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Originally posted by MajorCee
Did you watch the video Major no stars ?
Probably not .
You are on the wrong forum , here we don't take kindly to abuse of innocents . innocents till proven guilty .
For someone who actually went through torture, and can
testify, first hand what torture is you should look
at Colonel Bud Day.
I don't need to. I can look at American precedent. Anyway, our
conversation is through. As I said, I'm not about to change your
mind and seeing that your rants don't amount to discourse...I
don't bother reading them.
However...that shouldn't stop me from contributing to the rest
of the thread, right? Happy Trails.
I don't bother reading them.
Originally posted by MajorCee
If you want to make an argument, you really have to define what is torture. I did, why
I must have missed your definition. (about what torture is)
Good cop bad cop does not apply 'mental pressure.' It's a trick. It is not torture and nobody calls it torture. You are putting words in people's mouths.
Of course, if you are a nitwit, then you can say that hard mental
stress is torture, and Obama as stated by Col Bud Day seems to
subscribe to the belief that water boarding is torture. In essence
though Obama has also declared that almost all the police forces
in the US use torture, since they also use "good cop, bad cop" as
a standard means, and this is nothing but mental stress. It has
never been taken to be torture, in the past by anyone with any brains.
Some facts I have encountered through actual conversation
with former POW and interegators is that the US soldiers
actually have been tortured as a matter of course in
number of wars. On the other hand US interegators took
a different ploy on getting information. US tactics
use deception and bluff, and this was something to expect
from an enemy also, but you only got this from them
if they were civilized, and many of our enemies were
not very civilized.
Even water boarding our most extreme interogation was only
used on three prisoners, and most experts on the subject
believe it was just mental stress, not physical torture.
You put the cloth over the prisoners head and pour water
on it blocking the free flow of air to the point that
the guy thinks he is drowning. He is not, but he thinks he
is, so he talks. You could do something similar by
putting a garter snake up to his neck and telling him
it was a black mamba and he is going to bite you if
you don't talk. Extreme mental pressure, but no physical
damage imparted to detract from long and successful
life afterward with full body function and no physical
pain or damage.
Our interrogators would use mental pressure, and anguish.
We might have a couple prisoners waiting to be interrogated,
setting beside each other waiting to go into the interrogation
chamber. Guards come out and take the first prisoner in.
This first prisoner is actually a plant, not a real prisoner.
Then you hear from the interrogation room, some beating and
screaming and this goes on for awhile. Then the first
prisoner is taken out on a stretcher. Then the second
prisoner is taken in and interrogated. This is just one
of many tricks that can be used without actual physical
torture. There are many more.
Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
Another innocent put through hell, robbed of dignity and life under the guise of American justice.
If your government will find a way to legally do this to non-US citizens, it is only a matter of time before they find a way to legally treat their own in the same manner.
Originally posted by MajorCee
water boarding is actually a mental process.
- Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/NYU Program for Survivors of Torture Waterboarding - Wikipedia
As the prisoner gags and chokes, the terror of imminent death is pervasive, with all of the physiologic and psychological responses expected, including an intense stress response, manifested by tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and gasping for breath. There is a real risk of death from actually drowning or suffering a heart attack or damage to the lungs from inhalation of water. Long term effects include panic attacks, depression and PTSD.
Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by MajorCee
I think that waterboarding is worse than mere intimidation and trickery because it produces the sensation of drowning. It doesn't just make someone *think* that they're drowning, it produces the same physical and psychological responses as actual drowning.
I am intrigued at what your personal definition of torture really is
your definition of torture. Anything else you feel like sharing
is just a bonus.
The comparison of water boarding to Good Cop/Bad Cop is disingenuous
- there is no physical force applied to the mark with this
Like I said...they hanged Japanese for waterboarding Americans
in WW2. Seems to explain everything that needs to be said
basically torture to me is damaging physical pressure or pain applied
Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by v1rtu0s0
It is shameful and never should have happened. That is what you get from this idiocy when you bring these folks home as "criminals". They should have had military tribunals in the field, where these folks were caught and either executed them on site or released them.
Obviously the problem with the current model is three fold. One that a high percentage of these folks return to terrorism when they are released, two that no other countries wants these folks and three the very nature of their capture exludes chain of custody of evidence so they would likely win in a civil court.
there may have only been 3 people at Gitmo who received
waterboarding, but between there were over 266 sessions
of waterboarding split between the three of them
It is shameful and never should have happened. That is what
you get from this idiocy when you bring these folks home as
"criminals". They should have had military tribunals in the
field, where these folks were caught and either executed them
on site or released them.
You don't get it, do you? Most of them weren't 'captured' in 'the fi
Its absolutely disgusting. Why aren't they getting trials? How can
can anybody be arrested and detained for nothing?
In all 9 years of serving time at gitmo, Awal Gul was never even
charged with a crime, let alone found guilty.
So yes, that means he was innocent.