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Originally posted by miriam0566
ok so besides the smart advice, the prophecies, the historical accuracy, scientific accuracy, literary harmony, the aqueduct, the wine, the public security, minsen, public sanitation and overall better public heath... what have the romans ever done for us!
No it's called the worship of God. You try to make yourself sound so smartass behind a damn computer, but you completely reject the good that comes out of Gods church, but only the hypocrites. Because the hypocrites give you guys an easy escape to deny him further..
Originally posted by americandingbat
Not that it's any of my business, but aren't there better threads to continue this argument in? The question here is why people are told not to eat pork, not the Bible's usefulness as a historical document.
Originally posted by RANT[/]
Try this. See what your Cat will eat. Mine (who just passed) ate ANYTHING but pork. She knew ham/bacon/hot dog/sausage/tenderloin/BBQ from turkey, steak, chicken, hamburger or tuna a mile a way. It's creepy when a pet that begs for anything, runs when you eat pork. She'd rather eat spiders.
Originally posted by karl 12
The bible is literaly spilling over with erroneus factual innacuracies and spurious declarations-not to mention hysterically unhinged socipoathic and homicidal instruction for it's cult members.
Ah yes ,prophecy-people in robes making stuff up -very good.
I nearly choked on my cornflakes when I read this one-if anything the bible is one of the most innacurate historical fables of all time.
As for the church, it has done it's utmost to harrass,impede and antagonise the progress of rational free enquiry down the years with regard to Earth's beginnings and historical geology.
What about all the glaring contradictions,blatant paradoxes and factual discrepencies-maybe this is what happens when lots of different humans take lots of years to compile a book.
Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
you are so far from a dingbat
All religions have a tendency to feature some dietary injunction or prohibition, whether it is the now lapsed Catholic injunction to eat fish on Fridays, or the adoration by Hindus of the cow as a consecrated and invulnerable animal (the government of India even offered to import and protect all the cattle facing slaughter as a result of the bovine encephalitic, or "mad cow," plague that swept Europe in the 1990s), or the refusal by some other Eastern cults to consume any animal flesh, or to injure any other creature be it rat or flea. But the oldest and most tenacious of all fetishes is the hatred and even fear of the pig. It emerged in primitive Judaea, and was for centuries one of the ways -- the other being circumcision-- by which Jews could be distinguished.
Even though sura 5:60 of the Koran condemns particularly Jews but also other unbelievers as having been turned into pigs and monkeys -- a very intense theme in recent Salafist Muslim preaching-- and the Koran describes the flesh of swine as unclean or even "abominable," Muslims appear to see nothing ironic in the adoption of this uniquely Jewish taboo. Real horror of the porcine is manifest all over the Islamic world. One good instance would be the continued prohibition of George Orwell's Animal Farm, one of the most charming and useful fables of modern times, of the reading of which Muslim schoolchildren are deprived. I have perused some of the solemn prohibition orders written by Arab education ministries, which are so stupid that they fail to notice the evil and dictatorial role played by the pigs in the story itself.
Orwell actually did dislike pigs, as a consequence of his failure as a small farmer, and this revulsion is shared by many adults who have had to work with these difficult animals in agricultural conditions. Crammed together in sties, pigs tend to act swinishly, as it were, and to have noisy and nasty fights. It is not unknown for them to eat their own young and even their own excrement, while their tendency to random and loose gallantry is often painful to the more fastidious eye. But it has often been noticed that pigs left to their own devices, and granted sufficient space, will keep themselves very clean, arrange little bowers, bring up families and engage in social interaction with other pigs. The creatures also display many signs of intelligence, and it has been calculated that the crucial ratio -- between brain weight and body weight -- is almost as high with them as it is in dolphins. There is great adaptability between the pig and its environment, as witness wild boars and "feral pigs" as opposed to the placid porkers and frisky piglets of our more immediate experience.
It would be merely boring and idiotic to wonder how the designer of all things conceived such a versatile creature and then commanded his highermammal creation to avoid it altogether or risk his eternal displeasure. But many otherwise intelligent mammals affect the belief that Heaven hates ham.
