2 arrested in Ohio student's shooting death

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I don't think anyone disagrees that either of these events were tragic. My only argument is what good would making guns illegal do? It is already illegal to shoot someone!

Some people apparently think making guns illegal in the US will make them harder to come by. Which is true... but only for law-abiding citizens.

Apparently Chicago has a pistol ban and one of the worst homicide rates in the country. I've heard Mexico has gun bans too and we all see how well that's working down there.

I just want to clarify, (As...usual...)

My OPINION is that the GOVERNMENT is directing energy and effort into the issue of public-firearms.

My reason for this is the numerous incredible, and some in-credible reports making the top stories in the last half-year, not to mention articles, discussion, and topics surrounding and blatantly obviously targetting the constitution; making guns look like what they are...incredibly dangerous tools ...they aren't good or evil... when in the wrong hands, which seems to be VERY easy (by the reports!) can lead to devastating consequences for all.

Mark my words gentlemen.

Now, return to your ignorance of the fact that this is my opinion & continue on with making hasty southern-style arguements about why you need your guns n' ammo

PS... to the poster of the comment something to the effect of 'my uncle was stabbed with a fork, can't wait until forks are outlawed' ...

Complete idiocy. I could kill you with one of my guitar strings. Or a shoe, likely anything...given a little creativity & time.

Guns are designed so that you squeeze & cause devastation. Anyone can use it, it is very easy, and the results are instant, permanent, and most often regretted.

Originally posted by MavRck


Good evening.

'Another one.' (TOP CNN story, whilst the world's simultaneous deconstruction occurs)

I have a feeling... that until that ammendment (you know the one) is abolished, or intensively altered... we will see more and more 'random shootings'; Some,(will seem at least) not so 'random'.

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

How can people attribute every senseless cold blooded act of murder to some government conspiracy. How cynical, heartless, and moronic.

reply to post by TheRedneck


I didn't say anything towards gun control. I'm against it myself. Criminals don't register their guns including those in the gov.

Originally posted by FarArcher
I further pointed out that the opinions of foreigners - especially other ball-less English speaking nations with a lineage of being subjects - do not matter to us.

Is it now considered 'ball-less' to have exponentially less incidence of gun crime than you do?

Now you want to bring up our idiotic voters who coincidentally happen to be financial and social parasites?

Those 'idiotic voters' happen to be your fellow Americans. If you don't like what's being handed to you, then harangue your representatives, or run against them. Talk is cheap. Shooting at a problem is cheaper.

You have a culture of guns...yes, you are going to have more gun crime and it has nothing to do with 'balls'. In fact, it doesn't take balls to fix a problem by hauling off and shooting at it. You might consider Iraq as the ultimate example of that.

I just don't understand why people who don't even live in this country have such a problem with our guns or gun laws. Guns in America don't kill nearly as many people as guns in Mexico, not even anywhere close, but I dont see anyone harping on that.

You don't live in the country so WTH is your problem? Harp on our tyrannical Government if you want, but leave our rights alone already. Like our government, if people would mind their own business and keep their noses inside their own countries, then maybe we could all finally get along....

Originally posted by kennylee
I just don't understand why people who don't even live in this country have such a problem with our guns or gun laws. Guns in America don't kill nearly as many people as guns in Mexico, not even anywhere close, but I dont see anyone harping on that.

You don't live in the country so WTH is your problem? Harp on our tyrannical Government if you want, but leave our rights alone already. Like our government, if people would mind their own business and keep their noses inside their own countries, then maybe we could all finally get along....

Well, it's like I said to the last guy that said that...

Sorry...international forum, you're gonna get international response. If that makes you uncomfortable, you can always hang out here...home.nra.org...

reply to post by MavRck


There are 307million Americans. Out of those 307 million there are roughly 170 million adults of age to carry guns, out of those 170 million of age adults roughly 160 million are legally eligible to carry firearms, the rest have been barred from doing so for criminal reasons, setting them aside, out of 160 million eligible adults, only about 80 million actually own guns of any type.

80 million people in this country own guns.

Out of the 10 million ineligible people 2 million are incarcerated 8 million have a criminal or mental health record barring them from legally owning firearms.

Gun control laws would affect 8 million people according to anti-gunners.

When in fact, the only people who would care about the law is the 80 million eligible gun owners. 80 million people would have their RIGHTS RESTRICTED due to less than 2% of the population....Yeah that sounds fair.

