because people have the right to do something, doesn't mean they should regularly do it.

I have a quick question just because I am curious on the matter is Critical thinking the same as Criticism? Please, feel free to enlighten me I have often thought about the differences and similarities and am wondering what other people's thoughts are on the subject.

Originally posted by Nick_X

where is the harm in me providing some basic education which has the potential to improve the community?

Well I'm all for that..... anything to help me change my name!

I just don't support certain mentalities were others are belittled for not having the mental capability to offer sound input
By your wording, I read into your op as leaning towards that thought.... yes, a lack of critical thinking on my part.

OK..... I'll go watch the video now

reply to post by Golithion


Critical thinking is different than criticism. While it would be nice if criticism relied upon critical thinking as a part of its analysis, not all criticism does. Critical thinking, in its simplest form, is a decided judgment made by a reflection of, and an analysis of the data available. A critical thinker will not accept any assertion made on its face value, and will examine the assumptions that were made to come to the conclusion an assertion will offer, and will evaluate any evidence regarding the assertion, and look for hidden data, before making a conclusion regarding that assertion which was borne of independent thought.

There is no such thing as a master of critical thinking. It is an ongoing process of evaluation and understanding. One can improve their critical thinking skills with effort, but master it? Well, I don't know many critical thinkers that are willing to declare themselves master of the skill, nor are they willing to point to a master. We are inherently subjective beings, and critical thinking, to a large degree, requires objective thought, but is not exclusively objective. Intuition can play into critical thinking, but can only play its part. Ultimately, critical thinking is merely a tool to help a person make an informed decision, and like all tools, it is a poor craftsman who blames the quality of his work on his tools.