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Another Chemtrail Question

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posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 12:29 AM
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Not sure if I buy the ice crystal theory. I mean to a certain extent ok. But gravitys a bitch Ice is most certainly heavier than vapor, seems some days they hang out longer than others.




posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:23 AM
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The best information that I have found is related to something called "Deep Shield"

www.holmestead.ca...



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Yeah, great logic. Gigantic, sky-crossing grids only cause ice crystals on hot, sunny days. Windy days, never, but clear, hot days sure. Cold, partially cloudy days, no, but hot, dry, windless days are all about ice crystals.

How the hell can anyone tell what altitude? You can't, I can't...perhaps a surveyor could. Read the OP again, your explanation cannot account for all those ice crystals disappearing overnight, and from my perspective as well as neighbors, they appear lower than the air traffic passes at altitude.

Rinse, repeat. Jeez.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
Yeah, great logic. Gigantic, sky-crossing grids only cause ice crystals on hot, sunny days. Windy days, never, but clear, hot days sure.


And how can you tell how windy it is at 35,000 ft?


How the hell can anyone tell what altitude? You can't, I can't...perhaps a surveyor could.... they appear lower than the air traffic passes at altitude.


Funny, just that previous sentence you said no one can tell what altitude, or does that not include yourself?



Originally posted by smallblockchevy
Not sure if I buy the ice crystal theory. I mean to a certain extent ok. But gravitys a bitch Ice is most certainly heavier than vapor, seems some days they hang out longer than others.


Ice isn't heavier than vapour, because it forms straight from the vapour, and in small enough particles to be suspended in the air. It is denser than the vapour, sure, but in small enough particles it will be suspended in the fluid.
It is similar to, for instance, mix a load of sand into some water, and it will stay suspended in the water for a while. But a solid lump of rock will just drop to the bottom.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by apex
 


You must greatly enjoy having me repeat myself, almost as much as you folks like talking about ice. Show me video or photos of "ice crystals" forming a milky haze on a hot day over a concert or over a 100 degree race track from 1976. Read the OP and post something different or spare me the repetition.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by smallblockchevy
Not sure if I buy the ice crystal theory. I mean to a certain extent ok. But gravitys a bitch Ice is most certainly heavier than vapor, seems some days they hang out longer than others.


Ice crystals are not a theory, its reality.

Cirrus cloud are not a theory, its reality.

Jet engines putting out water that condenses and that can freeze, it not a theory either



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Not sure how many other ways I can agree with you.

What I saw cannot be contrails.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by firepilot
 


Not sure how many other ways I can agree with you.

What I saw cannot be contrails.



okay, how? And what would explain it? Be logical about your explanation and your assertion about how it cant be ice crystals.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Let me regurgitate my take on your logic.

Jets leave contrails, therefore everything I've seen must be a contrail.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by firepilot
 


Let me regurgitate my take on your logic.

Jets leave contrails, therefore everything I've seen must be a contrail.





Nice dodge, but I was asking for your logic.

I have already said mine - its extremely cold up there, jets have water in the exhaust, its condenses and in certain conditions it turns to cirrus.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by firepilot
 


Let me regurgitate my take on your logic.

Jets leave contrails, therefore everything I've seen must be a contrail.





Nice dodge, but I was asking for your logic.

I have already said mine - its extremely cold up there, jets have water in the exhaust, its condenses and in certain conditions it turns to cirrus.


Start reading, the story doesn't change.

So, my paraphrasing your position is pretty accurate. You are starting with a premise that jets leave contrails, therefore everything I've seen must be a contrail.

Is that not an accurate statement? I am aware you love to wallow in the minutiae but I'll direct you back to the OP. Again.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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"Nice dodge, but I was asking for your logic.

I have already said mine - its extremely cold up there, jets have water in the exhaust, its condenses and in certain conditions it turns to cirrus."


Exactly.

So when you're used to seeing those certain conditions manifest themselves as occasional persistent contrails, wouldn't you be alarmed if you saw heavy grid patterns, day after day, especially on hot, clear days (clear until the haze set in)?

And wouldn't you especially notice if those "certain conditions" which were there for a couple years in a row, suddenly stopped?

How is noticing something out of the ordinary considered illogical?


edit on 18-2-2011 by Yankee451 because: added quotes



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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You have several premises, that stem from chemmie websites.

There is no such thing as a "grid" when it comes to contrails. You will have contrails going N/S, and E/W, and diagonal to. The wind affects them all. OR, are you willing to step up and say there is no wind up high, and that trails are not being blown to the side? I bet you will either not answer, or be vague about it. CHemmies loves to assert grids but seem to get really quiet when it comes to wind.

Jets leaving contrails is not a premise, any more than water being made from hydrogen and water is a premise.
But for arguments sake...Tell us all which of these you disagree with.

1. That it is very cold at fligtht altitudes of jet aircraft.
2. That jets leave water as byproduct of combustio
3 Water can freeze and turn into cirrus ice crystals at those temps.

Tell us EXACTLY what you disagree with. No vagueness or talk of premises. And if you are going to assert that its much worse than 10 years ago, then I want proof. And if some chemmies here say its much worse than 5-10 years ago, why did the first chemtrail sites come out about 12 years ago? Were they psychic?



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot
You have several premises, that stem from chemmie websites.

There is no such thing as a "grid" when it comes to contrails. You will have contrails going N/S, and E/W, and diagonal to. The wind affects them all. OR, are you willing to step up and say there is no wind up high, and that trails are not being blown to the side? I bet you will either not answer, or be vague about it. CHemmies loves to assert grids but seem to get really quiet when it comes to wind.