Less than 2% of the population are actual criminals. Which means in a country of 307 million people violent crime with a gun, although sensationalized by the media, does not happen as often as one would like to think to make their case to removed our Second Amendment.

Sweden and Finland both have very avid gun cultures, they're even allowed to own selective fire weapons(if you even know what that is) and they don't seem to have much crime...It's not the guns, it's people.


We have bad education problems in this country, we have a me first culture as well that has taken the sense of value of humanity out of many people, we have bad economic policies, and crap parents to boot.

The issue isn't the damned guns. Trying to blame an inanimate object is taking the easy road.

More guns equal more crime? Not in 2009, FBI crime report shows.

FBI's latest crime report, for the first half of 2009, shows America is a less violent place even though ownership of guns has surged. Deterrent effect may have a role, but others see no correlation.

The oft-cited credo that more guns equal more crime is being tested by facts on the ground this year: Even as gun ownership has surged in the US in the past year, violent crime, including murder and robbery, has dropped steeply.

Add to that the fact that many experts had predicted higher crime rates as the US grinds through a difficult recession, and the discrepancy has advocates on both sides of the Second Amendment debate rushing to their ramparts.

After several years of crime rates holding relatively steady, the FBI is reporting that violent crimes – including gun crimes – dropped dramatically in the first six months of 2009, with murder down 10 percent across the US as a whole.

What happened the first 6 months of 2009? Even I predicted a sharp increase in crime due to the economic down turn...What Gives?

Obama election triggers national gun rush

Post-election gun rush

Dallas, Texas, gun shop owner DeWayne Irwin said the election, combined with an unstable economy, triggered a firearms dash at his store.

"People are terrified of losing their right to protect themselves," Irwin told the Tribune. "The volume is 10 times what we ever expected. It started with assault rifles, but at this point people are buying ammunition, high-capacity magazines, Glocks – it's all flying off the shelf. With the economy the way it is, people are worried about instability. They are scared of civil unrest."

Likewise, Manassas, Va., gun store owner Bernie Conatser told CNN firearm sales have almost tripled at his shop.

"I have been in business for 12 years, and I was here for Y2K, September 11, Katrina," Conatser said. "And all of those were big events, and we did notice a spike in business, but nothing on the order of what we are seeing right now."

Managers at a shooting center in Houston reported selling out of assault weapons the day after Obama was elected. It now has a month-long waiting list for weapons costing more than $1,000 each.

Colorado and Illinois are also reporting record sales. Zion, Ill., gun store owner Jerry Bricco said Obama's gun policies have his customers worried.

"We've had a lot of people concerned because our president-elect is extremely anti-gun and so is his running mate," Bricco told the Tribune. "They're afraid of future gun bans and what you will be allowed to get."

Millions of Americans have bought millions of guns since Obama's election and the Great Gun Rush is NOT over yet. Gun sales are still going through the roof...So this means my 80 million number may actually be higher.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Sweden and Finland both have very avid gun cultures, they're even allowed to own selective fire weapons(if you even know what that is)...

I don't think talking down to others in the discussion is a valuable means of discourse.

Originally posted by MavRck
reply to post by projectvxn

 

Rofl... In efforts to conserve time and space... I will respond to both posters whom directed comments.

Firstly, the 'right to b. arms' in the constitution.

Secondly, it's not "me" that's coming for them

(just thought of something, you made a spectacular point... in which you both a) contradicted yourself and b) promoted the cause you're against.

How you might ask?

If Americans are always packin' and they hold on to that constitution like it's their last morcel of food stranded on a desert island... where was the defense of this man? This man that was shot in the back of the head, then 'multiple times' to the lower body?

And the 11 bystanders?

The right is there, yet ... no defense? No defense for the victims of JLL, or the last several dozen shootings in this year?

Thank you good sir.

Thank you.

edit on 6-2-2011 by MavRck because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-2-2011 by MavRck because: (no reason given)

Americans also have a right not to be armed. How is that a contradiction?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Most anti-gunners have no idea what it is they want to ban...

Point taken though...but it always helps to know what you're talking about.

blah blah blah.... 'how dare I present every gun story as a conspiracy' etc...

Quite simply, media is all controlled by the same small select group of elite. (yes, it is)

The FOCUS shifts upon certain subjects for certain reasons.

There are likely brutal shootings every single day if not every few minutes... who knows...

The essence of my statement was that the media is presenting them as extremely dangerous lately, and it is my opinion and forecast that the right to have them in some way or another will be at the very least targetted.

reply to post by MavRck


Guns are used more than 1.5 million times a year defensively. The majority of the incidents end with out a single shot being fired. That is why they don't get reported in the news. The old maxim in the news business is, "if it bleeds it leads."