I hope that you have guessed by now what we know in any case -- that this fine beast is one of our fairly close cousins. It shares a great deal of our DNA, and there have lately been welcome transplants of skin, heart valves and kidneys from pigs to humans. If -- which I heartily trust does not happen -- a new Dr. Moreau could corrupt recent advances in cloning and create a hybrid, a "pig-man" is widely feared as the most probable outcome. Meanwhile, almost everything about the pig is useful, from its nutritious and delicious meat to its tanned hide for leather and its bristles for brushes. In Upton Sinclair's graphic novel of the Chicago slaughterhouse, The Jungle, it is agonizing to read about the way that pigs are borne aloft on hooks, screaming as their throats are cut. Even the strongest nerves of the most hardened workers are shaken by the experience. There is something about that shriek ...
To press this a little further, one may note that children if left unmolested by rabbis and imams are very drawn to pigs, especially to baby ones, and that firefighters in general do not like to eat roast pork or crackling. The barbaric vernacular word for roasted human in New Guinea and elsewhere was "long pig": I have never had the relevant degustative experience myself, but it seems that we do, if eaten, taste very much like pigs.
This helps to make nonsense of the usual "secular" explanations of the original Jewish prohibition. It is argued that the ban was initially rational, since pig meat in hot climates can become rank and develop the worms of trichinosis. This objection -- which perhaps does apply in the case of non-kosher shellfish -- is absurd when applied to the actual conditions. First, trichinosis is found in all climates, and in fact occurs more in cold than in hot ones. Second, ancient Jewish settlements in the land of Canaan can easily be distinguished by archaeologists by the absence of pig bones in their rubbish tips, as opposed to the presence of such bones in the middens of other communities. The non-Jews did not sicken and die from eating pork, in other words. (Quite apart from anything else, if they had died for this reason there would have been no need for the god of Moses to urge their slaughter by non-pig-eaters.)
There must therefore be another answer to the conundrum. I claim my own solution as original, though without the help of Sir James Frazer and the great Ibn Warraq I might not have hit upon it.
According to many ancient authorities, the attitude of early Semites to swine was one of reverence as much as disgust. The eating of pig flesh was considered as something special, even privileged and ritualistic. (This mad confusion between the sacred and the profane is found in all faiths at all times.) The simultaneous attraction and repulsion derived from an anthropomorphic root: The look of the pig, and the taste of the pig, and the dying yells of the pig, and the evident intelligence of the pig, were too uncomfortably reminiscent of the human.
Porcophobia -- and porcophilia -- thus probably originate in a nighttime of human sacrifice and even cannibalism at which the "holy" texts often do more than hint. Nothing optional -- from homosexuality to adultery -- is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate. As Shakespeare put it in King Lear, the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offence for which he plies the lash.
Porcophilia can also be used for oppressive and repressive purposes. In medieval Spain, where Jews and Muslims were compelled on pain of death and torture to convert to Christianity, the religious authorities quite rightly suspected that many of the conversions were not sincere. Indeed, the Inquisition arose partly from the holy dread that secret infidels were attending Mass -- where of course, and even more disgustingly, they were pretending to eat human flesh and drink human blood, in the person of Christ himself. Among the customs that arose in consequence was the offering, at most events formal and informal, of a plate of charcuterie. Those who have been fortunate enough to visit Spain, or any good Spanish restaurant, will be familiar with the gesture of hospitality: literally dozens of pieces of differently cured, differently sliced pig. But the grim origin of this lies in a constant effort to sniff out heresy, and to be unsmilingly watchful for giveaway expressions of distaste. In the hands of eager Christian fanatics, even the toothsome jamon Iberico could be pressed into service as a form of torture.
Today, ancient stupidity is upon us again. Muslim zealots in Europe are demanding that the Three Little Pigs, and Miss Piggy, Winnie-the-Pooh's Piglet and other traditional pets and characters be removed from the innocent gaze of their children. The mirthless cretins of jihad have probably not read enough to know of the Empress of Blandings, and of the Earl of Emsworth's infinitely renewable delight in the splendid pages of the incomparable author Mr. Whiffle, The Care of the Pig, but there will be trouble when they get that far. An old statue of a wild boar, in an arboretum in Middle England, has already been threatened with mindless Islamic vandalism.