Jets leaving contrails is not a premise, any more than water being made from hydrogen and water is a premise.
But for arguments sake...Tell us all which of these you disagree with.

1. That it is very cold at fligtht altitudes of jet aircraft.
2. That jets leave water as byproduct of combustio
3 Water can freeze and turn into cirrus ice crystals at those temps.

Tell us EXACTLY what you disagree with. No vagueness or talk of premises. And if you are going to assert that its much worse than 10 years ago, then I want proof. And if some chemmies here say its much worse than 5-10 years ago, why did the first chemtrail sites come out about 12 years ago? Were they psychic?



Good grief, now you're telling me what I have seen? Get over yourself. You want answers, fine.

1. Sure. it is always colder at altitude.
2. No disagreement.
3. Yes.

So what so planes leave contrails at altitude and under CERTAIN CONDITIONS they leave persistent contrails that SOMETIMES can form cirrus clouds.

Satisfied? What does that tell you? Logic tells me that when CERTAIN CONDITIONS are met for months on end, and year after year that something unusual is happening.

Don't try to tell me what I've seen man, your moniker implies you've got a clear stake in the official story line. That implies deep indoctrination.

Answer my questions now and stop being a freaking troll.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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An official story line? Science and aviation, are not official story lines And that being involved in aviation, now puts me under suspicion? Do you hold under suspicion, those who spread complete falsehoods in the name of chemtrails?

I would say its a "story line" that all of a sudden there is some massive increase in contrails. You wont find those who actually work in the air who notice those things, its those who see a chemtrail website and fall for all the nonsense.

If you like story lines, you should ask chemtrails who assert that metals and their compounds should not be found in the ground, or that alter photos of aircraft to spread their chemtrail religion.

Ever been suspicious of why so many chemtrail websites take photos and present them as something else?



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Ever notice how you keep changing the subject and trying to deflect?

True or false:

Jets leave contrails, therefore everything I have seen must be a contrail.

Answer me or take a hike.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


I'll paraphrase for you:

Since jets leave contrails that can sometimes form cirrus clouds when certain conditions are met, I became alarmed at what appeared to be deliberate spraying in patterns designed to create a sun-blocking haze over the sky. I observed this phenomenon over several years while working outside. I work outside a lot, and have for several decades, so I became alarmed at the evident change in contrail behavior. It was starting to block the sun on most of the sunny days. I am searching for photographic evidence from the previous century in my attempt to answer a question which has been categorically denied and obfuscated by military and government spokespeople.

See?

One premise, just not as simple, or as simplistic, or as ILLOGICAL as yours.


edit on 18-2-2011 by Yankee451 because: typo



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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As a professional pilot, I have not seen a change in contrails. And i would guess that you did not either, you just read a chemtrail website that told you so, and then you looked up and noticed something that you had not cared about before. Everything that chemmies promote as a "grid" completely falls to me as how aircraft are going all around the country.

How would you change how aircraft navigate in order to not leave such "grids"?

Here are a few tidbits. The skys are no different than 10 years ago to any major degree. The regional airlines use more jet aircraft than turboprops which would result in more contrails, but everything else is the same. Have you ever looked at an aircraft navigation chart for jets?

And the people who began promoting chemtrails, more than 10 years ago, all had things to sell. Whether it was Will Thomas, Len Horowitz, or Don Croft, all of them had designs to make money from it with things to sell. Why does that not raise anyone suspicions?

And why is it not suspicious when chemtrail promoters make entirely false claims regarding science, aircraft, weather? Chemmies lap it up without thinking, and then accuse everyone else who believes differently, as being government agents, shills, etc.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot
As a professional pilot, I have not seen a change in contrails. And i would guess that you did not either, you just read a chemtrail website that told you so, and then you looked up and noticed something that you had not cared about before. Everything that chemmies promote as a "grid" completely falls to me as how aircraft are going all around the country.

How would you change how aircraft navigate in order to not leave such "grids"?

Here are a few tidbits. The skys are no different than 10 years ago to any major degree. The regional airlines use more jet aircraft than turboprops which would result in more contrails, but everything else is the same. Have you ever looked at an aircraft navigation chart for jets?

And the people who began promoting chemtrails, more than 10 years ago, all had things to sell. Whether it was Will Thomas, Len Horowitz, or Don Croft, all of them had designs to make money from it with things to sell. Why does that not raise anyone suspicions?

And why is it not suspicious when chemtrail promoters make entirely false claims regarding science, aircraft, weather? Chemmies lap it up without thinking, and then accuse everyone else who believes differently, as being government agents, shills, etc.






Why do you not answer my questions? I was courteous enough to answer yours.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:51 PM
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You are not posting clear questions, so I am not quite sure what to answer. You are posting a lot of unconnected statements and observations, but without evidence and information.

yes, contrails can make grids. Thats not a sign of spraying, because no real spraying does anything in grids. Road systems make grids though. Have you ever looked at an aircraft nav chart?

I have not seen actual evidence of such a change in the skys, and the only people who have apparently seen such a change have either read chemtrail sites, or are selling things to chemtrailers. People who actually watch the skies for a living, have not seen any such thing.

And yes, for months, some times its better for contrails to persist (winter), and sometimes its less favorable (summer). But multiple times, people here have posted where to get weather balloon data, and also how to plug it into an online chart to figure out if it iwas good for contrails or not.

But here is one last request.

Go to Skyvector.com Click on charts, then Enroute high.



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