The average defensive use of a gun doesn't encite passion or come with months of follow up articles. It reads a lot like this:
"An unruly man tried to rob plumber Joe Smith. Joe pulled out his Taurus 856 and warned off the robber. The robber was last seen fleeing east on main street."

Do some research on guns and find out the truth. I will even provide a link to the Armed Citizen blog and archives. Armed Citizen

A look at the 2000 Criminal Victimization Survey shows that 550 rapes were prevented everyday by the use or presence of a gun. More than 6,000 murders and violent crimes were prevented everday by the use or presence of a gun.

Then how could we hardly forget that America's crime rate has dropped for more than two decades while gun laws have loosened across the country. According to the FBI's own numbers the crime rate for the first half of 2010 showed a 5% drop in crime nation wide. The only areas that noticed an increased were in the North Eastern United States. The thing that sets the North East apart from the rest of the country is a tendency torwards more restrictive gun laws. While the North Eastern states keep tightening their gun laws crime keeps climbing.

In 2008 NYC saw a reduction in gun murders. However the murder rate increased because people started using knifes and other means. More than 80% of the decrease in murders with guns was offset by murders with knives.

I really wish this non sense would end, or people would at least take time to get educated.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


It might be an international forum but I dont sit here and say what other countries should do or not do. I talk about my own country. Thats the problem in the world today. Everybody wants to be in everybody elses business instead of taking care of their own affairs. You who say that America should ban guns and dont even live here make me really sick. If I really told you how I feel then I would probably be banned from ATS........

reply to post by disfugured


Sorry I misunderstood what you were getting at. I'm guessing numerology can be invoked in many events not just these shootings!

Zindo

Originally posted by kennylee
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

It might be an international forum but I dont sit here and say what other countries should do or not do. I talk about my own country. Thats the problem in the world today. Everybody wants to be in everybody elses business instead of taking care of their own affairs. You who say that America should ban guns and dont even live here make me really sick. If I really told you how I feel then I would probably be banned from ATS........

Show me where I said you should ban guns.
Again...show me where I said you should ban guns!

What I said was that if you post in an international forum, you can expect international response. Sorry if you have a problem with that, but if you can''t take the heat...

Thats the problem in the world today. Everybody wants to be in everybody elses business instead of taking care of their own affairs

I donno...sounds like American foreign policy to me.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with you on this point and only this point...

At no point did you say we have to ban guns...but you did imply that as long as guns are in our culture that gun crime would continue to increase...my post addressed that assertion. The one where you ignored everything but that quip that both you and I can agree was bad form on my part..


Speaking to all parties not just Mr. Canuck:
I'd really like us all to get on topic before other mods have to step in and ruin the fun...


Can we do that?

Originally posted by projectvxn
Speaking to all parties not just Mr. Canuck:
I'd really like us all to get on topic before other mods have to step in and ruin the fun...

Can we do that?

Certainly we can do that...and yes, one should know about what guns present a problem. We have lots of legal guns up here, but not the amount of gun crime per capita, and it comes of a different culture. And you will have to get used to an amount of tragedy that is regarded as disproportionate by countries with more control over guns.
Scenarios like this thread topic are the price you pay. If that's ok with you...then it is nobody else's business.

But in a forum such as this...people will talk

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Also by countries with more people.

Canada has a population of what, 30, 40 million? We have 300 million.

For a country with lax gun laws like ours, I happen to think we're doing pretty good...Just remember that our media lives by the "if it bleeds it leads" maxim, and they will blow anything out of proportion if they think they can get more advertising out of it, damn the rights of the people in the process.

In many ways our media, with all their dishonesty has lead to a lot of misinformation concerning guns and gun ownership in the US. Some people actually think the whole damn country is a war zone and I couldn't tell them otherwise because our media is so irresponsible.

By the same token, the media will under report or tone down the most important issues and sidelining them for the sensationalist BS. So we focus on banning guns than the broken education system..Or we ban salt instead of taking responsibility for our kids diet.

The problem in this country is our priorities, not what we defend ourselves with, what we eat or even the slanted media we watch.

Since Canada implemented gun control.. I have yet to see one criminal step up and register his/her firearm. Gun control is a bunch of BS. If a person has the intent of killing somebody, that person is not gonna care what law is implemented. All this registration does is empower the criminals and big government. Canada's gun control is a complete joke!