In microcosm, this apparently trivial fetish shows how religion and faith and superstition distort our whole picture of the world. The pig is so close to us, and has been so handy to us in so many respects, that a strong case is now made by humanists that it should not be factory-farmed, confined, separated from its young and forced to live in its own ordure. All other considerations to one side, the resulting pink and spongy meat is somewhat rebarbative. But this is a decision that we can make in the plain light of reason and compassion, as extended to fellow creatures and relatives, and not as a result of incantations from Iron Age campfires where much worse offences were celebrated in the name of God. "Pig's head on a stick," says the nervous but stouthearted Ralph in the face of the buzzing, suppurating idol (first killed and then worshipped) that has been set up by cruel, frightened schoolboys in Lord of the Flies. "Pig's head on a stick."
And he was more right than he could have known, and much wiser than his elders as well as his delinquent juniors.
"I took a big swallow of wine, a helping of rice, and thoughtfully ate half the steak. And as I ate, I knew with increasing certainty what it was like. It was like good, fully developed veal, not young, but not yet beef. It was very definitely like that, and it was not like any other meat I had ever tasted. It was so nearly like good, fully developed veal that I think no person with a palate of ordinary, normal sensitiveness could distinguish it from veal. It was mild, good meat with no other sharply defined or highly characteristic taste such as for instance, goat, high game, and pork have. The steak was slightly tougher than prime veal, a little stringy, but not too tough or stringy to be agreeably edible. The roast, from which I cut and ate a central slice, was tender, and in color, texture, smell as well as taste, strengthened my certainty that of all the meats we habitually know, veal is the one meat to which this meat is accurately comparable. As for any other special taste or odor of a sort which would be surprising and make a person who had tasted it not knowing exclaim, 'What is this?' it had absolutely none. And as for the 'long pig' legend, repeated in a thousand stories and recopied in a hundred books, it was totally, completely false.
my brother came to visit this past week, and he brought one of the dishes that they love to make in his firehouse in seattle. it is a recipe for pulled pork. that name - so short and sweet - does not even begin to touch the deliciousness of the dish. he got the recipe from one of his crew members, and everyone who's had it, loves it. he claims that there are never any leftovers (firefighters are always hungry!).
Moving on, Esmail Zanjani, a University of Nevada researcher, has created chimeras by injecting human bone marrow stem cells into a developing sheep fetus. Approximatel/y 15% of the fully grown sheep's body was made of human cells.
Regions of introns 2, 3, 10, 17a, 18, and 21 and 3' flanking sequence corresponding to human CFTR DNase I hypersensitive sites (DHS) showed high homology in the cow and pig. Cross-species sequence conservation also enabled finer mapping of other human DHS, including those in introns 1, 16, and 20. Additional potential regulatory elements not associated with human DHS were also identified.
“I’ve looked at your film Adam,” Dr. Trento said as he sat down in his leather chair, “You definitely need a new valve.” He continued, “Now you have some options. You can select a pig valve. You can select a cow valve. You can select an artificial or mechanical valve. Or, you can opt for your own valve using the Ross Procedure.”
Originally posted by americandingbat
Carrot gave a really good, succinct, persuasive account of one of the big reasons that modern vegetarians within meat-eating cultures give to avoid pork: the egregious conditions of industrial farming. This includes the pharmaceutics and other chemicals that livestock are fed as well as what goes into their feed to provide them nutrition, and the squalor and cruelty demonstrated on huge for-profit farms.
Why shouldn't we eat pork?
1) the Carrot explanation – because pigs are fed disgusting stuff on modern farms. But this really applies to all meats, not just pork.
2) the nutritionist's explanation – they're high in fat and many forms are high in salt. Again, this really applies to all meat.
3) there is something peculiar to pork that interferes with human spiritual energy – this is what I'd love to hear a response to, if anyone out there knows?